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I really loved some of the suggested handicaps people came up with, and hopefully we can come up with some good ones to be used.
Here are some that I came up with:
1. Chobolings:
No zergling upgrades allowed
2. Mutalack:
No mutalisks allowed
3. Strange ritual:
Workers must swing around CC/Nexus/Hatchery 3 times before starting to work.
4. Double Double:
When an expansion is taken, another must be taken as well before any additional building is built.
5. Probe Toss:
One of initial workers must either be killed or sent scouting.
6. Vespene Gasps:
When any gas structure is completed, one worker must always be attacking it until it is destroyed (can be rebuilt of course).
7. Fiddlesticks:
Must cancel each new building at start of construction (basically increased building cost by 25%). For instance, start supply depot, cancel at 1hp, and build again.
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I love all of these except the double double.. it's just too harsh! But I guess that's not a problem since you decide the rules yourself.
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The Worker ritual is a bit much...
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No buildings in "main." (Must be built outside where they would be vulnerable).
No add-ons for T.
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Probe Toss is basically just sending one initial worker scouting. Nobody's gonna waste time killing it when it can actually be useful : just imagine when it scouts the enemy what it's gonna do. And a good player's micro is way better than the micro of a D player. So that's not a great handicap here imo.
Vespene Gasps may be interesting but I think it's just gonna be too hard after a few minutes. Eventually the pro will just forget about it and he'll die because he won't have enough gas. So yeah .. It's interesting but I think it's too hard.
I really like the last one though.
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United States47024 Posts
Strange ritual, double double, and fiddlesticks seem hard to enforce. When you have multiple bases, and lots of workers coming out at once, it's not like an observer is going to be able to count that every one went around 3 times before starting, for example.
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I like vespene gasps it adds a bit of strategy and planning 
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Power outwhelming
Upon the call of the gladiator's opponent, the gladiator has to stop controlling his units once for 20 seconds during the game.
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Crystallized - The next game must be played on Crystallized.
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On February 01 2010 09:22 TheYango wrote:
Strange ritual, double double, and fiddlesticks seem hard to enforce. When you have multiple bases, and lots of workers coming out at once, it's not like an observer is going to be able to count that every one went around 3 times before starting, for example.
That's true, but there may be replay/VOD, and I'm sure that since it's for fun, the person will make his best effort to abide by it.
Also, at least for yesterday's arena, there were multiple observers in the game, so making one of them a "ref" shouldnt' be too hard. Just knowing that three people may or may not be watching your moves should make the person abide by the handicaps (big brother).
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Shikaka - when the challenger says Shikaka for the first time during the game, the hero can't do anything for five seconds. + Show Spoiler +
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How about one where you can't get max energy increases, like more templar energy.
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Play with no broodwar units, dts lurk medics ecc...
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On February 01 2010 09:36 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
How about one where you can't get max energy increases, like more templar energy.
that would make like 0 difference, seeing as you can get by fine without it anyways.
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No dropships/shuttles/overlord transportation upgrade thingy. Probably already suggested/used before, but whatever.
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Fear of loneliness
Everytime a unit goes somewhere, be it scouting, building a biulding, expanding, attacking, etc., a second unit must be sent with him (for ex. when you want to build something with scv, you have the second scv next to the building all the time).
Laziness
Workers can't be sent to mine (or to do anything) after being produced, before a next worker is produced from the same building (so if workers are cut, there always must be 1 per nex/cc/hatch that was building them, and if multiple drones are being built simultaneously in a hatchery, 1 of them should stay doing nothing).
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Diversity- The hero is only allowed up to 12 of each unit.(excluding workers)
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Mouse only- mouse only!
No hotkeys- no hotkeys
no upgrades or only armor upgrades
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Netherlands6142 Posts
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Stay short:
No range upgrades
No room for more:
No +4 interceptors for carriers and No+5scarabs for reaver
Group sucide:
Hero must send 5 workers to atack enemy base every 4min, after the 5min mark in the game
Delay mining:
Hero must wait 3min after his expansion building is up before transfering workers
No air or Ground power:
Hero can't upgrade air or ground weapons
No speed on your team:
Hero can't upgrade any speed (lins, ultras, zealots, scouts, observers, vultures)
I''ll post more later must go for now tell me what you think XD
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Really crazy zerg- No tier 2 units (i.e lurkers, queens and mutals)
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You can literally come up with a million handicaps...
like anything that involves taking out a specific skill or upgrade~
limiting tech~
unit limitation~
etc
i think a good one would be to just let the noob decide two skills, upgrades, or units that the hero can't use
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On February 01 2010 10:05 stanley_ wrote:
Mouse only- mouse only!
