• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:29
CET 15:29
KST 23:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
[Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team BW General Discussion Do we even care about balance? Rollback Netcode in Brood War Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7418 users

Welcome to the S-Class - Page 3

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:20 GMT
#41
On October 10 2009 20:18 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.


Make less inflammatory post when you point stuff out.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
October 10 2009 11:20 GMT
#42
On October 10 2009 20:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:16 SuperArc wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?


And they could just as easily win the next one couldn't they.


Nope, JD proved us often enough how HE is easily the favourite in a Bo5 against anyone.
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:25:19
October 10 2009 11:20 GMT
#43
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


As far as I can recall Boxer said in an interview fairly recently that Bisu basically had the charisma to be the new face of Broodwar if he really tried. I think it was in the Boxer-Bisu double interview.

Anyway, is Jaedong a hero or just a really, really good player? I do agree there is a difference. Boxer is the prime example of someone who has the "it" factor in buckets and spades. It's the sense of expectation that when he's playing you might be allowed a glimpse into something truly magical. It's the kind of feeling associated with Federer in tennis and Tiger Woods in golf. Both are ridiculously good at their sport but they in addition have that extra special factor.

I don't know about Jaedong. Often I get the feeling that I'll be able to watch him dominate with impressive ease, but not experience something magical. But who can deny he's one of the greatest current players? I think that what SC really needs, as is pointed out in the article, is a proper rivalry ala Federer-Nadal in tennis. I'd say Jaedong is the Nadal of today, but we need a Federer to compete! Someone who will be a favourite to win against absolutely everyone except Jaedong. That would boost things a lot. Bisu could be that person but he needs some work to do for that. Flash also.

Hopefully one day we'll get a great rivalry again.
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:22 GMT
#44
On October 10 2009 20:20 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:16 SuperArc wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?


And they could just as easily win the next one couldn't they.


Nope, JD proved us often enough how HE is easily the favourite in a Bo5 against anyone.


I would not be even slightly surprised is Jaedong lost a Bo5 3-1 or 3-2 to any of the aforementioned players.

I would have shit my pants if BoxeR lost a series to anyone at his peak.
RIP Aaliyah
Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
October 10 2009 11:22 GMT
#45
Holy shit my hair is standing on end that was so true and correct down to the letter.

You sir are amazing.
< TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
October 10 2009 11:24 GMT
#46
On October 10 2009 20:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:16 Iplaythings wrote:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!


The writing staff unanimously agreed this was not worthy of being on the front page. In fact only one of my TLFE's was written with the intent to be a TLFE and it was actually a terrible article.

I hope that was a joke
In the woods, there lurks..
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:34:54
October 10 2009 11:26 GMT
#47
On October 10 2009 20:24 Iplaythings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:17 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:16 Iplaythings wrote:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!


The writing staff unanimously agreed this was not worthy of being on the front page. In fact only one of my TLFE's was written with the intent to be a TLFE and it was actually a terrible article.

I hope that was a joke

No I'm not joking and they were absolutely right in their decision. This is not the type of article that gets posted on the front page. Ultimately there is no real article and it touches on too many topics. That is what I wanted but not what the staff wanted.

When I write more focused and concise works maybe they will be seen on the homepage.
RIP Aaliyah
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
October 10 2009 11:30 GMT
#48
On October 10 2009 20:20 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:18 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.


Make less inflammatory post when you point stuff out.


Right, maybe I could've omitted "fanboy" and "butthurt", but aren't these words frequently used on this forum? I also don't really see how these are inflammatory. Regardless, it was not my intention to insult you in any way.
Minimal effort.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:32 GMT
#49
On October 10 2009 20:30 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:20 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:18 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.


Make less inflammatory post when you point stuff out.


Right, maybe I could've omitted "fanboy" and "butthurt", but aren't these words frequently used on this forum? I also don't really see how these are inflammatory. Regardless, it was not my intention to insult you in any way.


I would really just prefer if we keep any and all personal accusations out of all future discourse. That's what causes "arguments". We want "discussions"
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:35 GMT
#50
On October 10 2009 20:22 Spenguin wrote:
Holy shit my hair is standing on end that was so true and correct down to the letter.

You sir are amazing.


Thank you. That did wonders for my mostly crushed ego.

