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On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked? Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic. You are wrong. Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not. Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish. So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated. I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations). To elaborate: a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters. b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players. Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate.
This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged.
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I don't really think the incident effects Flash negatively. The nature of the scandal is that it misrepresented some players as being worse than they were, not the other way around. You could say that there's a chance that people were bribed to throw games to Flash, but there's no way that would have been profitable given that no matter what odds you gave Flash I'm sure there are people who would still take those odds. Also, we haven't become stupid as spectators, we can still judge "absolute" skill level and divorce it from relative advantage in games, even if his opponents were being bribed, it only means that there would be a bigger gap between Flash and his opponent's play, it wouldn't change the level at which Flash is playing which I think we can all agree is phenomenal. This logic applies to any top player today, so I don't really think esports loses that much from this controversy. Sure some players who should have won more took a bribe and lost instead, but the players who are the top of the game are there due to their own merits. It would have been much worse if this was a Kimbo like situation where the goal was to establish a show selling champion by pitting him against weaker fighters, seeing as the bribes were not of that nature I'm not too concerned.
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On April 15 2010 05:53 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked? Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic. You are wrong. Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not. Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish. So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated. I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations). To elaborate: a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters. b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players. Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate. This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged.
Why would you fix the match to have Flash win? That makes no fucking sense at all. You fix the match for the underdog to win so you can rake in money from people betting on the favorite by giving favorable odds on the favorite.
Have you ever gambled on sports before?
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Honestly, you have to be some sort of clown to not believe this. I'm sure illegal betting etc. has been happening for years. This doesn't surprise me. I'm sure the hottest time period for this was when NaDa/sAviOr were at eachother's throats - big time rivals, big time bets.
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On April 15 2010 06:39 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 05:53 StRyKeR wrote:On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked? Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic. You are wrong. Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not. Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish. So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated. I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations). To elaborate: a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters. b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players. Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate. This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged. Why would you fix the match to have Flash win? That makes no fucking sense at all. You fix the match for the underdog to win so you can rake in money from people betting on the favorite by giving favorable odds on the favorite. Have you ever gambled on sports before?
lol, the internet really tests one's patience.
First, Flash is not THAT overwhelming of a favorite against every player. If you recall, Jaedong vs. Flash was split pretty evenly on odds. I imagine that Bisu vs. Flash would also look similar. Or Stork. Even Really, since he's won before. In all these cases, there's enough odds to make money because it only slightly favors Flash.
Second, you can still make a lot of money betting with the odds. Let's walk through an example.
Let's say Flash is favored to win against Luxury 2:1. Let's say there's $20000 in the pool for Flash and $10000 in the pool for Lux.
Let's now say that you rig the game so that Lux loses. You bet an extra $10000 for Flash, so that there's $30000 for Flash and $10000 for Lux. Lux loses. You were $10000 of the total $30000 pot for Flash, so you deserve 1/3 of the pot in Lux. You get paid $10000/3 = about $3333.
I'd say that's worth it.
Normally, no one would bet so big, but that's because they're not sure. Heck, as a rigger, you could bet $1000000 for Flash and grab 99% of Lux's pot.
Your'e right though, that if the odds were super bad, there's no incentive. If Flash was at $10000 and Lux was at $100, no one would risk getting caught to make $100 bucks.
Would you now enlighten me on your gambling experiences?
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On April 15 2010 06:53 NastyMarine wrote:
Honestly, you have to be some sort of clown to not believe this. I'm sure illegal betting etc. has been happening for years. This doesn't surprise me. I'm sure the hottest time period for this was when NaDa/sAviOr were at eachother's throats - big time rivals, big time bets.
Illegal betting - sure.
Match fixing - not so much..
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On April 15 2010 06:39 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 05:53 StRyKeR wrote:On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked? Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic. You are wrong. Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not. Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish. So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated. I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations). To elaborate: a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters. b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players. Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate. This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged. Why would you fix the match to have Flash win? That makes no fucking sense at all. You fix the match for the underdog to win so you can rake in money from people betting on the favorite by giving favorable odds on the favorite. Have you ever gambled on sports before?
Also, you missed my point. by "shadow", I was referring to players that should have not lost. I have zero doubts that Flash is innocent completely.
Flash beats Lux, beats Jaedong, omg he's so good!
But now ppl might say, Lux was losing on purpose. Jaedong was losing on purpose. Flash really isn't that good.
That's what I meant.
Flash is enough of a beast. Best player on the scene besides Jaedong I think. But I think his wins are less legitimate if we find that many of those players were losing on purpose.
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On April 15 2010 02:49 PanzerDragoon wrote:
So you'll enjoy the game even if theres a possibility the outcomes aren't even legitimate?
Like I told another user, why not just watch pro wrestling then?
Hopefully those players that were involved are a minority, plus they will probably be taking action against this sort of thing from this point on. Besides, how can you ever be 100% certain, in any sport event?
