SC2 - Moon vs ret? - SC Weekly Feb. 11

On February 11 2010 16:24 SonuvBob wrote:
@Artosis why so sexy?

On February 11 2010 16:07 Artosis wrote:
guess pls lol.

On February 11 2010 17:49 Alphonsse wrote:
Really amazing that moon, one of the best war3 players ever, can takes games off of B teamers in sc. I actually posted in that b league results thread that I didn't believe it was the war3 player moon.

On February 11 2010 20:37 georgir wrote:
Oh damn, these videos are just of some guy talking, and I don't even have sound on this PC.
I was hoping for a match VOD from the beta :p

On February 11 2010 21:15 .AbrHAm wrote:
I think they are more player from wc3 that will pwn the shit out of sc2...

On February 11 2010 21:36 TheAntZ wrote:

seeing as sc2 resembles wc3 more then sc...that may not be far from the truth

On February 11 2010 18:25 ShaperofDreams wrote:
An Idra, Ret, Nony, White-ra semifinal = my head exploding as semen sprays out of my ears.

On February 11 2010 20:06 NiGoL wrote:
Nice one Artosis! pretty sweet.
but i tipped you before put up a "rumor of the week" in the show. Everyone loves some drama and some rumors, so just put that in the show. Anyways it was great as usual keep it up!

On February 11 2010 16:51 Ftrunkz wrote:
For next week, can you please make it so that the 'twitter questions' are at the end? I'd rather hear all the news I dont really care (and im sure im not alone) about twitter questions about what to do when terrans camping in the middle of the vid ><.

Much appreciated as always tho

On February 12 2010 00:31 Jarvs wrote:
Moon is a genius, yes, but he's far from the best war3 player on the scene atm. That may be due to the amount of SC he's playing, but I wouldn't think FOX would hire him to casually play on the B-Team as well as for the War3 competitions. But who knows.

On February 12 2010 00:31 Jarvs wrote:
Moon is a genius, yes, but he's far from the best war3 player on the scene atm. That may be due to the amount of SC he's playing, but I wouldn't think FOX would hire him to casually play on the B-Team as well as for the War3 competitions. But who knows.

On February 12 2010 00:31 Jarvs wrote:
Moon is a genius, yes, but he's far from the best war3 player on the scene atm. That may be due to the amount of SC he's playing, but I wouldn't think FOX would hire him to casually play on the B-Team as well as for the War3 competitions. But who knows.

On February 12 2010 04:01 NiGoL wrote:
Wasnt Moon a SC/BW player from the beginning and switched to war3? if im not totally wrong?
ya its amazing that Moon can take games from decent bw players, just means that war3 players does have a sense for BW and when BW gamers and war3 players merge for SC2 it will be a really big competition and many new players that will struggle to be at the top.

On February 12 2010 06:02 Mobius wrote:
"Protoss - Imbalanced" is what he was going to say.. nice cover up though hehe.

On February 11 2010 21:36 TheAntZ wrote:

seeing as sc2 resembles wc3 more then sc...that may not be far from the truth

On February 12 2010 06:17 BlackYoshi wrote:

The game will never be as micro intensive as WC3. SC will remain a macro game because of the army sizes, and how fast units die compared to WC3, making most micro fairly irrelevant besides stuff like Mutas/Vults etc

I really don't know who will dominate the SC2 scene. It won't be the best SC pros because they will be stuck playing Brood War in Korea. It may or may not be the best WC3 pros. Maybe it will be the old pros who's creativity and strategic understanding have long been buried under superior mechanics players (it would be amazing to see Boxer, Oov, etc make comebacks)

On February 12 2010 06:17 BlackYoshi wrote:

The game will never be as micro intensive as WC3. SC will remain a macro game because of the army sizes, and how fast units die compared to WC3, making most micro fairly irrelevant besides stuff like Mutas/Vults etc

I really don't know who will dominate the SC2 scene. It won't be the best SC pros because they will be stuck playing Brood War in Korea. It may or may not be the best WC3 pros. Maybe it will be the old pros who's creativity and strategic understanding have long been buried under superior mechanics players (it would be amazing to see Boxer, Oov, etc make comebacks)

On February 12 2010 09:00 rasers wrote:

have u ever played SCII at some event?
it FEELS more like wc3. no matter if its micro based or macro based. and yeah mb not big but just think about the building grouping. wc3 users for example are used 2 have more buildings in 1 grp. while u go back 2 base and use every single building. mb not such a big thing but still something.

and yeah its more about the feeling ant not about micro/macro based or whatever.

On February 12 2010 09:33 TeWy wrote:


I've got this feeling that you're a troll, am I right ?
A lot of Starcraft players having plaid Starcraft2 have stated that it felt really similar to SC1, and just because you felt the other way doesn't make it wrong.

