| Forum Index > BW General |
|
Illusion.
United States348 Posts
EAT MORE CAKE vs Victorious Secret ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) deathgod6< Destination >![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) numLockCard5harko6< Match Point >AltaiR_NR< Outsider >![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png) sixduckQikz< Heartbreak Ridge >ShiladieACE < Fighting Spirit > ACE GGS mates. ^.^ | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:17 Holgerius wrote: Aware has got a point IMO; I have a hard time understanding why one would cheese in CPL. When progamers cheese in important tournaments I'm completely fine with that. Winning games is their job and there's plenty of money involved in it. This, however, is a tournament that is about improving as a SC player in a friendly, fun and still sort of competetive enviroment. I really doubt you improve very much by doing all-in builds that wins just because the opponent (me :D) is a fucking noob and fails to realize what is going on despite scouting it (I had never played against the build in my entire life).  If your opponent thought like that, then you should just 14 CC every game. Or 4 CC before rax. CPL is meant to prepare you for the cold, hard world that is out there, and unfortunately, the real world is not NR 15 min. If you want to improve ONLY your standard play, then there are your team mates for that. You shouldn't be expecting CPL matches to be practice games, where the point of the match is to improve what you want to improve, because they're not. | ||
|
AwarE--
United States70 Posts
| ||
|
wrags
United States379 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:20 Nevuk wrote: Playing cheese builds frequently lets the cheesing player work on multitasking in ways they otherwise never would. For example, my pvt macro and micro improved immeasurably when I went through a stint of going 10/15 gate in every pvt for about 2 months straight. edit : The complainers might have a point if he had done a 4 pool, but a 9 hatch 9 pool 2 hatch lurker that was apparently scouted is probably more difficult to execute than to stop. Granted, the majority of the difficulty is denying scouting in a lot of builds like this, but it still requires a pretty good sense of timing. I'm highly curious to see the replay if the guy truly pulled it off in a zvz - that takes balls haha. god shut up you whiny ass bitch jesus edit shine? rofl | ||
|
frozenkatkiller
United States168 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:26 wrags wrote: god shut up you whiny ass bitch jesus edit shine? rofl crusin' for ban | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:26 wrags wrote: god shut up you whiny ass bitch jesus edit shine? rofl shine does horrible things to you in your sleep, and I know that you like it | ||
|
numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:25 ketomai wrote: If your opponent thought like that, then you should just 14 CC every game. Or 4 CC before rax. CPL is meant to prepare you for the cold, hard world that is out there, and unfortunately, the real world is not NR 15 min. If you want to improve ONLY your standard play, then there are your team mates for that. You shouldn't be expecting CPL matches to be practice games, where the point of the match is to improve what you want to improve, because they're not. But CPL isn't meant for builds that are "coinflip" win/lose situations either. It also isn't meant for build sniping or the like. It is meant for players to improve, and then test their improvement against other players like them. Personally, I don't want to test my improvement against someone doing a ridiculous cheese. Now, I don't know about the 9 pool -> 2 hat lurk, because its not really thaat cheesy. The build is very aggressive and depends upon dealing damage, but its no 4 pool. For me, seeing someone do that makes me think, was he really practicing that build all week? What does he gain from that, other than learning the timings of some ridiculous, oneshot build? Personally, I wouldn't do it, but its nothing to complain over. I mean ya, I could bulldog just about any D level terran player, but why would I do that in a league meant for learning and improvement? | ||
|
AwarE--
United States70 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:30 numLoCK wrote: But CPL isn't meant for builds that are "coinflip" win/lose situations either. It also isn't meant for build sniping or the like. It is meant for players to improve, and then test their improvement against other players like them. Personally, I don't want to test my improvement against someone doing a ridiculous cheese. Now, I don't know about the 9 pool -> 2 hat lurk, because its not really thaat cheesy. The build is very aggressive and depends upon dealing damage, but its no 4 pool. For me, seeing someone do that makes me think, was he really practicing that build all week? What does he gain from that, other than learning the timings of some ridiculous, oneshot build? Personally, I wouldn't do it, but its nothing to complain over. I mean ya, I could bulldog just about any D level terran player, but why would I do that in a league meant for learning and improvement? No no no. Not 9pool. 9hatchery before overlord, 9pool before overlord, 9 gas before overlord. mass ling. into lurker transition vs. the terran. | ||
|
Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:30 numLoCK wrote: But CPL isn't meant for builds that are "coinflip" win/lose situations either. It also isn't meant for build sniping or the like. It is meant for players to improve, and then test their improvement against other players like them. Personally, I don't want to test my improvement against someone doing a ridiculous cheese. Now, I don't know about the 9 pool -> 2 hat lurk, because its not really thaat cheesy. The build is very aggressive and depends upon dealing damage, but its no 4 pool. For me, seeing someone do that makes me think, was he really practicing that build all week? What does he gain from that, other than learning the timings of some ridiculous, oneshot build? Personally, I wouldn't do it, but its nothing to complain over. I mean ya, I could bulldog just about any D level terran player, but why would I do that in a league meant for learning and improvement? It's wasn't 9 Pool; it was 9 Hatch first. And it was 2 Hatch Lurker drop, to be specific. | ||
|
aeroH
United States1034 Posts
T1 MagicN's vs Jessica SNSD Zozma< Destination >AeroHLordWeird< Match Point >metamage1excal< Outsider >LCCTirentu< Heartbreak Ridge >godierightnaoACE < Fighting Spirit > ACE 1-3 + Show Spoiler + my game  .booooooo pvz imba | ||
|
numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:32 Holgerius wrote: It's wasn't 9 Pool; it was 9 Hatch first. 9 hat zvt? Haven't seen that in a while... Regardless, thats an allin and a half of a build. Definitely has its place in a tournament Bo3, or to snipe a very greedy Terran, but not really in a league where learning is more important than winning. | ||
|
Illusion.
