[?] How much do progamer practice?

On March 02 2010 04:07 buickskylark wrote:
9-10 hours? That is utterly insane. Most athletes don't train that much.

On March 02 2010 04:07 buickskylark wrote:
9-10 hours? That is utterly insane. Most athletes don't train that much.

On March 02 2010 04:07 buickskylark wrote:
9-10 hours? That is utterly insane. Most athletes don't train that much.

On March 02 2010 04:09 StarN wrote:

difference is that there isn't as much physical strain with e-sports as opposed to sports. If you practice too much soccer or Cage Fighting then you get warn out that it becomes a detriment to your health.

Any competitive activity that doesn't have that physical strain people generally tend to train longer hours and it's more dependent on how strong your mental focus is.

Many Pianists I know at my music school practice 8-10 hours a day (even though that itself is very difficult on your wrists at a certain point)

On March 02 2010 04:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I do think that they exagerate, and I don't believe that most progamers practice 12 hours a day.

I am a musician, and I can tell you that practicing 10 hours in one day is basically spending all your time on it.

Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day.

On March 02 2010 04:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I do think that they exagerate, and I don't believe that most progamers practice 12 hours a day.

I am a musician, and I can tell you that practicing 10 hours in one day is basically spending all your time on it. Not going outside, not meeting friends. Practice, eat, take a shower, make one or two breaks not to become a zombi every two/three hours, and your day is over.

I know it is not the same, because playing a music instrument (except maybe piano, where at least you sit) is wayyyy more tiring and physical than playing starcraft, and you need much more breaks. Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day.

Now theses people play tournaments, they have to go there, to wait, they watch games, they chat on the internet and with friends at least a little bit, they do some gym, even a minimum, and sometimes they give interview. That makes a 12 hours on a daily basis straight impossible.

So I guess a good guess would be an average of 8 - 10 hours for the most crazy ones of actually playing the game.

On March 02 2010 04:09 FortuneSyn wrote:


they would if their bodies could take it, but they don't because their bodies can't.

On March 02 2010 04:26 WheelOfTime wrote:


You fail quite hard. Clearly, you're not a very good musician, and you're pretty narrow-sighted for thinking "Most people can't practice more than 5-6 hours in one day".

24 hrs in a day, with 7 hrs going to sleep and 3 hrs for food/breaks/washroom, that's still 14 hours of practice everyday.

Hell, I know music majors who practice their instruments 12 hrs and study for 4 hrs a day consistently.

Just because you don't have enough willpower and are narrow-sighted, doesn't mean everyone else is.

On March 02 2010 04:28 Liquid`NonY wrote:

estro had 11 hours mandatory. b-team would get half a day off about once a week. a-team would sometimes get full days off and they'd also all travel to proleague matches.

some people like nsp_action and say[join] would play during their break times so they'd play 12+ hours in a day

it's my opinion that training that many hours isn't optimal. but it is the standard method in korea and it gets results

On March 02 2010 04:07 buickskylark wrote:
9-10 hours? That is utterly insane. Most athletes don't train that much.

On March 02 2010 05:03 Biff The Understudy wrote:

What I was questionning is if theses people actually play 11 hours, or is that the time they are supposed to be there, also doing stuff like watching rep, discussing strategies, or taking breaks from time to time.

My point was that if you put 11 hours practice in your schedule, you probably end up doing 8-9 hours, because you are a human and not a machine.

Congratulation for your match, it was very entertaining and amazingly high level

On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Sigh.

If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players.

Have you played, let say, viola, once in your life? No. So let me tell you, most musicians arounds me don't have the muscles and the physical endurance to practice more than 5-6 hours regularly. If not they just break their back. Because when you are a 1 metre 60 japanese lady, you have limits, physical limits.

You can play in orchestra 9 hours a day, because in orchestra you don't actually play all the time and you are sit down. Personnal practice means playing often very intensely most of the time. I can practice uo to eught hours, and I am healthy. More than that, I fall apart. And someone like Auer, I know you have never heard about him was saying his students, like Heifetz or Milstein, not more than 5 hours violin a day, because more is destructive.

If you have the muscles to practice a violin Brahms concerto or something like that 11 hours a day, that's good for you. I tell you that most people can't.

Now my point that to practice 8 hours, you need to block 10 or 11 hours of youur time. Because you need breaks, even if you are superman, both for your body and your mind. And in a life, you need to do some other stuff. Like Shopping to eat, make your fucking lundery, go to college, and do administrrative stuff. And meet friends from time to time, take lessons in college, walk from one place to another, relax a little bit, cook, etc etc etc etc etc etc So unless you sleep 3 hours a day, practicing 12 hours on a regular basis is plain impossible.

