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Korea Swept In Illegal Starcraft League Gambling - Page 58

Forum Index > BW General
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Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
April 15 2010 02:30 GMT
#1141
On April 15 2010 09:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Nice this thread was linked by Eurogamer.


Thread is linked everywhere, Kotaku has it also. EPIC!
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
dhe95
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1213 Posts
April 15 2010 03:22 GMT
#1142
reading this thread reminded me of rekrul's idra vs nony blog
Lebesgue
Profile Joined October 2008
4542 Posts
April 15 2010 03:38 GMT
#1143
On April 15 2010 11:23 LuCky. wrote:
Too much risk in illegal betting, you don't know if the player will go through with the offer even if he/she initially accepts.


That would be true if that was "one-shot" interaction.

But for player taking money and not losing will mean that he will not get another offer to rig his game again. Hence, there is incentive to deliver in term of future money.

theramstoss
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada242 Posts
April 15 2010 04:29 GMT
#1144
On April 15 2010 10:04 StRyKeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 08:51 NicolBolas wrote:
On April 15 2010 07:08 StRyKeR wrote:
On April 15 2010 06:39 PanzerDragoon wrote:
On April 15 2010 05:53 StRyKeR wrote:
On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:
On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:
On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:
On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:
On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked?


Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic.



You are wrong.
Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not.
Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish.



So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated.


I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations).

To elaborate:
a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters.
b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players.

Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate.


This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged.

Why would you fix the match to have Flash win? That makes no fucking sense at all. You fix the match for the underdog to win so you can rake in money from people betting on the favorite by giving favorable odds on the favorite.

Have you ever gambled on sports before?



lol, the internet really tests one's patience.

First, Flash is not THAT overwhelming of a favorite against every player. If you recall, Jaedong vs. Flash was split pretty evenly on odds. I imagine that Bisu vs. Flash would also look similar. Or Stork. Even Really, since he's won before. In all these cases, there's enough odds to make money because it only slightly favors Flash.

Second, you can still make a lot of money betting with the odds. Let's walk through an example.

Let's say Flash is favored to win against Luxury 2:1. Let's say there's $20000 in the pool for Flash and $10000 in the pool for Lux.

Let's now say that you rig the game so that Lux loses. You bet an extra $10000 for Flash, so that there's $30000 for Flash and $10000 for Lux. Lux loses. You were $10000 of the total $30000 pot for Flash, so you deserve 1/3 of the pot in Lux. You get paid $10000/3 = about $3333.

I'd say that's worth it.


However, since you're fixing the match, you have cost overhead. Namely, paying Luxury. Luxury, being an A-class player, doesn't come cheap. Maybe he sells a loss for a flat $2000.

So, after cost overhead, you get a measly $1,300.

Yes, you can in fact make money betting with the odds. But the more fixes you put in, the more likely you are to get caught. And once you get caught, your profit goes to $0. So it is better to put fixes in on longer odds, so that you get a better payday.

Let's say we're at the heyday of JvZ. It's Jaedong vs. Hyvaa. Nobody believes there's even a chance that Hyvaa's going to win this game. Odds makers want to make a little money off of the match, so they're offering 10:1 for Hyvaa, possibly more.

So you go to Jaedong and say, "Here's $30,000, one year of college tuition in America. Forget how to make Mutalisks for a day."

Even if all you bet on Hyvaa is that $30,000, you will have made $270,000 gross profit afterwards. When you pay off Jaedong, that's a net profit of $240,000.

The chances of you getting caught fixing games is the same either way. But in this case, if you spent that $30,000 on Luxury losing to Flash, you only make $10,000, and that's before you have to buy Luxury off. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to take that risk in fixing games, I'd rather get an 8x profit than a 0.3x profit for my investment.


I'm not saying it's more profitable to go with the odds. I was just explaining how you could make money with your "pal" Luxury and don't have to resort to rigging with Flash, the favored player.


fixing a game by approaching the underdog is stupid.. Even if the odds are 1:1 like Jaedong vs flash it's stupid. Why would you do that when you can rig a match that's 1:10?
quote? what quote?
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
April 15 2010 05:10 GMT
#1145
On April 15 2010 07:08 StRyKeR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 06:39 PanzerDragoon wrote:
On April 15 2010 05:53 StRyKeR wrote:
On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:
On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:
On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:
On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:
On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked?


Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic.



You are wrong.
Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not.
Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish.



So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated.


I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations).

To elaborate:
a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters.
b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players.

Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate.


This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged.

