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I'm not too good at wording my ideas but I'll give it a shot...
It almost seems that the amount of money that people earn on average just simply isn't being publisized enough, or the South Korean community just is blissfully ignorant.
The interview and the comments I have been reading on this post suggest that every man and his dog would happily sign up to be a programmer if they had the oppertunity. Almost in the same fashion that in Western Cultures people would become professional sports men/women if they had the talent. (Except that the majority of these fantasys come with the promise of money and respect.)
This sort of popularity causes the employer to do what ever they like in terms of salary, because they know that there will instantly be another face to replace for the same or less price.
But the main difference between this phenomina and professional sporting is that there just isn't enough money/players needed, for that sort of system to work.
You don't need big stadiums to play starcraft, you don't need a full team of 12 players either. It seems that Starcraft has been set up as a much bigger event than it actually is. There just isn't enough money surrounding it AT THE MOMENT for this sort of system to work.
I believe that the better way to go about this sort of event would be to set it up in a way similar to that of... tennis or golf? Single players, practising and working alone with personal sponsors to hone their skills and metagame to win for themselves.
It just seems that instead of trying to build up a solid ground work in which Esports can carefully, fairly and successfully launch, we've tried to just start huge and expect all the little things to fall into place. I just think we've rushed into things with not enough money to support it.
Ahh I'm terrible at wording things and I might try rearticulating this post again but shorter and more precise later, but I just think that they've tried to make gaming into something which it isn't (yet) and the people who are falling into it are suffering because of the idea of stardom.
Obviously for the select few there is a lot money in it, but is it worth the gruelling of what seems like so many young naive lives.
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Hearing about the lower ranking players wages, I kinda feel bad for them. Forgive and forget Koreans and start paying up Kespa. Don't be cheap.
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This is immoral. It's always embarrassing to act in a corrupt way, but taking a look at the system, I mean, sAviOr has no way to feel guilty. I wouldn't for sure.
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Won't be watching any more Kepsa organised SC. Pretty shameful way to treat young teenagers. Yes there are worse things going on in the world, but casual exploitation of minors still shouldn't be accepted. Casts a shadow on everyone involved with it and it's promotion, team managers, casters, fansites.
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There's not enough money in sc to go around but it doesn't excuse players for fixing games.
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On May 22 2010 00:57 InFdude wrote:
But without Kespa we'd have what we have in other countries --> nothing .
Er Progaming in Korea was around before Kespa was...
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Perhaps Blizzard is correct in denying KeSPA's claims and thereby forcing a change into the future of pro-gaming; the scene will explode internationally (no longer limited to Korea) and create better environments for the players.
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Right now the major problem with video games is that they simply don't last. The popular video game of the day changes from year to year and the fanbase doesn't always carry over to each game. Pro-gamers are more often than not, not actually "pro-gamers", but "pro-Starcraft players" or "pro-Counterstrike players". Because they are highly specialized and there's no guarantee that their skills will fully carry over into the next games (even if they're of the same genre), you really don't have too many lasting stars in this sport. Since everything about pro-gaming in general from the actual games played to the stars and teams are so temporary, it's nearly impossible to build the type of fanbase and infrastructure that would be required to turn it into a decent life pursuit for people.
For most of these corporations, pro-gaming is not a long-term investment because of its volatile nature and there's relatively little money to be made in it after costs. Do you think massive amounts of people would pay tickets to go watch pro-gaming matches? Do you think there's a huge market for pro-gaming memorabilia? There really isn't. If you look at the Korean pro-gaming scene, which is probably the most established scene in the world at the moment, where do you see the actual profits coming from? The sources of profit are pretty limited. Korean pro-gaming survives right now BECAUSE costs are kept to a minimum as they are.
Also, no matter how you look at it, the gaming community is not a professional culture. It's a culture of youth and it's seen primarily as a source of personal entertainment rather than a meaningful pursuit. This perception needs to change before pro-gaming can really rise to some level of real professionalism and status. Unfortunately, I highly doubt it will happen.
Considering the fact that even an established sport like baseball has minor leaguers really getting crap for their work, how much more can you possibly expect from a sport where even the top level isn't really established?
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Thank you for this article! I'm very interested in some outside perspective on progaming. I hope this incident shines light on gaming in Korea. What my heart tells me is that there will be a small tremor of debate -- mostly negative, about the gamers -- and it will just go on as it always has. For me the saddest and most memorable line of the article was that adults profit from the broken dreams and slavery of the next generation. How sad.
Thanks again.
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Thanks for the translation.
After reading the comments it seems most people realize this is a completely unfair situation for the gamers, but some of the other attitudes seem to be based in pure naivety. People saying things like KeSPA doesn't make any money off the games, and that the gamers don't provide a service to society are purely ignorant of how this thing actually works.
It's an advertising agency. Those who work for advertising agencies earn some of the highest salaries of anyone traditionally, because the service they provide is recognition and it is invaluable to all businesses. There's a reason companies pay a designer millions to make a simple logo. There's a reason they pay millions to have that logo on a big board on the side of a highway. And there is definitely a reason they've created progaming and continue to fund it. It isn't because they enjoy destroying lives and watching people suffer, it isn't because their CEOs are big fans of StarCraft (at least not purely, I won't say they aren't!), it's because it's worth it to their business to have their name out there. That's why it's called sponsorship. Sponsor. AKA advertiser.
