imagine if it told you the "per minute" of each action (next to the graph)... i've suggested this before. for example: (yes these are from actual replays)

nada tvz 363 action per minute
179 hotkey per minute
54 move per minute
41 select per minute
28 rally per minute
18 attack move per minute
12 train per minute
5 stop per minute
5 shift select per minute
5 heal per minute

boxer tvt 217 action per minute
72 move per minute
54 hotkey per minute
43 select per minute
12 rally per minute
6 train per minute
5 attack move per minute
5 shift select per minute
3 unload per minute
3 build per minute

User_2

Russian Federation1020 Posts

March 27 2004 00:11 GMT

Is this just taking the Action Distribution percentage and multiplying by the APM? (ie. .13 * 217) If its some other method, it would be pretty neat, but otherwise, i just think its redundant.

Taguchi

Greece1575 Posts

March 27 2004 00:15 GMT

Well i'd not find it really helpful since we get the percentages right now anyway, these would just be the real values, not anything new.

STIMEY d okgm fish

Canada6140 Posts

March 27 2004 00:16 GMT

comparing two player's percentages is different ... this is basically showing you why their apm is what it is, what they are doing. you are thinking about it backwards. with this, you could see, well he's not so fast except for he's doing NNN, or NNN is actually faster in most respects. just looking at percentages you couldnt really say "well boxer moves way more than nada and is almost as fast as nada except for selecting hotkeys"

setting and selecting and double selecting hotkeys dont seem seperated in the actions graph either :/

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

March 27 2004 00:21 GMT

sorry stimow, don't think it'd be useful

Countdown

1217 Posts

March 27 2004 00:21 GMT

It wouldn't be useful for me. Knowing my APM isn't even useful for getting better.

T_T

Vatican City State593 Posts

March 27 2004 00:22 GMT

interesting

User_2

Russian Federation1020 Posts

March 27 2004 00:27 GMT

Unless you could make some graph like the Actions Chart, where it displays the peaks and troughs throughout the game, but only with Hotkeys/Build/Stim/etc. That would be kinda cool, just to see where they use the different actions most, otherwise, the percentages are sufficient me thinks.

STIMEY d okgm fish

Canada6140 Posts

March 27 2004 00:31 GMT

well, assuming these two reps were the only thing in the world we ever compared, it looks interesting to me. it won't make you a better player but it could help you understand the differences between players and matchups.

for example (looking at the two examples):

nada hits hotkeys over twice as much as boxer did, of course nada's apm is not even close to twice as much as boxer.

boxer moves significantly more often than nada.

boxer hotkeys about as often as nada moves.

nada rallies about twice as much as boxer.

both select about the same amount per minute (boxer insignificantly more).

nada "trains" twice as much as boxer (funny pun i kno).

both shift select at about 5pm or about once every 8 secs.

boxer gives an unload command as often as he gives a build command.

none of that is interesting to any of u? :/ or useful? right now everyone looks at apm and argues about what it means. imagine if you could get into more detail, e.g. "every good tvz has NNNNN per minute and u are XXXX"?? maybe the trends arent seen here but surely there would be some if more reps were looked at in this way, but it can't be done until it's made easier.

Radiohead

Norway201 Posts

March 27 2004 00:32 GMT

#10

i think it would be very useful, particulary with seperate action charts.

Bill307

Canada9103 Posts

March 27 2004 01:30 GMT

#11

I wouldn't find it useful myself, but I would find it interesting to know

distant_voice

Germany2521 Posts

March 27 2004 02:02 GMT

#12

me 2

Insane

United States4991 Posts

March 27 2004 02:17 GMT

#13

It wouldn't really be useful, but it'd be cool to know.

8882

2718 Posts

March 27 2004 02:20 GMT

#14

it would be useful IMO

draeger

United States3256 Posts

March 27 2004 02:26 GMT

#15

I'd be interested in the update.

A3iL3r0n

United States2196 Posts

March 27 2004 02:54 GMT

#16

It potentially could be very useful, nice idea.

x[ReaPeR]x

United States3447 Posts

March 27 2004 03:19 GMT

#17

Cool idea, I think it is useful for figuring out acctual APM. As you can see in this case BoxeR and NaDa are about the same speed even though NaDa has 350 APM to BoxeR's 250.

MPXMX

Canada4309 Posts

March 27 2004 08:12 GMT

#18

I don't find that idea THAT interesting, but what i know is

I have 350+ replays of myself in which I'm not a newbie anymore, and I'd like to be able to analyze them with bwchart to find out what's the "vs race" distribution for me i.e. what percentage of games is vs toss,zerg,terran.

Then by taking a large replay sample, like 5k or 10k replays, i guess you could find the approximate distribution in all of starcraft population, but that wouldn't work for my 5k replays cause 99% of thhem involve at least 1 terran.

STIMEY d okgm fish

Canada6140 Posts

March 27 2004 19:55 GMT

#19

well, that was sort of another idea i had, to follow up this idea; mass replays of players could be analyzed and acceptable "profiles" could be created. then it could look at your tvz rep and say, "hey, ur style is most closest to: (player's name here)" which would be good times. there could be "compare my style to player N" etc. of course you could build a profile of any player, the more reps you have of them, the better. u could build a profile of boxer pre-2003 and post-2003 and compare them. all kinds of interesting possibilities arise if these numbers could be combined for multiple reps, groups of reps compared, reps of one player compared to another, reps of one matchup compared to another, any group of reps compared to any other group of reps, any one rep compared to any group of reps, i hope you get the picture. imagine being able to distinctly see something that seperates you from just about every decent tvz player out there? maybe you wouldn't know what the numbers meant, but maybe you would. you could try to find out with experimentation and lasgo's observer pack too.

jca

France273 Posts

March 27 2004 20:00 GMT

#20

On March 27 2004 17:12 MPXMX wrote:

I have 350+ replays of myself in which I'm not a newbie anymore, and I'd like to be able to analyze them with bwchart to find out what's the "vs race" distribution for me i.e. what percentage of games is vs toss,zerg,terran.

You can already do that if you list the replays by "players".If you used different names, then use the akas to group all your different names into one main name.

nortydog

Australia3067 Posts

March 27 2004 20:15 GMT

#21

It would be interesting to see 2 players compared.

Probe (H)

Netherlands448 Posts

March 27 2004 20:40 GMT

#22

would be very useful

STIMEY d okgm fish

Canada6140 Posts

March 29 2004 20:55 GMT

#23

i think a lot of ppl look at their apm going up and don't see the big picture, they arent really using bwchart to analyse anything just count their actions and divide. i think with a feature like this one people could begin to pick apart the parts of an apm and maybe learn to differenciate between "good apm" and "bad apm"

and maybe, after that, a kind of "weighted apm" could be designed that would consider certain components as a function of the other or diminish on a logrithmic function or all kinds of crazy ideas to come up with a more useful number than the raw apm, which can sometimes be inflated by inferior actions. while reps dont save minimap or scrolling it may be able to correct most apms for this by reducing other thing or increasing other or etc. just some ideas thinking far into the future

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