No hotkeys- no hotkeys
no upgrades or only armor upgrades
oh man I played Ver once and he off-raced, while talking on the phone, while only using mouse... and he fucking destroyed me 
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Netherlands6142 Posts
So I guess I should reply in this topic...
Coming up with handicaps is really difficult. There are a massive amount of factors that come into play when making a handicap pool. It is therefore that I usually don't comment on the HCs suggested in the topics because if they're not picked, one can probably, with some common sense, figure out why they are really bad.
It's cool to see how people are interested in this though, so I guess I should invest some time explaining a couple of things.
I've been working on a FAQ for Arena since certain questions were asked pretty frequently. Doing this, I've tried to think about how one makes a good handicap. Quoting the HC bit from the FAQ:
+ Show Spoiler +Why wasn't my handicap picked?
It probably won't work as well as you thought, cannot be monitored by the refs, has no show element or is just plain retarded.
Okay then, what makes a good handicap?
There are a couple of things that make a bad handicap.
The offline handicap - "Has to play with ovenmittenslol
There's no way of us to check this (other than trust the Hero) and it either won't show in the games or be so detrimental that he'll just roll over and die right off the bat.
The area-bound handicap - "No maybard/scouting"
Although "base" and "expansion" seem pretty straightforward they really aren't. Also "yeah I was gonna build a building there but I changed my mind" is a pretty good excuse for the examples.
The do handicap - "Yeah he's gotta plague his army lol"
Handcaps are mostly about what he can't do. If you tell he has to do something it raises when?/how?/where? questions - which makes the whole thing rather complicated - and if his opponent ggs before he can do whatever it is he has to do does he lose?
The undoable handicap - "Can only morph from the left-most larvae"
The sole concept of playing with handicaps is hard. You have to remember what they are and drop some thing you are really really used to. Some things are therefore pretty undoable for a player. On top of that we don't want to go kESPA on his ass when he forgets, but just give him a reminder nudge. Therefore handicaps need to be checkable (i.e. nothing involving supply numbers).
Furthermore keep in mind that we try to go for non match-up specific handicaps.
Please read this as I might refer back to it when addressing your suggestions.
I've put my thoughts about them in the spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +On February 01 2010 09:04 Danger_Duck wrote:
1. Chobolings:
No zergling upgrades allowed
2. Mutalack:
No mutalisks allowed
3. Strange ritual:
Workers must swing around CC/Nexus/Hatchery 3 times before starting to work.. 1. Zerglings are all a Zerg has in the first phase of the game. We didn't go with this in the Zerg episode since we already has a cap on the Sunkens. The two HCs combined might have made a C- level Sunken bust too strong. Also I'm really unsure what this will do in ZvZ. 2. Think about what you're doing here. In ZvT and ZvP this won't be a problem. You're not crippling the Hero, you're simply limiting his options (it's not the same). Lurkers/Hydra can do fine, even versus even-level players. In ZvZ we'll either see pure-ling play (which the Hero will win cause he's better) or Hydra shenanigans (which the Hero will win cause the fodder doesn't know how to deal with it). I feel this is one of the handicaps where you sat down and though "You know what would be cool? Hydra's in ZvZ! Now how do I make that happen...". This is not the way to go about things. 3. What is "swing?" If you make 80 workers in a game you have to do this 80 times? Can't be done man. On February 01 2010 09:04 Danger_Duck wrote:
4. Double Double:
When an expansion is taken, another must be taken as well before any additional building is built.
5. Probe Toss:
One of initial workers must either be killed or sent scouting.
6. Vespene Gasps:
When any gas structure is completed, one worker must always be attacking it until it is destroyed (can be rebuilt of course).