I've plaid both games intensively, and these kind of silly comparaisons make me angry, cause they're so dumb and always come from players who've only plaid one of the 2 games.
Obviously if someone has never really got into War3, he will never feel that Starcraft2 is more like Warcraft3, that is pure non-sense.

On February 12 2010 09:37 wishbones wrote:
isnt moon from wc3, gg ret wins... moon isnot used to a game where u have more than one base, ret wins again, moon is not used to microing a real mans game, ret wins again gg. Moon lost. moon lsot!

On February 12 2010 06:17 BlackYoshi wrote:

The game will never be as micro intensive as WC3. SC will remain a macro game because of the army sizes, and how fast units die compared to WC3, making most micro fairly irrelevant besides stuff like Mutas/Vults etc

I really don't know who will dominate the SC2 scene. It won't be the best SC pros because they will be stuck playing Brood War in Korea. It may or may not be the best WC3 pros. Maybe it will be the old pros who's creativity and strategic understanding have long been buried under superior mechanics players (it would be amazing to see Boxer, Oov, etc make comebacks)

On February 12 2010 11:23 Artosis wrote:


if europe has 400 million people and korea has 50 million people, for every jaedong in korea there are 8 in europe.

On February 13 2010 05:52 Lefnui wrote:

That doesn't make any sense at all.

On February 13 2010 05:57 s.a.y wrote:


it does.

400/50 = 8

On February 13 2010 08:59 Lefnui wrote:

Wow, did you ever misunderstand and confuse the point. I didn't think I would have to explain this but it looks like I'm forced to.

The comment he made is identical to saying "Asia has a far greater population than Switzerland, therefore it must contain many, many more Roger Federers". Take a look at the ATP rankings and you'll see that doesn't really make sense. Check the KeSPA rankings and you'll discover that there are no European players even near Jaedong's level. And no, it's not merely because Korean players are on a greater stage. To assume that a continent's population will directly correlate with the amount of elite Starcraft players it contains is pure folly. You must take into account the fact that South Korea is so much stronger than any other nation in Starcraft. It's like Russia and chess, if not even more so.

I like the foreign scene in Starcraft and Warcraft III, I think that there are a lot of creative and strong players outside of South Korea. But let's be honest, it's absolutely nothing compared to the Korean scene in terms of strength. I'm really tired of seeing people deny that obvious fact.

On February 13 2010 08:59 Lefnui wrote:

Wow, did you ever misunderstand and confuse the point. I didn't think I would have to explain this but it looks like I'm forced to.

The comment he made is identical to saying "Asia has a far greater population than Switzerland, therefore it must contain many, many more Roger Federers". Take a look at the ATP rankings and you'll see that doesn't really make sense. Check the KeSPA rankings and you'll discover that there are no European players even near Jaedong's level. And no, it's not merely because Korean players are on a greater stage. To assume that a continent's population will directly correlate with the amount of elite Starcraft players it contains is pure folly. You must take into account the fact that South Korea is so much stronger than any other nation in Starcraft. It's like Russia and chess, if not even more so.

I like the foreign scene in Starcraft and Warcraft III, I think that there are a lot of creative and strong players outside of South Korea. But let's be honest, it's absolutely nothing compared to the Korean scene in terms of strength. I'm really tired of seeing people deny that obvious fact.

On February 13 2010 10:19 Raydog wrote:
great show. As an ex-war3 player, I can say that moon is one of the most innovative, gifted, and skilled war3 player, and just a great RTS player all-around. He is constantly inventing new strategies which are being used all the time, and at the same time manages to still be baller at SC.

Since sc2 is going to be brand new, all new strategies, I expect there will be a lot of unique plays on Moon's part.





I agree 100% on Korea having the best scene for SC, but not for War3. War3 isn't really separated like SC is, where SC has Pro (Korea) and Foreigners (everyone else). In War3, basically it is even across the board. You can have a guy from the Netherlands win a tourney, then the next one a korean wins, then a chinese, etc etc. China is basically the Korea for War3, but not to the extreme Korea has it. China doesn't have pro-houses, Courage, all that stuff, but they still pack the house for live war3 games like Koreans do for SC (wcg Beijing, soooo many fans during war3 games).

On February 13 2010 10:51 TeWy wrote:


Actually, there's 2 pro War3 houses in China, WE and EHOME.
But you shouldn't feed the trolls, or maybe is he not a troll and just an aggressive idiot who gets confused over his own logical fallacies, in any cases I find it futile to have a discussion with these kind of persons.
I used to think that the "thou shall respect forum veterans" rule was not great, and elitist, but when a 1 post guy starts insulting and talking down to respectable users, also misrepresenting or ignoring their arguments, there's something wrong imo.