So please, just shut up instead of saying stupid thinks.

On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Sigh.

If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players.

On March 02 2010 05:48 Culture wrote:
NonY, would you comment on what you consider other effective, yet less time consuming ways to practice (Or direct me to previous posts if you'd discussed this before).

On March 02 2010 06:03 StayFrosty wrote:
10-12 hours... reminds me of my wow playing days haha

On March 02 2010 06:24 StarN wrote:


Do you go to CNSMDP (aka Paris Conservatoire)?

On March 02 2010 04:28 Liquid`NonY wrote:

estro had 11 hours mandatory. b-team would get half a day off about once a week. a-team would sometimes get full days off and they'd also all travel to proleague matches.

some people like nsp_action and say[join] would play during their break times so they'd play 12+ hours in a day

it's my opinion that training that many hours isn't optimal. but it is the standard method in korea and it gets results

On March 02 2010 06:03 Piy wrote:


You're just being deliberately ignorant now.

On March 02 2010 08:17 rasers wrote:
why do u guys compare playing a music instrument to playing a computer game? TT
even i could play 10h+ wc3 or sc or whatever if i want 2~

On March 02 2010 08:21 neobowman wrote:

For every day of your life?

On March 02 2010 07:49 Eiserne wrote:

Actually, he's absolutely 100% completely correct. I'm a professional musician, studying classical cello at the university of North Texas. I can't practice more than 4 hours a day and I've been doing it for 12 years.

If you know a music major who says they practice 12 hours a day, they are lying out of their asses. It's a fact. Sorry, but you are wrong.

Coltrane and Heifetz may be able to practice 10-12 hours a day, but ask them what university they attended.

On March 02 2010 08:21 neobowman wrote:

For every day of your life?

On March 02 2010 08:28 nicoaldo wrote:


how did u quote him and comment on it before his double post got submitted? lol = S

On March 02 2010 04:46 buickskylark wrote:
anyone know what they are doing for these number of hours? Can't be all just playing games. I don't see how you can learn like that.

On March 02 2010 08:28 nicoaldo wrote:


how did u quote him and comment on it before his double post got submitted? lol = S

On March 02 2010 04:09 StarN wrote:

difference is that there isn't as much physical strain with e-sports as opposed to sports. If you practice too much soccer or Cage Fighting then you get warn out that it becomes a detriment to your health.

Any competitive activity that doesn't have that physical strain people generally tend to train longer hours and it's more dependent on how strong your mental focus is.

Many Pianists I know at my music school practice 8-10 hours a day (even though that itself is very difficult on your wrists at a certain point)

On July 04 2003 14:25 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
the foreigners (edit: I meant the ones in Korea, but of course it goes for the ones outside of it too) sure as hell don't play that much

not even close.

and I don't think others play 10 hours a day either.. I don't really see anyone being able to keep that up :/

10 hours every single day what the fuck, I honestly doubt they play that much =]

On March 02 2010 10:35 KsBerzerk wrote:
I want to know how much ACE practices

On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Sigh.

If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players.

Have you played, let say, viola, once in your life? No. So let me tell you, most musicians arounds me don't have the muscles and the physical endurance to practice more than 5-6 hours regularly. If not they just break their back. Because when you are a 1 metre 60 japanese lady, you have limits, physical limits.

You can play in orchestra 9 hours a day, because in orchestra you don't actually play all the time and you are sit down. Personnal practice means playing often very intensely most of the time. I can practice uo to eught hours, and I am healthy. More than that, I fall apart. And someone like Auer, I know you have never heard about him was saying his students, like Heifetz or Milstein, not more than 5 hours violin a day, because more is destructive.

If you have the muscles to practice a violin Brahms concerto or something like that 11 hours a day, that's good for you. I tell you that most people can't.

Now my point that to practice 8 hours, you need to block 10 or 11 hours of youur time. Because you need breaks, even if you are superman, both for your body and your mind. And in a life, you need to do some other stuff. Like Shopping to eat, make your fucking lundery, go to college, and do administrrative stuff. And meet friends from time to time, take lessons in college, walk from one place to another, relax a little bit, cook, etc etc etc etc etc etc So unless you sleep 3 hours a day, practicing 12 hours on a regular basis is plain impossible.

So please, just shut up instead of saying stupid thinks.

On March 02 2010 08:57 The6357 wrote:
most of us work 8 hrs a day...just couple extra hrs...what's the big deal?