7. Fiddlesticks:
Must cancel each new building at start of construction (basically increased building cost by 25%). For instance, start supply depot, cancel at 1hp, and build again. 4. Can you define "take"? I have no idea what this would do, but it sounds like an insentive for 1 base play. At this point I'll pauze to point out one major factor of Arena. If the hero wants, he can proxy two gate every game. He would win this cause he's better. There is no way to stop this from happening and really the only downside is that he'd become known as "that guy who cheeses noobs". As most HCs have a greater effect the longer the game progresses we don't really want to invoke one-base play. 5. Kill initial worker is actually pretty good. It shows them down just a little, giving the fodder a bit more space to set up for a mid game in which the other handicaps will kick in more. I heard this is actually a training method for professionals. 6. Cute, especially for Terran/Protoss. Before implementing it I'd run some calculations though. 7. I like how you increase the cost of buildings by a bit. It sounds undoable though later in the game when you're spamming turrets/sup deps or pylon walls/cannons. For Zerg it might be cute but it'd probably only slow them down earlier in the game. On February 01 2010 09:10 9287 wrote:
supply cap at 150 There isn't really a way of checking this. With Team Melee we can get it done but only on 3+p maps and it'd require extra personnel. Might consider it though. On February 01 2010 09:28 Intr3pid wrote:
Power outwhelming
Upon the call of the gladiator's opponent, the gladiator has to stop controlling his units once for 20 seconds during the game. Shikaka! Glad to see you took the trouble to read the topic. I'm not sure I like Fodder-triggered handicaps. Also I doubt it'd really be a handicap. On February 01 2010 09:28 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Crystallized - The next game must be played on Crystallized. That's not a handicap that's a map. On February 01 2010 09:36 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
How about one where you can't get max energy increases, like more templar energy. Would require team melee obsing, constant checking of spell casters and it won't ever happen anyway. On February 01 2010 09:58 ZBiR wrote:
Fear of loneliness
Everytime a unit goes somewhere, be it scouting, building a biulding, expanding, attacking, etc., a second unit must be sent with him (for ex. when you want to build something with scv, you have the second scv next to the building all the time).
Laziness
Workers can't be sent to mine (or to do anything) after being produced, before a next worker is produced from the same building (so if workers are cut, there always must be 1 per nex/cc/hatch that was building them, and if multiple drones are being built simultaneously in a hatchery, 1 of them should stay doing nothing). 1) See 7. by Danger Duck. 2) Seems really impossible to do/enforce. On February 01 2010 10:03 DM20 wrote:
Diversity- The hero is only allowed up to 12 of each unit.(excluding workers)
See 2 above. On February 01 2010 10:05 stanley_ wrote:
Mouse only- mouse only!
No hotkeys- no hotkeys
no upgrades or only armor upgrades
1/2 no showelement, not checkable. 3 good one. On February 01 2010 10:14 checo wrote:
Stay short:
No range upgrades
No room for more:
No +4 interceptors for carriers and No+5scarabs for reaver
Group sucide:
Hero must send 5 workers to atack enemy base every 4min, after the 5min mark in the game
1) Seems okay, think we used it for Nyoken 2) deL used "no interceptor upgrades". Now stop for a minute and think. In PvZ and PvP we don't ever see Carriers. How often in PvT? Maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 games? On a good day? Maybe 5 in 10 if you're Leg? So in the off chance that Carriers will be used (which they now won't) in a match up that will only come up 1/3rd of the time you're crippling the Carriers. Not good man. Also, I'm pretty sure the +scarab upgrade never happens in pro games, let alone is needed vs noobs. 3) Seems like a really arbitrary, really odd thing to do. On February 01 2010 10:14 checo wrote:
Delay mining:
Hero must wait 3min after his expansion building is up before transfering workers
No air or Ground power:
Hero can't upgrade air or ground weapons
No speed on your team:
Hero can't upgrade any speed (lins, ultras, zealots, scouts, observers, vultures)
1) See the FAQ (although it might be good - how did you come up with 3 minutes? Why not 2/4?) 2) good one 3) See 1. by DangerDuck On February 01 2010 10:14 n.DieJokes wrote:
Really crazy zerg- No tier 2 units (i.e lurkers, queens and mutals) Deprive us of Infested Terrans why dontcha Seriously though, how much thought have you given this?
So yeah, hope this sheds some light on the how-to of handicaps. PM me with any questions.
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On February 02 2010 02:46 Pholon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2010 09:04 Danger_Duck wrote:
1. Chobolings:
No zergling upgrades allowed 1. Zerglings are all a Zerg has in the first phase of the game. We didn't go with this in the Zerg episode since we already has a cap on the Sunkens. The two HCs combined might have made a C- level Sunken bust too strong. Also I'm really unsure what this will do in ZvZ.