I hide it well but I actually take criticism very badly.
RIP Aaliyah
Necosarius
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Sweden4042 Posts
October 10 2009 11:43 GMT
#51
Amazing article
imweakless
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
757 Posts
October 10 2009 11:45 GMT
#52
woooo what an epic article! thank you so much!
KMK,Qri,GsD#1, UEE,stork jangbi for life!
san-tokie
Profile Joined May 2007
Korea (South)185 Posts
October 10 2009 11:49 GMT
#53
Definitely one of the better articles I've read.

Just one small nitpick though, if Casy is among the S-class heroes, shouldn't Anytime, Nal_ra and Julyzerg be listed there too, or is that simply because there's no article for them?

Also while you did give JD sufficient acknowledgement, I just want to mention if it weren't for Jaedong, the Flash/Bisu/Jaedong era would already be over. It's ridiculous how fast the turnover rate is for S-class players these days.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:51 GMT
#54
On October 10 2009 20:49 san-tokie wrote:
Definitely one of the better articles I've read.

Just one small nitpick though, if Casy is among the S-class heroes, shouldn't Anytime, Nal_ra and Julyzerg be listed there too, or is that simply because there's no article for them?

Also while you did give JD sufficient acknowledgement, I just want to mention if it weren't for Jaedong, the Flash/Bisu/Jaedong era would already be over. It's ridiculous how fast the turnover rate is for S-class players these days.


There is simply no article for them. I would have included all three of those players as well as Reach and GARIMTO.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:53:39
October 10 2009 11:53 GMT
#55
also if anyone cares here is alfflas cover

this was originally meant to be a TLFE so it would have had a frontpage cover alternate to the articles banner but it wasn't good enough for that and i don't wanna see this go to waste

[image loading]
RIP Aaliyah
Oai
Profile Joined July 2009
United States40 Posts
October 10 2009 12:02 GMT
#56
Excellent read. Just a long one. But enjoyable nonetheless. haha. I don't have anything else to say here other than what's already been said; mainly about the omitting of julyzerg, nalra and the bunch, but you already explained. =)
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 12:04:46
October 10 2009 12:03 GMT
#57
- delete this post
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 12:04 GMT
#58
Yes, I really wish there was a long article on nal.rA

maybe i'll have to be the one to write it.
RIP Aaliyah
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
October 10 2009 12:07 GMT
#59
I think JD is a hero for one reason:
The number of times his name is written in this article, while still trying to say he is not a hero.
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 12:29:11
October 10 2009 12:08 GMT
#60
"They were just 2 zergs " blablabla . Back then July would have destroyed Bisu if he was able to get past Gorush . After all July has never lost a Bo5 to a protoss ( althought now he is pretty likely to lose ). July beat Bisu in the OSL qualifier just after Bisu destroyed Savior to win the MSL .
Imo Jaedong controling 2 groups of mutas at once is heroic allright , because no one on the planet can do it and that's way it's heroic and what about the Eeee-han timing ? ..... when you mention Nada perfectly cloneing the Yamato it is the same thing .
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
19:00
ScienceCraft - Day 2
RotterdaM724
IndyStarCraft 463
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 724
IndyStarCraft 463
Hui .166
Classic 77
MindelVK 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50286
Shuttle 12766
Bisu 2017
BeSt 1935
Hyuk 583
Horang2 576
FanTaSy 575
EffOrt 491
Stork 327
firebathero 311
[ Show more ]
Snow 156
ProTech154
Larva 139
Mind 108
ggaemo 94
Bonyth 73
Last 73
sorry 53
Barracks 52
Sexy 52
Killer 48
Shinee 46
Movie 39
Pusan 38
ToSsGirL 38
Hm[arnc] 21
JYJ 21
Aegong 19
Rock 16
Sacsri 16
zelot 16
Shine 14
yabsab 14
soO 12
Noble 8
Dota 2
Gorgc13337
qojqva1820
Counter-Strike
fl0m2937
allub467
Other Games
singsing2609
B2W.Neo1455
Beastyqt669
Liquid`RaSZi590
Mlord535
DeMusliM187
KnowMe119
ToD116
syndereN82
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL20287
Other Games
gamesdonequick1149
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3449
League of Legends
• Nemesis2989
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 31m
WardiTV Weekly
21h 31m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 20h
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.