On March 02 2010 04:07 buickskylark wrote:
9-10 hours? That is utterly insane. Most athletes don't train that much.

On March 02 2010 05:48 saltywet wrote:


lick lick, how does it taste

On March 02 2010 06:03 Piy wrote:


You're just being deliberately ignorant now.

On March 02 2010 07:49 Eiserne wrote:

Actually, he's absolutely 100% completely correct. I'm a professional musician, studying classical cello at the university of North Texas. I can't practice more than 4 hours a day and I've been doing it for 12 years.

If you know a music major who says they practice 12 hours a day, they are lying out of their asses. It's a fact. Sorry, but you are wrong.

Coltrane and Heifetz may be able to practice 10-12 hours a day, but ask them what university they attended.

On March 02 2010 05:48 saltywet wrote:


lick lick, how does it taste

On March 02 2010 05:01 Biff The Understudy wrote:

Sigh.

If you don't know what you are talking about, don't make dumb judgements. I am not narrow sighted, and I am training in one of the best music school in Europe. So maybe I know better than you what I talk about. And I have been playing in top orchestras, with top players.

Have you played, let say, viola, once in your life? No. So let me tell you, most musicians arounds me don't have the muscles and the physical endurance to practice more than 5-6 hours regularly. If not they just break their back. Because when you are a 1 metre 60 japanese lady, you have limits, physical limits.

You can play in orchestra 9 hours a day, because in orchestra you don't actually play all the time and you are sit down. Personnal practice means playing often very intensely most of the time. I can practice uo to eught hours, and I am healthy. More than that, I fall apart. And someone like Auer, I know you have never heard about him was saying his students, like Heifetz or Milstein, not more than 5 hours violin a day, because more is destructive.

If you have the muscles to practice a violin Brahms concerto or something like that 11 hours a day, that's good for you. I tell you that most people can't.

Now my point that to practice 8 hours, you need to block 10 or 11 hours of youur time. Because you need breaks, even if you are superman, both for your body and your mind. And in a life, you need to do some other stuff. Like Shopping to eat, make your fucking lundery, go to college, and do administrrative stuff. And meet friends from time to time, take lessons in college, walk from one place to another, relax a little bit, cook, etc etc etc etc etc etc So unless you sleep 3 hours a day, practicing 12 hours on a regular basis is plain impossible.

So please, just shut up instead of saying stupid thinks.

On March 02 2010 16:59 Poly325 wrote:


Biff, you are completely missing the point.

The point is that if anyone wants to be the best at anything, they need to practice as much as humanly possible, because if they don't, someone else will.

You are saying that most musicians in your school aren't practicing 10-12 hours a day, but what you are really saying is that you are kind of a loser who can't even fathom anyone practicing that much. Sure, maybe with things like trombone or violin, there are physical limits, just like how football players can't practice 10 hours a day. But for e-sports, and for example, piano or medical school studying, if you want to be in that top .1% and there is no physical limitation, you better not settle for anything less than unreasonable exertion.

Sorry, just listening to your argument, and I smell a loser. Haha. Wanted to bring you down. You think if you want to be the best in the world at something, you can still have other things to do in your day? If you want to just get by, sure, settle with a comfortable schedule of a few hours a day. But if you want to be the best, you better recognize that at the top, the rules are completely different, and if you even display the tiniest of weakness, the other elite will eat you alive in a second. Do you think someone else who eats and breaths their career 10 hours a day to the piont of being almost psychotic will think twice before shitting all over your face? lol, fucking weaklings.

On March 02 2010 16:59 Poly325 wrote:


Biff, you are completely missing the point.

The point is that if anyone wants to be the best at anything, they need to practice as much as humanly possible, because if they don't, someone else will.

You are saying that most musicians in your school aren't practicing 10-12 hours a day, but what you are really saying is that you are kind of a loser who can't even fathom anyone practicing that much. Sure, maybe with things like trombone or violin, there are physical limits, just like how football players can't practice 10 hours a day. But for e-sports, and for example, piano or medical school studying, if you want to be in that top .1% and there is no physical limitation, you better not settle for anything less than unreasonable exertion.

Sorry, just listening to your argument, and I smell a loser. Haha. Wanted to bring you down. You think if you want to be the best in the world at something, you can still have other things to do in your day? If you want to just get by, sure, settle with a comfortable schedule of a few hours a day. But if you want to be the best, you better recognize that at the top, the rules are completely different, and if you even display the tiniest of weakness, the other elite will eat you alive in a second. Do you think someone else who eats and breaths their career 10 hours a day to the piont of being almost psychotic will think twice before shitting all over your face? lol, fucking weaklings.