Being a zerg player, I think this is entirely possible. In ZvP, the zerg would not be able to be as aggressive with denying expos and would use more sunkens for defense rather than lings. In ZvT, the zerg would also use more sunkens in the early game. It would basically be a hinderance throughout in both matchups, very noticable, and have a decent impact. In high level ZvZ, speed lings are very important. However, it would be a hinderance for the pro and they would be required to go hydras or defend into straight mutas.
On February 02 2010 02:46 Pholon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2010 09:04 Danger_Duck wrote:
6. Vespene Gasps:
When any gas structure is completed, one worker must always be attacking it until it is destroyed (can be rebuilt of course).
7. Fiddlesticks:
Must cancel each new building at start of construction (basically increased building cost by 25%). For instance, start supply depot, cancel at 1hp, and build again. 6. Cute, especially for Terran/Protoss. Before implementing it I'd run some calculations though. 7. I like how you increase the cost of buildings by a bit. It sounds undoable though later in the game when you're spamming turrets/sup deps or pylon walls/cannons. For Zerg it might be cute but it'd probably only slow them down earlier in the game.
6. I think this is fairly significant for all the races. It will keep the pro's attention, or get it when they realize they're hurting for gas. Adds a cool dynamic. Easily enforced. As for gameplay, might effect early gas builds, especially for zerg, but it doesn't seem too bad.
7. I don't think it's undoable at all. It would take the pro longer to do things since they need to wait until it's begun before moving their screen (to cancel and restart). The amount of resources would add up and it would actually be quite significant. I don't know if this would be too big of a handicap but I like it.
On February 02 2010 02:46 Pholon wrote:There isn't really a way of checking this. With Team Melee we can get it done but only on 3+p maps and it'd require extra personnel. Might consider it though.
Can't you use the observermode plugin? I think that shows supply but I could be wrong.
Edit: Forgot 7 first time.
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Alright, since Pholon has read and replied, I'm doubtful he'll read anymore.
Thanks again for all the suggestions!
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Add a CPU ally to the gladiator. The CPU ally must be kept alive at all costs.
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^ Double the amount of units vs the challenger? How is that a handicap? Even if the challenger focuses on the CPU, he will still suffer unit losses.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 01 2010 09:29 Danger_Duck wrote:
That's true, but there may be replay/VOD, and I'm sure that since it's for fun, the person will make his best effort to abide by it.
Also, at least for yesterday's arena, there were multiple observers in the game, so making one of them a "ref" shouldnt' be too hard. Just knowing that three people may or may not be watching your moves should make the person abide by the handicaps (big brother).
And what happens when they don't abide by it? The way these specific ones are, they could be on accident, and with replay/VOD, do you give them a game loss after the fact?
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Instead of no mutalisks, make it he isn't allowed to stack them
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No fly zone: Can't make air units (including drops) (perhaps consider letting z make ovys though, but can't use them to drop) and cannot float buildings as terran.
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How about strategic HCs?
Must 9 pool
-Hero must always 9 pool, and unless its ZvZ, hero must build 3 drones at once when the pool hatches(instead of the typical 6 lings)
-Hero cannot do ling runby's or use any form of early ling agression before lair.
Enervate
-Hero cannot upgrade armor/weapons.
No cheddar
-Hero must use a 'standard' build that doesn't involve early agression.
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On February 02 2010 09:18 kyzers0ze wrote:
1 base zerg
extremely dumb. encourages cheese too much
On February 02 2010 10:00 Nightmarjoo wrote:
No fly zone: Can't make air units (including drops) (perhaps consider letting z make ovys though, but can't use them to drop) and cannot float buildings as terran.
could be good, but might be too harsh coupled with other handicaps
On February 02 2010 10:10 win8282 wrote:
How about strategic HCs?
Must 9 pool
-Hero must always 9 pool, and unless its ZvZ, hero must build 3 drones at once when the pool hatches(instead of the typical 6 lings)
-Hero cannot do ling runby's or use any form of early ling agression before lair.
Enervate
-Hero cannot upgrade armor/weapons.
No cheddar
-Hero must use a 'standard' build that doesn't involve early agression.
must 9 pool is dumb. you see the same thing every game and thats no fun at all.
enervate has been used before in various forms.
no cheddar is awful - standard is WAY too undefinable and it really just makes the games less fun and varied.
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Dope Casters:
For every caster unit that you normally see (Vessel, defiler, HT, arbiter), the hero must produce one underused caster (DA, queen, ghost).
