• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:36
CEST 16:36
KST 23:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 29107 users

Is this map even remotely balanced?

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Excel Excel
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
142 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-23 03:44:00
February 21 2010 03:41 GMT
#1
RepDepot DL link:
Sigma v0.31b

EDIT> NEW VERSION:
[image loading]


+ Show Spoiler +
I pulled this map out of my behind a while earlier today; although on first sight it does not look too bad, closer scrutiny could reveal some ridiculously lopsided imbalances...

[image loading]


(Mains are buildable, stacked basilica are vision and hit% tested)

Please comment and give feedback if you can; I would really appreciate it if some general tips regarding racial imbalance could be given for me to keep in mind in the future. Thanks .
"SCREW OBSERVERS MUST HAVE MOAR ARBITERS!!!11one1" - Famous last words
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
February 21 2010 03:44 GMT
#2
The zergs seems to have a real easy time holding a third gas...
Moderator<:3-/-<
kaisr
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada715 Posts
February 21 2010 03:45 GMT
#3
at first glance it looks very t sided because it looks like t can defend 4 expos very easily
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 03:45:38
February 21 2010 03:45 GMT
#4
Looks like TvP could be painful on this... Without carriers I'm not sure how P is gonna win
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
February 21 2010 03:47 GMT
#5
Oh god, the naturals. THE NATURALS!

The rest of the map looks half-decent BUT THE NATURALS!
funnybananaman
Profile Joined April 2009
United States830 Posts
February 21 2010 03:48 GMT
#6
The major issue i see is that the natural expansion isn't directly in the path of the main. (i.e. you can walk straight in to the main bypassing natural). this is is a problem because it means zergs won't be able to make a sunken line that actually protects them in ZvT. Im sure you can think of the similar problems people will face in other matchups too.

Other than that, theres some wasted space in the middle of the map. no real suggestions about how to fix that though, since i dont know much about map making.
agarfin
Profile Joined May 2009
United States106 Posts
February 21 2010 03:51 GMT
#7
Terran can hold the mineral only expansion extremely easily with tanks inside the main. Also zerg can hold the 3rd gas easily. Muta harass also looks very strong at the natural, the terrain right behind the mineral line and lack of room for units/turrets could be a problem.
pioneer8
Profile Joined January 2010
United States143 Posts
February 21 2010 04:01 GMT
#8
Tanks are really good on this map because the high ground pod of the main is so big and stretches to the natural and what looks like two mineral onlys. The third gas in the bottom left and top right can also be easily taken by tanks and it would be easy for terran to take their entire side of the map.
gumbum8
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States721 Posts
February 21 2010 04:38 GMT
#9
TvP: terran can get and hold 4 ez expos
ZvT: as funnybananaman94 said, no unified sunken line- Z HAS to 3 hatch. and mech seems strong.
ZvP: IF zerg could manage to survive early game, I think it's pretty heavy Z favored. but early game could provide challenges because of the possibility of proxy gates.
but really, has anyone REALLY been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
February 21 2010 04:45 GMT
#10
Post on BWM. Get more and usually more accurate advice.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 05:05:42
February 21 2010 04:57 GMT
#11
extremely easy to hold 4 bases... which makes ZvT and TvP pretty ez.

I would suggest making the 3/9oclock bases easier to maneuver through, and make the min-only near the nat much more "in the middle" (like out in the open).
:)
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
February 21 2010 04:57 GMT
#12
Looks like the crap in the middle, the bridges and the close expos make it a T map in PvT. The P could try to move around the terran army to counter but the small choke makes that pretty hard to do. For that same reason I believe it would be Z>T.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 05:01:48
February 21 2010 05:01 GMT
#13
First thing I noticed.

[image loading]


Free min only for Terran.
Red circle on top is where Terran could put tanks to get that expo.
The red line on the bottom is where the Protoss would have to have dragoons to get 3 bases.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
February 21 2010 05:31 GMT
#14
nobody mentioned muta harass on the natural?

its like match point in that people don't build turrets behind the natural because they're not very effective, but its not like MP in that marines can't hit the mutas harassing the miners as easily because not only is the cliff only vulnerable on one side, but the marines have a hard time going behind the natural minerals
Nony is Bonjwa
Kwidowmaker
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada978 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 05:34:46
February 21 2010 05:34 GMT
#15
addition is commutative so all the positional imbalances are gone

addition is associative so it's racially balanced (ie: z v p = p v z)

looks good to me !

-edit- ... wait
Kk.
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
February 21 2010 05:38 GMT
#16
you might want to put the left center expansion's gas on the bottom, because unless you have mines and turrets sufficiently placed above, storm drops could come and own, and since right-center's gas is away from storming distance from the cliff, it would make it more balanced imo
Nony is Bonjwa
TriniMasta
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1323 Posts
February 21 2010 05:47 GMT
#17
Terran can hold a mineral only with 3 tanks in the main
정명훈 FIGHTING!!! Play both T and P.
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-21 05:57:25
February 21 2010 05:55 GMT
#18
Stop asking if a map is balanced or not on tl. Just remember instead of wasting your time making the op, all maps submitted by user is Terran favored, and there is nothing you can do to change the opinion of the community that user made maps are totally Terran favored. Edit the map all you want but most people will always say tanks are imba here despite your efforts.
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
February 21 2010 05:56 GMT
#19
Looks fine. People always judge maps based on how Tanks can be abused. They are stupid.
Moderator
Sight
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States148 Posts
February 21 2010 05:58 GMT
#20
On February 21 2010 14:56 Chill wrote:
Looks fine. People always judge maps based on how Tanks can be abused. They are stupid.

Don't bypassable nat's generally favor certain MU's?
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
trigger 347
Harstem 280
Hui .269
ProTech105
MindelVK 48
Vindicta 45
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 10930
Sea 3717
Hyuk 3689
Snow 540
Light 400
Stork 264
Soulkey 218
Last 160
Zeus 137
PianO 123
[ Show more ]
Sea.KH 57
TY 56
ToSsGirL 55
Rush 49
sorry 41
hero 34
Nal_rA 24
Noble 18
Yoon 16
scan(afreeca) 16
Terrorterran 13
IntoTheRainbow 10
HiyA 8
zelot 7
ivOry 4
Dota 2
Gorgc5675
qojqva3089
syndereN394
XcaliburYe383
Fuzer 263
League of Legends
Dendi311
Counter-Strike
byalli263
olofmeister239
Foxcn200
fl0m0
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor120
Other Games
singsing2921
B2W.Neo1476
C9.Mang0697
crisheroes440
FrodaN415
DeMusliM315
Beastyqt313
Lowko285
Mew2King151
Mlord148
ArmadaUGS128
XaKoH 101
elazer93
KnowMe38
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV567
Other Games
BasetradeTV19
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 19
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3411
League of Legends
• Nemesis5961
• Jankos2461
• TFBlade948
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 25m
ArT vs ReBellioN
HonMonO vs Ziomek
Shameless vs LunaSea
MilkiCow vs GgMaChine
Moja vs HiGhDrA
Jumy vs TBD
Demi vs NightPhoenix
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
9h 25m
OSC
9h 25m
WardiTV Invitational
20h 25m
OSC
22h 25m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 12h
SOOP
1d 18h
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
1d 19h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 20h
Cheesadelphia
2 days
[ Show More ]
CSO Cup
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.