On March 02 2010 04:09 StarN wrote:

difference is that there isn't as much physical strain with e-sports as opposed to sports. If you practice too much soccer or Cage Fighting then you get warn out that it becomes a detriment to your health.

Any competitive activity that doesn't have that physical strain people generally tend to train longer hours and it's more dependent on how strong your mental focus is.

Many Pianists I know at my music school practice 8-10 hours a day (even though that itself is very difficult on your wrists at a certain point)

On March 02 2010 17:11 Biff The Understudy wrote:

lol

I won't bother to answer you. Actually, I will even remove the fuck off I wrote in the first place, you don't even worth to get banned for. Just buy a brain, or something.

On March 12 2010 15:02 Jonoman92 wrote:
Whether it's true or not I think it is insane that they play 12 hours a day, days in a row.

That's just sick.... It cannot be healthy.

On March 02 2010 16:59 Poly325 wrote:


Biff, you are completely missing the point.

The point is that if anyone wants to be the best at anything, they need to practice as much as humanly possible, because if they don't, someone else will.

You are saying that most musicians in your school aren't practicing 10-12 hours a day, but what you are really saying is that you are kind of a loser who can't even fathom anyone practicing that much. Sure, maybe with things like trombone or violin, there are physical limits, just like how football players can't practice 10 hours a day. But for e-sports, and for example, piano or medical school studying, if you want to be in that top .1% and there is no physical limitation, you better not settle for anything less than unreasonable exertion.

Sorry, just listening to your argument, and I smell a loser. Haha. Wanted to bring you down. You think if you want to be the best in the world at something, you can still have other things to do in your day? If you want to just get by, sure, settle with a comfortable schedule of a few hours a day. But if you want to be the best, you better recognize that at the top, the rules are completely different, and if you even display the tiniest of weakness, the other elite will eat you alive in a second. Do you think someone else who eats and breaths their career 10 hours a day to the piont of being almost psychotic will think twice before shitting all over your face? lol, fucking weaklings.

On March 02 2010 16:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:

lol

Do you need to be a bitch? Everybody knows that when I don't like something, I say it, including to Nony. I thought the final was good I tell him when I see him.

Shitty behaviour.


Yes, sure. You know much better then me, who study in the Royal Academy of Music, the supposingly best music conservatoire of your country, how much do musician practice.

Unless what you have heard by a friend of a friend or on the tv has more value than someone who has been spending the last 15 years doing music in a professional perspective.

Jesus.


Thanks.

On March 02 2010 10:15 Liquid`NonY wrote:

I'd never sacrifice sleep, never have caffeine, always exercise daily... Skipping exercise or sleep, or loading up on caffeine, are short-term fixes to make up for a bad schedule. If you have the luxury of time, like if you're a full time progamer, then long term efficiency is the most important thing. Short term burnouts happen constantly to people who overwork and long term burnout is a constant threat as well. If your tiredness carries on from one day to the next, then you're overworking. There can't be any accumulation of fatigue or you're gonna crash at some point and that'll be worse in the long run. So every morning you gotta start at 100%.

On March 02 2010 10:35 KsBerzerk wrote:
I want to know how much ACE practices

On March 12 2010 17:10 Elroi wrote:


So you play viola...? If you tried violin you'd have to double that amount of practice. No, seriously... it really depends on what you are playing/doing. A pianist can never practice as little as 4-6 hours, atleast not when he is developing. I seriously doubt though that Coltrane could practice more than 6 hours because it would be too hard for his lips. Likewise I know some opera singers that say they can't practice more than a couple of hours in order to not destroy their voices. I study literature, and I read about 10 hours (+ courses) a day. That is ofc possible due to the passiv nature of what I am doing (I could do it alot more...).

And I also wanted to point out that I think discussion over replays ofc must count in the practice time.. It's like excluding study of the partition for musicians.

On March 14 2010 12:02 haster27 wrote:
So IdrA, has anything changed from the Nony days or is the composition and time of the training still that rigid for progamers? Becuase if it is as seemingly harsh as he states, I am astounded you are able to keep up making posts in this site. I would be lying down on my bed sleeping after playing ~12 hrs a day.

On March 14 2010 12:44 2WeaK wrote:


I doubt its 12 hours straight, probably have breaks (at least lunch break I would assume) so I'd say he posts during his breaks. Keep in mind they have to do (I think) 8 hours minimum (from the Hyunjoon show) he probably posts while he takes his breaks or probably.