They are making huge bank off of the whole thing, or they wouldn't be doing it at all. They want to keep costs down because they're a business, and the more profit the better, but make NO mistake, they ARE making money, and LOTS of it, and progaming is a model that would most certainly still work if gamers were treated and paid better, although it might not support as many as it does now, especially the "B team" players. But, as usual in history, the businesses will not do the right thing by themselves and their will have to be some sort of outside force if anything is to change.
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Thanks for the translation.
This might actually be one of the reasons why Blizzard wants so many rights in their negotiations with kespa, because they have the power to change something about this. It would be pretty bad publicity if it gets revealed that Blizzard knowingly supports kespa at "supressing" their progamers
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On May 21 2010 19:29 paulinepain wrote:
This is immoral. It's always embarrassing to act in a corrupt way, but taking a look at the system, I mean, sAviOr has no way to feel guilty. I wouldn't for sure.
How do you figure that? Savior was getting paid the most of any progamer, this system is unfair (if you wish to call it that) to people on the bottom, since their compensation is very limited.
Again, supply and demand, the people on the bottom aren't good enough for televised appearances yet, and are also easily replaced. They work hard to hopefully make it to the A-teams (where they will get more money). Savior has no way to not feel guilty here, he was one of the most well known, best paid players in the game. He was just greedy.
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Haven't we had this conversation before? They do it for the love of the game. They're living their fantasy of making a little money while they play a game they enjoy. This is more of a cultural phenomena more than anything else. The teams and sponsors really don't make anything other than publicity. It is a cultural investment they wish to keep.
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On May 22 2010 05:40 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 19:29 paulinepain wrote:
This is immoral. It's always embarrassing to act in a corrupt way, but taking a look at the system, I mean, sAviOr has no way to feel guilty. I wouldn't for sure. How do you figure that? Savior was getting paid the most of any progamer, this system is unfair (if you wish to call it that) to people on the bottom, since their compensation is very limited. Again, supply and demand, the people on the bottom aren't good enough for televised appearances yet, and are also easily replaced. They work hard to hopefully make it to the A-teams (where they will get more money). Savior has no way to not feel guilty here, he was one of the most well known, best paid players in the game. He was just greedy.
It has nothing to do with being most famous and best pay. I said sAviOr i could have said this noob of Luxury as well and if it was a guy that earn nothing it would be the same. The environment shape the behavior, not the opposite. You cannot really blame somebody to be greedy in a greedy environment, it's stupid. The entire system is guilty, not just the one that have been busted, one time. Think about all the things we don't know and that is going on right now, I'm sure you can find corruption at all level if you really look for it, because of money and competition. Nobody is clean.
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Can't wait to help any boycott.
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On May 22 2010 13:23 paulinepain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 05:40 moopie wrote:On May 21 2010 19:29 paulinepain wrote:
This is immoral. It's always embarrassing to act in a corrupt way, but taking a look at the system, I mean, sAviOr has no way to feel guilty. I wouldn't for sure. How do you figure that? Savior was getting paid the most of any progamer, this system is unfair (if you wish to call it that) to people on the bottom, since their compensation is very limited. Again, supply and demand, the people on the bottom aren't good enough for televised appearances yet, and are also easily replaced. They work hard to hopefully make it to the A-teams (where they will get more money). Savior has no way to not feel guilty here, he was one of the most well known, best paid players in the game. He was just greedy. It has nothing to do with being most famous and best pay. I said sAviOr i could have said this noob of Luxury as well and if it was a guy that earn nothing it would be the same. The environment shape the behavior, not the opposite. You cannot really blame somebody to be greedy in a greedy environment, it's stupid. The entire system is guilty, not just the one that have been busted, one time. Think about all the things we don't know and that is going on right now, I'm sure you can find corruption at all level if you really look for it, because of money and competition. Nobody is clean.
to be honest, it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that savior did nothing wrong.
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On May 22 2010 14:57 Subwoofermate wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 13:23 paulinepain wrote:On May 22 2010 05:40 moopie wrote:On May 21 2010 19:29 paulinepain wrote:
This is immoral. It's always embarrassing to act in a corrupt way, but taking a look at the system, I mean, sAviOr has no way to feel guilty. I wouldn't for sure. How do you figure that? Savior was getting paid the most of any progamer, this system is unfair (if you wish to call it that) to people on the bottom, since their compensation is very limited. Again, supply and demand, the people on the bottom aren't good enough for televised appearances yet, and are also easily replaced. They work hard to hopefully make it to the A-teams (where they will get more money). Savior has no way to not feel guilty here, he was one of the most well known, best paid players in the game. He was just greedy. It has nothing to do with being most famous and best pay. I said sAviOr i could have said this noob of Luxury as well and if it was a guy that earn nothing it would be the same. The environment shape the behavior, not the opposite. You cannot really blame somebody to be greedy in a greedy environment, it's stupid. The entire system is guilty, not just the one that have been busted, one time. Think about all the things we don't know and that is going on right now, I'm sure you can find corruption at all level if you really look for it, because of money and competition. Nobody is clean. to be honest, it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself that savior did nothing wrong.
Truly not, I never believed in personal responsibility and guilt. Outdated social values that just lead to nowhere.
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Big translation
Big thank you
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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EPT