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On April 15 2010 06:39 phlamez wrote:
I don't really think the incident effects Flash negatively. The nature of the scandal is that it misrepresented some players as being worse than they were, not the other way around. You could say that there's a chance that people were bribed to throw games to Flash, but there's no way that would have been profitable given that no matter what odds you gave Flash I'm sure there are people who would still take those odds. Also, we haven't become stupid as spectators, we can still judge "absolute" skill level and divorce it from relative advantage in games, even if his opponents were being bribed, it only means that there would be a bigger gap between Flash and his opponent's play, it wouldn't change the level at which Flash is playing which I think we can all agree is phenomenal. This logic applies to any top player today, so I don't really think esports loses that much from this controversy. Sure some players who should have won more took a bribe and lost instead, but the players who are the top of the game are there due to their own merits. It would have been much worse if this was a Kimbo like situation where the goal was to establish a show selling champion by pitting him against weaker fighters, seeing as the bribes were not of that nature I'm not too concerned.
I agree with all of your points.
But a naysayer can point to his matchlist and say, "90% of your wins are against riggers. Not legit." (Not that it was, but maybe! We won't know until later.)
Kind of like how ppl might downplay Jaedong's win against Flash in the MSL finals because of the heater incident.
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On April 12 2010 15:56 Sadistx wrote: sAviOr: I will destroy everyone in 2010. Unless you pay me not to.
LOLOLOL
best post on this thread :D
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savior ?
upmagic ?
luxury ?
yellow[arnc] ?
anytime ???
oh my god ...
just Midas can be our hero for win by saying he lose and fuck the guys money ^^
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On April 15 2010 07:35 NuKedUFirst wrote:LOLOLOL best post on this thread :D
I thought:
sAviOr's asshole will be destroyed in 2010
was better :-\
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On April 15 2010 07:09 Jakalo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 06:53 NastyMarine wrote:
Honestly, you have to be some sort of clown to not believe this. I'm sure illegal betting etc. has been happening for years. This doesn't surprise me. I'm sure the hottest time period for this was when NaDa/sAviOr were at eachother's throats - big time rivals, big time bets. Illegal betting - sure. Match fixing - not so much..
And how do you exactly ponder about that one? Does your extensive time in the business tell you that? Or do you refuse to believe that throwing a game is just as easy as throwing a pie.
Look, I'm just looking at it from afar watching the immense popularity of the game. We all know that the business grosses a large sum; no one thinks for a second that maybe, just maybe, that this sort of thing is happening behind the scenes?
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Russian Federation124 Posts
The era of BW is coming to an end!
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On April 15 2010 07:08 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 06:39 PanzerDragoon wrote:On April 15 2010 05:53 StRyKeR wrote:On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked? Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic. You are wrong. Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not. Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish. So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated. I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations). To elaborate: a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters. b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players. Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate. This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged. Why would you fix the match to have Flash win? That makes no fucking sense at all. You fix the match for the underdog to win so you can rake in money from people betting on the favorite by giving favorable odds on the favorite. Have you ever gambled on sports before? lol, the internet really tests one's patience. First, Flash is not THAT overwhelming of a favorite against every player. If you recall, Jaedong vs. Flash was split pretty evenly on odds. I imagine that Bisu vs. Flash would also look similar. Or Stork. Even Really, since he's won before. In all these cases, there's enough odds to make money because it only slightly favors Flash. Second, you can still make a lot of money betting with the odds. Let's walk through an example. Let's say Flash is favored to win against Luxury 2:1. Let's say there's $20000 in the pool for Flash and $10000 in the pool for Lux. Let's now say that you rig the game so that Lux loses. You bet an extra $10000 for Flash, so that there's $30000 for Flash and $10000 for Lux. Lux loses. You were $10000 of the total $30000 pot for Flash, so you deserve 1/3 of the pot in Lux. You get paid $10000/3 = about $3333. I'd say that's worth it.
However, since you're fixing the match, you have cost overhead. Namely, paying Luxury. Luxury, being an A-class player, doesn't come cheap. Maybe he sells a loss for a flat $2000.
So, after cost overhead, you get a measly $1,300.
Yes, you can in fact make money betting with the odds. But the more fixes you put in, the more likely you are to get caught. And once you get caught, your profit goes to $0. So it is better to put fixes in on longer odds, so that you get a better payday.
Let's say we're at the heyday of JvZ. It's Jaedong vs. Hyvaa. Nobody believes there's even a chance that Hyvaa's going to win this game. Odds makers want to make a little money off of the match, so they're offering 10:1 for Hyvaa, possibly more.
So you go to Jaedong and say, "Here's $30,000, one year of college tuition in America. Forget how to make Mutalisks for a day."
Even if all you bet on Hyvaa is that $30,000, you will have made $270,000 gross profit afterwards. When you pay off Jaedong, that's a net profit of $240,000.
The chances of you getting caught fixing games is the same either way. But in this case, if you spent that $30,000 on Luxury losing to Flash, you only make $10,000, and that's before you have to buy Luxury off. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to take that risk in fixing games, I'd rather get an 8x profit than a 0.3x profit for my investment.