On February 13 2010 09:07 iG.SwOrD wrote:
I dont understand all of this Ret hype when he is like 25? years old and i dont see him playing bw in 1 year. (ITS JUST NOT RIGHT IMO, GET A WIFE)

On February 13 2010 17:50 Puosu wrote:

People like you are one of the biggest reason the western esports scene is nowhere near Korea.

On February 13 2010 08:59 Lefnui wrote:

Wow, did you ever misunderstand and confuse the point. I didn't think I would have to explain this but it looks like I'm forced to.

The comment he made is identical to saying "Asia has a far greater population than Switzerland, therefore it must contain many, many more Roger Federers". Take a look at the ATP rankings and you'll see that doesn't really make sense. Check the KeSPA rankings and you'll discover that there are no European players even near Jaedong's level. And no, it's not merely because Korean players are on a greater stage. To assume that a continent's population will directly correlate with the amount of elite Starcraft players it contains is pure folly. You must take into account the fact that South Korea is so much stronger than any other nation in Starcraft. It's like Russia and chess, if not even more so.

I like the foreign scene in Starcraft and Warcraft III, I think that there are a lot of creative and strong players outside of South Korea. But let's be honest, it's absolutely nothing compared to the Korean scene in terms of strength. I'm really tired of seeing people deny that obvious fact.

On February 13 2010 19:30 iG.SwOrD wrote:


People like me got life and dont live in fantasy movies like you. Life is not bw scene sonn i think you should get a glance at reality. Being a korean esport suckup will get you nowhere in lifee you know? How about you leave the game to the kids at 15 and leave people at 25 like Ret handle real life?

it's just not right? why can't ret enjoy computer games, just because he's 25? he'll be a solid player if he puts his mind to it, just like he is in sc1.

he can still live life and play bw too, just like he's doing now

who the fuck are you to tell ret to get a wife or stop playing sc

On February 13 2010 19:49 iG.SwOrD wrote:



Another super nerd. He can enjoy computer game till he dies thats not the point. The point is you cant have a normal life study/work/social life and in the same time spend five hours on bw. People at his age have finished uni , got prospective jobs , gf , flat . HOW ABOUT YOU GET A FUCKING GRIP NERD? When sc2 comes around thousands of kids will start playing the game , they will play it all day because they can afford it. WHERE DO YOU SEE RET THERE? He is gonna dumb his life to be good at a computer game? WOW

On February 13 2010 19:49 iG.SwOrD wrote:



Another super nerd. He can enjoy computer game till he dies thats not the point. The point is you cant have a normal life study/work/social life and in the same time spend five hours on bw. People at his age have finished uni , got prospective jobs , gf , flat . HOW ABOUT YOU GET A FUCKING GRIP NERD? When sc2 comes around thousands of kids will start playing the game , they will play it all day because they can afford it. WHERE DO YOU SEE RET THERE? He is gonna dumb his life to be good at a computer game? WOW

On February 13 2010 19:54 Puosu wrote:

He fucking moved to Korea to pursue a career at Starcraft, doesn't look like he can't "afford" to devote his life to a dream. Enjoy your nine to five job and a boring life, I for one respect people who are willing to take a risk at pursuing their life long dream.

Just interested, what is your view on chess professionals?

And how do you think they or the current top SC players got there? You have to sacrifice certain things if you want to achieve something.

On February 13 2010 19:54 JohnColtrane wrote:


he's got a job, so why dont you get off his nuts and come suck on mine?

you dont know anything about ret in his private life so why dont you sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. if ret wants to play and be 'dumb', then that's what he will do

oh and, YOU FUCKING NERD

On February 13 2010 20:20 iG.SwOrD wrote:


He can do whatever he wants with his life i dont give a fuck. I doubt lot of people can take such a person seriously in life , computer addict. For a nerd like you everything is boring besides playing games. Fucking pussys..

On February 13 2010 20:46 iG.SwOrD wrote:
Jesus ive got nothing against ret im trying to give him an advice. A hundred players like kolll are gonna come along with sc2 so where does that leave him? He should focus on more important things which he is skipping while playing bw. The day after he stops playing he will be forgotten.

On February 13 2010 20:37 iG.SwOrD wrote:


Rofl trash kid. Whats his job? Flipping burgers somewhere? What his education? He lives on his own? He got a gf? He got a car? What about his social life? I know he is good at a computer game , tell me more yo.

On February 13 2010 20:37 iG.SwOrD wrote:


Rofl trash kid. Whats his job? Flipping burgers somewhere? What his education? He lives on his own? He got a gf? He got a car? What about his social life? I know he is good at a computer game , tell me more yo.