Why would you fix the match to have Flash win? That makes no fucking sense at all. You fix the match for the underdog to win so you can rake in money from people betting on the favorite by giving favorable odds on the favorite.

Have you ever gambled on sports before?



lol, the internet really tests one's patience.

First, Flash is not THAT overwhelming of a favorite against every player. If you recall, Jaedong vs. Flash was split pretty evenly on odds. I imagine that Bisu vs. Flash would also look similar. Or Stork. Even Really, since he's won before. In all these cases, there's enough odds to make money because it only slightly favors Flash.

Second, you can still make a lot of money betting with the odds. Let's walk through an example.

Let's say Flash is favored to win against Luxury 2:1. Let's say there's $20000 in the pool for Flash and $10000 in the pool for Lux.

Let's now say that you rig the game so that Lux loses. You bet an extra $10000 for Flash, so that there's $30000 for Flash and $10000 for Lux. Lux loses. You were $10000 of the total $30000 pot for Flash, so you deserve 1/3 of the pot in Lux. You get paid $10000/3 = about $3333.

I'd say that's worth it.

Normally, no one would bet so big, but that's because they're not sure. Heck, as a rigger, you could bet $1000000 for Flash and grab 99% of Lux's pot.

Your'e right though, that if the odds were super bad, there's no incentive. If Flash was at $10000 and Lux was at $100, no one would risk getting caught to make $100 bucks.

Would you now enlighten me on your gambling experiences?

The people fixing the games are not the individual gamblers. It was the gambling sites.

You don't want to fix matches with evenly matched players because you want people to take the "good odds" on favorites that you've paid off to lose.
PanzerDragoon
Profile Joined March 2010
United States822 Posts
April 15 2010 05:16 GMT
#1146
Oh, as for my gambling experience, I've gambled pretty often on horse racing and football, and my grandfather was a bookie.

The only way you'd have players throwing matches to Flash is if there was some organization that wanted to pimp Flash out as the next megastar of the game. Otherwise, for the gambling sites, it makes way more sense to have them approach A-listers, throw 5,000 grand at them to throw the game, and then set the line to something stupid like, Luxury vs Idra, 1:1 odds. Everyones going to take Luxury obviously, then Idra wins, and the gambling sites make tons of fucking money
FREEloss_ca
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada603 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 05:20:34
April 15 2010 05:18 GMT
#1147
Drama in the progaming world! Any official word of who the accused 'A-listers' are?
"Starcraft...It just echos brilliance and manliness." - Tasteless
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
April 15 2010 06:25 GMT
#1148
Terrible terrible damage on the SC1 pro gaming scene!
qqqq
Profile Joined November 2009
10 Posts
April 15 2010 06:40 GMT
#1149

http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2010041509078

Fraud Scandal Rocks Pro Starcraft Gaming

APRIL 15, 2010 06:41

A criminal investigation has begun into the alleged rigging of Starcraft game competitions, Seoul prosecutors said yesterday.

The Korea e-Sports Association and a pro gamers’ group reportedly found circumstantial evidence that more than 10 active and retired pro gamers pocketed bribes by fabricating game results on illegal betting Web sites. Prosecutors were asked to launch an investigation last month.

Betting valuable items on Starcraft games is illegal. People can legally gamble on sports only through Sports Toto lotteries, which are issued under the Public Sport Promotion Act, or bet on horseracing and bicycle and canoe racing.

Fabricating wins and losses of online games are conducted through illegal Web sites called “playgrounds.” These sites are operated by overseas-based servers and are known to a small number of exclusive members through online game cafes and other routes. The sites operate on an ad hoc basis by informing Web addresses to members via mobile phones after switching to other servers if a criminal probe is suspected. This makes it difficult to trace their operators. The stakes reportedly range from dozens to thousands of dollars.

The scandal allegedly started when ex-pro gamers who served as illegal brokers promised money to junior pro gamers. The brokers approached pro gamers with good records in the pro or individual leagues, offering them bribes for intentionally losing games. The brokers are also suspected of exploiting the practice of betters generally making their bets on pro gamers with stellar records by betting on rivals with inferior performance. They also reportedly bribed promising novices on pro gaming teams, illegally acquired video files of training by famous players, and figured out the latter’s strategies in advance.

Pro gamers usually debut in their mid to late teens, and are forced to retire in their mid-20s. Notably, minors on pro gaming teams earn little salary, and find bribes hard to resist. A retired pro gamer who is now a game commentator said, “If young players in their 20s who once lived like a hero start to lose to younger players, they can hardly resist the temptation to make one big bet.”