If this isn't easy enough to enforce, maybe the hero should make an underused caster before making common casters. Maybe every common caster research requires an underused caster research first.
I dunno. This seems like it would make games more fun instead of less fun, but there are issues with making it work. Someone refine this.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On February 02 2010 09:26 Caller wrote:
Add a CPU ally to the gladiator. The CPU ally must be kept alive at all costs.
While I like this, the CPU is too unpredictable at times. Some comps are just better than others as well. I think this could be decent as long as the newbie also gets a comp on his side as well. Cause when the comp rushes (and it definitely will), if the gladiator/challenger goes to attack with the comp, it's 100% GG for the newbie.
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call a friend - the challenger (non gladiator) can call a friend to give him tips, advice and information for 20 secs (one time use only).
of course the 'friend' must be an obs
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This would only work on Team Melee setting...
Unit Wranglin':
One observer constantly changes the setting of the hero's rally points to random locations on the map
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Mage's Apprentice: can only use non-upgraded spells that come with a caster. HT and Arbiters, would only be able to Archon morph and Cloak respectively.
WW1: Terran heroes can only use Marines, Firebats, un-sieged Tanks, Wraiths, and Science Vessels. Wraiths cannon cloak and Science Vessels can only be used for detection.
One colony: Zerg must connect all bases on one landmass with creep. (I understand that this one would be very difficult for the zerg player, but it's basically saying, "you're limited to 2 gas, or 2 bases". Also, if the noob managed to hold out watching the hero get his third would be really interesting. Island expo's would be legit.
Warrior's Honor: Protoss may not produce arbiters, HT, DT, Reavers, Carriers, or Scouts.
Just some idea's I had for each race, though I think that the Zerg one would be hardest to pull off.
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There are obviously the unit handicaps, like no templars, no tanks, no carriers etc..
There are the no upgrade handicaps like no leg-speed, no goon-range, no seige-mode etc..
There are situational handicaps, like shared vision w/ opponent, 5 gateways max, no hive etc..
There could be situational-unit handicaps like no air units (cept obs ofc.) or stone-age units like only basic (zeal/goon, hydra/ling, mm)
Or "I'm too good for that unit" in which u skip the basic units (zeal, marines, lings) and only build from the next stage up or better, goons/hydra/vults+
or Player is only allowed 1 expansion at a time.
duno..
lots of possibilities.
gL
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For protoss -
The first upgrade researched must always be protoss shields. (This includes non-forge upgrades such as storm, legs, maelstrom, or scout speed upgrade).
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i was really thinking some closer to ONLY tier two.
so sunkens, then mutas or lurkers. i'd let the hero get hive, but only for upgrades.
or as toss, must cannon (otherwise get rolled by any tier one), then go reavers/obs/shuttles, dt/ht, archons, sairs/scouts. no carriers or arbiters.
sadly, this won't work for terrans
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On February 02 2010 11:17 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:i was really thinking some closer to ONLY tier two. so sunkens, then mutas or lurkers. i'd let the hero get hive, but only for upgrades. or as toss, must cannon (otherwise get rolled by any tier one), then go reavers/obs/shuttles, dt/ht, archons, sairs/scouts. no carriers or arbiters. sadly, this won't work for terrans
no lings/hydras is literally impossible no? how would you beat mass goliath/valk
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Cheesy Noob.
no buildings can be built in main.(except nexus of course). ramp/choke separating the main from everything else.
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protoss: hero manor pylons themself with their first pylon.
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Hostile takeover: whenever you destroy an Nex/CC/Hatch, you must build a Nex/CC/Hatch over it. (must be done before you take out another expo.)
Exception: non-mining hatch.
Infest: (zerg only) Against Terran, you may not destroy any CC (only infest allowed). Against Protoss or Zerg, cast ensnare over any expo before destroying it.
SCOUTS!: (protoss only) Hero's only air units allowed are scouts and observers. (This also blocks shuttles)
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snake: all buildings must built so that they are touching another building (all originating from a cc/nex/mining hatch and can't leave gaps to be filled in later)
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hi dan-ger
zchen's probe build is a classic: kill one worker at the start of game with other 3 workers. not as crippling as it sounds...he still beats me with it t.t
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MSL Space Station: Once the newbie has a build order advantage all players must unpower their computers. Proceeding this, KeSPA will decide the winner based on the VOD.
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The good ol' days
Player is not allowed to set rally points for any of his buildings.
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EPT