Also, those talking about musicians, its insane how much effort some people will put to be the best in a competitive environment. As far as I'm concerned(I'm not expert), the music environment isn't competitive at higher levels and there's no prize money for "being the best".

On March 14 2010 12:44 2WeaK wrote:


I doubt its 12 hours straight, probably have breaks (at least lunch break I would assume) so I'd say he posts during his breaks. Keep in mind they have to do (I think) 8 hours minimum (from the Hyunjoon show) he probably posts while he takes his breaks or probably.

Also, those talking about musicians, its insane how much effort some people will put to be the best in a competitive environment. As far as I'm concerned(I'm not expert), the music environment isn't competitive at higher levels and there's no prize money for "being the best".

On March 14 2010 13:18 lighter wrote:

You get jobs for being the best though, so that might as well be money.

On March 14 2010 14:48 buickskylark wrote:
I wonder where people's beliefs start to break down regarding the progamer's regimen. Is it the number of hours, or the fact that it's devoted to a hobby that most us westerners would consider trivial? Or maybe both?

Being someone that's never been disciplined to study anything more than 2 hours at a time, I'm astonished at the commitment involved. And yet, when I think of the hours they are spending just playing against each other, one can't help but feel like it's wasted effort. Simply playing doesn't get anyone better, they have to hone a particular skill one at a time.

Also, if everyone is practicing 8+ hours, what does that say about those S class progamers? How much do they practice? Why are they so infinitely better than the rest.

On March 14 2010 21:58 Caphe wrote:
Its just like study man, when the final comes, many student study like 8-12 hours a day
Not the best comparation, but you get the idea.
But i found that play BW staigh for 2-3 hours is more exhaust than studay straigh for 2-3 hours

On March 14 2010 13:56 fearus wrote:
One of my friends played WoW for 12+ hours a day for like a month and he only stopped cause he ran out of money. So my point is 12 hours of training isn't all that infeasible.

On March 28 2010 08:48 lac29 wrote:
I haven't read all the comments ... but how much of those 12 hours or practice are really in-game practice and not talking to teammates/coaches/fooling around while still in the practice room?

On March 29 2010 16:04 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
I can't imagine that past a certain point the practice helps someone all that much. Sitting at a computer for 10 hours a day playing game after game is simply not helpful. Practice is important, but saying that "practice makes perfect so practicing 10 hours a day is super" is completely immature and lacks an understanding of how the human brain and body operate.

Yeah, I know I'm not a progamer and will probably be flamed and strawmanned into oblivion for what I am saying here, but saying that the best way to improve at something is by doing it constantly is completely inaccurate. In Japan and Korea, that's what students are encouraged to do, and that is where their education systems are so flawed. As said before, a lot of the time spent in the progamer house is dedicated to strategy talks and reviewing replays, although I don't doubt that the players dedicate far too much time to in-game practice.

On March 29 2010 16:19 Hot_Bid wrote:

A lot of progamers have said Jaedong's consistency and skill is largely due to his ridiculous ability to practice crazy hours without stopping or getting tired.

On March 29 2010 16:04 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
I can't imagine that past a certain point the practice helps someone all that much. Sitting at a computer for 10 hours a day playing game after game is simply not helpful. Practice is important, but saying that "practice makes perfect so practicing 10 hours a day is super" is completely immature and lacks an understanding of how the human brain and body operate.

Yeah, I know I'm not a progamer and will probably be flamed and strawmanned into oblivion for what I am saying here, but saying that the best way to improve at something is by doing it constantly is completely inaccurate. In Japan and Korea, that's what students are encouraged to do, and that is where their education systems are so flawed. As said before, a lot of the time spent in the progamer house is dedicated to strategy talks and reviewing replays, although I don't doubt that the players dedicate far too much time to in-game practice.

On March 29 2010 16:34 Boonbag wrote:


And not fucking up when beeing on tv wich seems like a curse for 80% of these labourish gamers

On March 29 2010 17:05 Hot_Bid wrote:

yeah but practice to the point of instinct/second nature means less chance of choking, your hands and subconscious just do it all for you... that or excessive practice puts extra pressure on you causing you to choke

haha

A lot of progamers have said Jaedong's consistency and skill is largely due to his ridiculous ability to practice crazy hours without stopping or getting tired.

i wonder if there is such a thing as a perfect game. when is practice enough? How does someone like Jaedong, or Flash, who probably wins every game, knows they're improving?

On March 29 2010 17:05 Hot_Bid wrote:

yeah but practice to the point of instinct/second nature means less chance of choking, your hands and subconscious just do it all for you... that or excessive practice puts extra pressure on you causing you to choke

haha