After the suspicion was raised, the association recently changed its practice of releasing the names of players who play in pro leagues in advance. The list will now be announced on the day of a competition to prevent prior contact and collusion between gamers and brokers. Pro teams will also expel players implicated in the fabrication or block them from competitions until the truth is confirmed.

Of the more than 10 players implicated in the scandal, half of them are famous active players. The remainder comprises players in the minor league and brokers.
theramstoss
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada242 Posts
April 15 2010 06:43 GMT
#1150
Can a Korean person post the link/translation to the interview of Stork and the blog entry by that government official regarding this.. I'm too busy to do it right now.
quote? what quote?
ZBiR
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
Poland1092 Posts
April 15 2010 08:26 GMT
#1151
On April 15 2010 15:43 theramstoss wrote:
Can a Korean person post the link/translation to the interview of Stork and the blog entry by that government official regarding this.. I'm too busy to do it right now.

What Stork interview? Is there any regarding this situation?
theramstoss
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada242 Posts
April 15 2010 08:55 GMT
#1152
He basically complained about how the situation caused the ban on mp3 players (some have internet capabilities), because some players use that to calm themselves before a match.
quote? what quote?
JaimeR
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
148 Posts
April 15 2010 08:56 GMT
#1153
It's pretty disappointing that it all started for older retired pro-gamers - what's that label they use starting with H that denotes seniority and respect?

(P)Nal_rA always seemed like the kind of guy who appears super nice but you wouldn't trust with your daughter 'cos somewhere behind that facade is a heart that is darker than the oceans.
JaimeR
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
148 Posts
April 15 2010 08:57 GMT
#1154
Actually I take that back, I feel like absolute shit saying that about such an entertaining player who made SC worth watching back in the day.

theramstoss
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada242 Posts
April 15 2010 09:11 GMT
#1155
What the hell are you rambling on about, Nal ra isn't even under investigation.
quote? what quote?
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
April 15 2010 09:18 GMT
#1156
Hahaha;)
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
MR71N1
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia9 Posts
April 15 2010 10:33 GMT
#1157
posting in epic thread
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
April 15 2010 11:31 GMT
#1158
On April 15 2010 08:49 NastyMarine wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 07:09 Jakalo wrote:
On April 15 2010 06:53 NastyMarine wrote:
Honestly, you have to be some sort of clown to not believe this. I'm sure illegal betting etc. has been happening for years. This doesn't surprise me. I'm sure the hottest time period for this was when NaDa/sAviOr were at eachother's throats - big time rivals, big time bets.


Illegal betting - sure.
Match fixing - not so much..


And how do you exactly ponder about that one? Does your extensive time in the business tell you that? Or do you refuse to believe that throwing a game is just as easy as throwing a pie.

Look, I'm just looking at it from afar watching the immense popularity of the game. We all know that the business grosses a large sum; no one thinks for a second that maybe, just maybe, that this sort of thing is happening behind the scenes?


Commons sense maybe? What does this have to do with buisness?

Illegal betting on Starcraft is as unavoidable as in any sport where you are prohibited to gamble legally. Hell most people dont sweat about it and even frequently bet each other themselves to ''make the match more interesting''

So sites providing this opportunity to gamblers on high stakes are not so much of a strech.

Match fixing on the other hand require contact with progamers, their willingness to cooperate and muc more exposure, not to mention that they are in essence cheating not only law, but other gamblers as well (not that it matters very much, but may if word gets out in so small and isolated community).
Not that I say it is impossible as it is not and probably happened if investigation is in order.
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
April 15 2010 11:34 GMT
#1159
On April 15 2010 17:56 JaimeR wrote:
It's pretty disappointing that it all started for older retired pro-gamers - what's that label they use starting with H that denotes seniority and respect?

(P)Nal_rA always seemed like the kind of guy who appears super nice but you wouldn't trust with your daughter 'cos somewhere behind that facade is a heart that is darker than the oceans.


Hyung
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
1tym
Profile Joined April 2005
Korea (South)2425 Posts
April 15 2010 11:43 GMT
#1160
Guys there is nothing to worry about. The problem will be sorted out by itself. There will still be some dumbfucks betting on illegal e-sports gambling sites despite this scandal becoming publicized, but any human being with decent IQ will realize that there is high probability that the matches are fixed which will lead to lesser number of people betting on these sites. I don't think any progamers would be risking throwing up matches at this point as the police is under active investigation.
1tym is one time for your mind
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