micro and decision making is too extreme to actually pull of in such a short period of time
will be really interesting to watch it tho
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MorroW
Sweden3522 Posts
micro and decision making is too extreme to actually pull of in such a short period of time will be really interesting to watch it tho | ||
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
Human Advantages: Imagined Prediction Advantage Flexible Stategies Arguably Faster Learning AI Advantages: Able to command all units at once Usually More efficient w/ resources Instant Macro management Korean Advantages: Superior Strategies Advanced Prediction Flexible Tactics Arguably Faster Learning Able to command all units at once Usually More efficient w/ resources Instant Macro management Clever Although this challenge is going to be pretty hard, at least for the full game simulation. | ||
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Jakalo
Latvia2350 Posts
On November 14 2009 01:17 GHOSTCLAW wrote: from slashdot Show nested quote + Human Advantages: Imagined Prediction Advantage Flexible Stategies Arguably Faster Learning AI Advantages: Able to command all units at once Usually More efficient w/ resources Instant Macro management Korean Advantages: Superior Strategies Advanced Prediction Flexible Tactics Arguably Faster Learning Able to command all units at once Usually More efficient w/ resources Instant Macro management Clever lol too true *sad* | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
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ix
United Kingdom184 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On November 13 2009 23:39 azndsh wrote: This problem is so much harder than a lot of you are giving credit for. In fact the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that an AI developed by anything less than a full-time development team of really good players would have any semblance of a chance against a top human player. StarCraft is such a bad game to try to develop an AI for in the sense that there's just way too much knowledge required to play the game. Add to it the element of scouting and fog of war just makes the game unbelievably difficult for AI to play. Show nested quote + On November 13 2009 17:51 Bill307 wrote: Fascinating. The level of control offered by BWAPI sounds promising (assuming it offers the same level of unit control as a human player will have). I can guarantee that in the complete-game competition, 99% to 100% of ones time will be spent making an AI that can survive, if not win in, the first few minutes of the game. If you're not confident in your AI's ability to survive the opening of the game, then any time you spend on its abilities beyond that is a waste of time. The first step in making a winning AI will be to either: a) execute a well-timed, well-microed 4-pool, or b) defend against such a 4-pool with good micro. If you can't do one of these, then you might as well not bother entering (unless you assume all the other entrants will similarly incapable ).4 pool alone isn't trivial, but multiply this by 100 and you get about how hard SC is to play at the D+/C- level. However, I could imagine there being really good AI's for specific tasks, such as microing small number of units that could play out certain situations almost perfectly. (Stage 1) If you really wanted to make a strong AI for a game, it would make a lot more sense to pick a different genre such as turn-based strategy (Civ), fighting games (SF4), or even first-person shooters (HL). Yea you are so right. An Ai can get a perfect aim in FPS and i think that most of the turn-based strategy games can be solved by brute force ( or at least the comp can take the best Ev+ decisions ). A real time strategy game like stacraft is the hardest thing for an AI. | ||
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SultanVinegar
United States372 Posts
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SirKibbleX
United States479 Posts
The beauty of this competition is that it will inevitably lead to newer, better modules. If someone can focus all their effort on one small task, like one person focuses purely on perfecting zergling vs. zergling combat for the micro competition, and another person focuses purely on writing a code for optimizing psionic storms, the larger AIs will be able to take those small-scale functions and algorithms and apply them to create a better and better system. I'd say in 2-3 years the AI could be able to beat humans 100%, but AIs may continue to become better and better and better... | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
I have a lot of ideas, but no time to program them. | ||
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GogoKodo
Canada1785 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + The AI sucks pretty hard, but it's mostly just a test to show a scouting probe and the terrain identification features. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
On November 14 2009 03:30 Bill307 wrote: If someone wants to make a TLnet team AI, I'm in. In fact, I think we should totally make one. I have a lot of ideas, but no time to program them. I'd be interested as well. Although I don't really know how much time I have for stuff like that. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
I'm really impressed. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On November 14 2009 02:41 SirKibbleX wrote: If you've ever lost to one of the game's pre-built AIs when you were first learning SC, then you know that its possible for a comp to beat a human. In fact, a good AI is theoretically much, much better than you. I await the programmer who can 'prove' whether or not a probe/drone can kill well-micro'd terran workers without taking a single hit. The beauty of this competition is that it will inevitably lead to newer, better modules. If someone can focus all their effort on one small task, like one person focuses purely on perfecting zergling vs. zergling combat for the micro competition, and another person focuses purely on writing a code for optimizing psionic storms, the larger AIs will be able to take those small-scale functions and algorithms and apply them to create a better and better system. I'd say in 2-3 years the AI could be able to beat humans 100%, but AIs may continue to become better and better and better... I doubt it'll be that easy. Chess AIs have been in development for a very long time and finally they are about as strong as humans. Go AIs suck horribly even though the game concept is quite simple. Imo creating a decent SC AI will be much harder than any of those, as SC is much more complex. Unless the AI can win by outmicroing humans very early in the game, which I doubt because defense is stronger than offense in SC. | ||
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Jank
United States308 Posts
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integral
United States3156 Posts
Poll: Are you interested in joining a team that enters this competition? (Vote): Yes, only Tournament 1: Micro-management (Vote): Yes, only Tournament 2: Small-scale Combat (Vote): Yes, only Tournament 3: Tech-limited game (Vote): Yes, only Tournament 4: Complete StarCraft game (Vote): Yes (Vote): Hell yes, TL is going to win this shit! edit: poll breaks page layout, gonna have to redo. edit: oops, ignore the (Vote): in option 1. | ||
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Jank
United States308 Posts
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r3dox
Germany261 Posts
there should be a server where people can upload their AI module, and the server will be running games vs eachother nonstop and provide statistics of the games played, replays, and logs of the bots etc. | ||
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So no fek
United States3001 Posts
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