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just run the site yourself. put a JD 2:1 Hyvaa online. even though you only win 50% think about all the JD fankids who will be happy to put 5-20$ on their idol for a guaranteed win. all these kids lose their money, you pay mister JD and buy some serious booze.
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Nice this thread was linked by Eurogamer.
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On April 14 2010 22:35 MourningWould wrote:
rofl, nobody watches NBA anymore?
Maybe not as much as the Michael Jordan days but still...
I was sarcastic. My point was that soccer is still huge in Italy (and entire Europe) despite the fact that everyone knows (and it has even been officialy PROVED) that some matches are fixed, and NBA is still doing ok despite Donaghy's accusations. As long as the show is fun, people will always tune it to watch.
I would hate to see the official proof that some matches were fixed in SC:BW as well, because I have great respect for this awesome game, but I would not be surprised it that was the case. Money is money, it opens even those doors that cannot be moved by a kind word or a control group of archons 
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On April 15 2010 08:51 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2010 07:08 StRyKeR wrote:On April 15 2010 06:39 PanzerDragoon wrote:On April 15 2010 05:53 StRyKeR wrote:On April 15 2010 02:56 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 01:05 On_Slaught wrote:On April 15 2010 00:33 Demand2k wrote:On April 15 2010 00:29 lone_hydra wrote:On April 15 2010 00:22 Demand2k wrote:
Thinking back at how you were yourselves as 15-20 years old greedy hormon bombs... are you HONESTLY shocked? Umm yes. You cannot compare us to them. We grew up in different environments, had different responsibilities, different lifestyles. You might as well expect 98% of all african teenagers can read since 98% of North American children can read using your crap logic. You are wrong. Greed and jealousy are both human nature, literacy is not. Your comparison is so bad it's almost tempting to call you childish. So based upon your logic, you editing your original post to add "thank god i'm a flash fan" is not only meaningless, but ironically puts you in the same boat as the fans of other players implicated. I claimed no "logic" that you can derive your post from, neither can I be put "in a boat"; That's a negative implication that would require you to know my motivations (and demotivations). To elaborate: a) I don't find the whole situation surprising given the nature of youngsters. b) I follow Flash's career (whom I believe is obviously innocent), and care nothing for other players. Send me a PM instead if you're just in it for the bashing, mate. This incident also affects Flash negatively though. Not sure how you can feel totally fine. Every win that Flash gets will have a shadow of doubt as to whether it was rigged. Why would you fix the match to have Flash win? That makes no fucking sense at all. You fix the match for the underdog to win so you can rake in money from people betting on the favorite by giving favorable odds on the favorite. Have you ever gambled on sports before? lol, the internet really tests one's patience. First, Flash is not THAT overwhelming of a favorite against every player. If you recall, Jaedong vs. Flash was split pretty evenly on odds. I imagine that Bisu vs. Flash would also look similar. Or Stork. Even Really, since he's won before. In all these cases, there's enough odds to make money because it only slightly favors Flash. Second, you can still make a lot of money betting with the odds. Let's walk through an example. Let's say Flash is favored to win against Luxury 2:1. Let's say there's $20000 in the pool for Flash and $10000 in the pool for Lux. Let's now say that you rig the game so that Lux loses. You bet an extra $10000 for Flash, so that there's $30000 for Flash and $10000 for Lux. Lux loses. You were $10000 of the total $30000 pot for Flash, so you deserve 1/3 of the pot in Lux. You get paid $10000/3 = about $3333. I'd say that's worth it. However, since you're fixing the match, you have cost overhead. Namely, paying Luxury. Luxury, being an A-class player, doesn't come cheap. Maybe he sells a loss for a flat $2000. So, after cost overhead, you get a measly $1,300. Yes, you can in fact make money betting with the odds. But the more fixes you put in, the more likely you are to get caught. And once you get caught, your profit goes to $0. So it is better to put fixes in on longer odds, so that you get a better payday. Let's say we're at the heyday of JvZ. It's Jaedong vs. Hyvaa. Nobody believes there's even a chance that Hyvaa's going to win this game. Odds makers want to make a little money off of the match, so they're offering 10:1 for Hyvaa, possibly more. So you go to Jaedong and say, "Here's $30,000, one year of college tuition in America. Forget how to make Mutalisks for a day." Even if all you bet on Hyvaa is that $30,000, you will have made $270,000 gross profit afterwards. When you pay off Jaedong, that's a net profit of $240,000. The chances of you getting caught fixing games is the same either way. But in this case, if you spent that $30,000 on Luxury losing to Flash, you only make $10,000, and that's before you have to buy Luxury off. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to take that risk in fixing games, I'd rather get an 8x profit than a 0.3x profit for my investment.
I'm not saying it's more profitable to go with the odds. I was just explaining how you could make money with your "pal" Luxury and don't have to resort to rigging with Flash, the favored player.
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Too much risk in illegal betting, you don't know if the player will go through with the offer even if he/she initially accepts.
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EPT