On February 13 2010 21:08 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Good stuff. Holland is going to be so good in SC2 if Grubby switches as well.

On February 14 2010 00:42 Delykat wrote:
Lol at people predicting which players will dominate sc2. You just dont understand what a massive amount of players which will give a good shot at becoming number 1. Predicting a specific person to be that guy because he was successful in a previous RTS game...it doesnt make any sense to me. Im pretty sure that none of the biggest names in wc3 or sc will win any major tournament for sc2.

On February 14 2010 00:42 Delykat wrote:
Lol at people predicting which players will dominate sc2. You just dont understand what a massive amount of players which will give a good shot at becoming number 1. Predicting a specific person to be that guy because he was successful in a previous RTS game...it doesnt make any sense to me. Im pretty sure that none of the biggest names in wc3 or sc will win any major tournament for sc2.

On February 13 2010 10:19 Raydog wrote:
great show. As an ex-war3 player, I can say that moon is one of the most innovative, gifted, and skilled war3 player, and just a great RTS player all-around. He is constantly inventing new strategies which are being used all the time, and at the same time manages to still be baller at SC.

Since sc2 is going to be brand new, all new strategies, I expect there will be a lot of unique plays on Moon's part.





I agree 100% on Korea having the best scene for SC, but not for War3. War3 isn't really separated like SC is, where SC has Pro (Korea) and Foreigners (everyone else). In War3, basically it is even across the board. You can have a guy from the Netherlands win a tourney, then the next one a korean wins, then a chinese, etc etc. China is basically the Korea for War3, but not to the extreme Korea has it. China doesn't have pro-houses, Courage, all that stuff, but they still pack the house for live war3 games like Koreans do for SC (wcg Beijing, soooo many fans during war3 games).

On February 13 2010 19:30 iG.SwOrD wrote:


People like me got life and dont live in fantasy movies like you. Life is not bw scene sonn i think you should get a glance at reality. Being a korean esport suckup will get you nowhere in lifee you know? How about you leave the game to the kids at 15 and leave people at 25 like Ret handle real life?

On February 14 2010 02:39 Lefnui wrote:

That's simply not true at all. I agree with you that it's not at all to the extent of Korean domination in Starcraft, but South Korea has still been the strongest nation in Warcraft III by far. And your assertion that China is that country in Warcraft III is wrong. I can name an endless amount of former elite, pro players in Warcraft III from South Korea.

Moon, Lucifer, Lyn, FoCuS, Kenshin, Susiria, GoStop, DayFly, SocceR, FreeDom, EvenStar, Sweet, ShowTime, Swain, Romeo, FoV, Anyppi, May, EVE, Rainbow, ReiGn, SouthSea, NangChun, FarSeer, WhO, BerA, Space, ReMinD, SoJu, viOLet, Myth, Check, WinNers, MichaeL and Shy.

That's by no means a complete list, just the Korean pro players that came to mind instantly. I think you'd be hard-pressed to make such a list for any other country, including China. I could go on and on digging up quotes from European players like MaDFroG discussing how superior the Korean scene is, or Grubby saying how shocked he was by the level of skill when 4K traveled to South Korea in order to join the Prime League. But I think it should be clear to anyone with a good sense of the Wacraft III scene that South Korea has been dominant.

On February 11 2010 17:49 Alphonsse wrote:
Really amazing that moon, one of the best war3 players ever, can takes games off of B teamers in sc. I actually posted in that b league results thread that I didn't believe it was the war3 player moon.

On February 21 2010 00:14 emucxg wrote:

nothing special compared to Jaedong or Flash's FPVOD =)

On February 19 2010 01:00 anotheracc wrote:


To put it simply, half of the war3 pro's are foreing and half are Koreans. Besides, if you think of all top players in time at least half of them are Koreans: Moon, Remind, Lyn, GoStop, Check, Sweet, FoV, ShowTime etc...

On February 23 2010 05:19 KingKRule wrote:


oh yeah, man Ian Thorpe's records are nothing special compared to Michael Phelps'

Larry Bird is nothing special compared to Michael Jordan

that other golfer guy is nothing special compared to Tiger woods

Rafael Nadal is nothing special compared to Roger Federer

On February 19 2010 01:00 anotheracc wrote:


To put it simply, half of the war3 pro's are foreing and half are Koreans. Besides, if you think of all top players in time at least half of them are Koreans: Moon, Remind, Lyn, GoStop, Check, Sweet, FoV, ShowTime etc...

On February 13 2010 21:08 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Good stuff. Holland is going to be so good in SC2 if Grubby switches as well.