United States348 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:36 numLoCK wrote: 9 hat zvt? Haven't seen that in a while... Regardless, thats an allin and a half of a build. Definitely has its place in a tournament Bo3, or to snipe a very greedy Terran, but not really in a league where learning is more important than winning. num stop trollin <3 | ||
|
wrags
United States379 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:29 Nevuk wrote: shine does horrible things to you in your sleep, and I know that you like it if that's what you mean by horrible then i agree | ||
|
ketomai
United States2789 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:30 numLoCK wrote: But CPL isn't meant for builds that are "coinflip" win/lose situations either. It also isn't meant for build sniping or the like. It is meant for players to improve, and then test their improvement against other players like them. Personally, I don't want to test my improvement against someone doing a ridiculous cheese. Now, I don't know about the 9 pool -> 2 hat lurk, because its not really thaat cheesy. The build is very aggressive and depends upon dealing damage, but its no 4 pool. For me, seeing someone do that makes me think, was he really practicing that build all week? What does he gain from that, other than learning the timings of some ridiculous, oneshot build? Personally, I wouldn't do it, but its nothing to complain over. I mean ya, I could bulldog just about any D level terran player, but why would I do that in a league meant for learning and improvement? So then are you saying "improvement" does not encompass executing or adapting and stopping cheese builds? You can not be a good player if you can't stop cheese no matter how good your mechanics become. You will argue that it's an easy facet of your gameplay to fix, but if that were true, no one would lose/complain about it. Stopping cheese builds should be one of the first "tests of your improvement". The whole format is meant to be competitive as to motivate the players to improve more, and build sniping/predicting is part of the fun of this format. Viewing the CPL matches like practice games where there is no unpredictability defeats the purpose of having the proleague format. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:38 wrags wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7JqJd62ne4&feature=related if that's what you mean by horrible then i agree The problem is that someone gave him back his "O" key. | ||
|
Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
| ||
|
AwarE--
United States70 Posts
| ||
|
deL
Australia5540 Posts
On January 10 2010 07:39 AwarE-- wrote: I think it's funny their D player played me straight up but their D+ ace had to cheese. Good times. Stop throwing the cheese word around so much, if playing standard and safe is normal then it's smart play to use aggression to take advantage of that. That's a legitimate part of SC - outwitting the opponent before the game's even begun and I think it is something that requires experience to perfect as well. On January 10 2010 08:45 AwarE-- wrote: There's a difference between a calculated cheese and flipping a coin zvz hoping to counter someone BO-wise on a four player map. Lol that's the nature of the beast - it's hard not to flip a coin in ZvZ unless you pre-arrange before hand you're both 12hatching or overgasing or w/e. Other BO losses are less obvious than something like an all-in ling break but the only way you're going to learn to stop them is to get experience playing them and learn how to adapt in game. If you go through this league trying to improve but only in idealised, standard games suited for the exact map you're not going to get as much as you can out of it seeing 50% of games at the level you're practicing at are cheesy or all-in. | ||
|
numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
On January 10 2010 08:40 ketomai wrote: So then are you saying "improvement" does not encompass executing or adapting and stopping cheese builds? You can not be a good player if you can't stop cheese no matter how good your mechanics become. You will argue that it's an easy facet of your gameplay to fix, but if that were true, no one would lose/complain about it. Stopping cheese builds should be one of the first "tests of your improvement". The whole format is meant to be competitive as to motivate the players to improve more, and build sniping/predicting is part of the fun of this format. Viewing the CPL matches like practice games where there is no unpredictability defeats the purpose of having the proleague format. I do believe there is learning value in playing against cheese. However, I don't believe there is much learning value in doing the cheese yourself. A smart cheese against the right build can be an autowin, and nobody gains anything from this. Build sniping and the like is a part of the format, but honestly how much can you learn by studying your opponents matches or the general playstyle on the map, tailoring a build to counter it, and then practicing nothing but that build for a week? Game knowledge, learning the timings of standard BOs, and mechanics should be every player's main goals throughout practice sessions, not trying to set up a build to get an easy win. | ||
|
AwarE--
United States70 Posts
| ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War PianO Dota 2 1816ggaemo  628Hyuk 448Barracks 434Larva 358actioN 315hero 308ZerO 249Snow  226firebathero 211[ Show more ] Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Other Games singsing2020 FrodaN1918 olofmeister1357 B2W.Neo1116 mouzStarbuck176 crisheroes155 Pyrionflax117 ArmadaUGS24 ZerO(Twitch)10 |
|
Online Event
BSL Team Wars
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Online Event
SC Evo League
Online Event
OSC
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
CSO Contender
[BSL 2025] Weekly
Sparkling Tuna Cup
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
