• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:37
CET 04:37
KST 12:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage1Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION3
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting RSL S3 Round of 16 [TLCH] Mission 7: Last Stand Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Monday Nights Weeklies SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4 Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RSL S3 ro16 [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Dating: How's your luck? Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
AI is so fuckin funny
Peanutsc
Challenge: Maths isn't all…
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1845 users

Welcome to the S-Class - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
October 10 2009 10:59 GMT
#21
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.
beep boop
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#22
On October 10 2009 19:42 keV. wrote:
You'd think the best player that ever played the game would be mentioned here.

I don't know how you can be uninspired watching he who apparently must not be named play. Its interesting because I'm pretty sure all these players are inspired by said person.



Nada was mentioned.

Here's some food for thought on hero/bonjwa subject:

From Boxer to Nada to oov there was virtually an uninterrupted line of someone standing far ahead of the rest. But from oov to Savior there was a pretty long gap, a year to a year and a half depending on how you want to look at it. Currently it's been two and a half years since Savior lost, so this gap is certainly larger (thanks Mind). But all the top players you listed can be compared with Gorush, July, Anytime, Reach, Casy, and Chojja, who all were fighting with everyone else for supremacy in that period. Until Savior emerged, one could have looked at that interregnum the same way.

I liked this article quite a bit. Hope to see more like it
Liquipedia
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#23
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.
RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#24
On October 10 2009 19:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:52 Fish_Baguettes wrote:
Finally finished reading all of that, and damn was that a good read! Very inspirational and informative.

Maybe one day in the future there will be a player who is extremely ahead of the pack and sit on the bonjwa throne again, but ever since the fall of (Z)sAviOr it has practically been a warring states period in the korean starcraft pro scene - no one has been able to state a claim of ownage over the title just like your article said =(


If Jaedong doesn't slump this season it will be pretty hard not to call him Bonjwa. The only problem is players like Bisu/Fantasy/Flash/Stork are very close to that level of skill.

Alot of people don't realize just how much better sAviOr was than everyone else at his peak. When there are 3 or more players that can take you on a series and easily be favorites to win you're not a bonjwa.

Just imo Jaedong doesn't have the personality, the creativity, or the "it" factor required. He is a beast on screen but I wouldn't even rank him with the likes of GARIMTO or nal.rA when it comes to heroics.

Also I'm not convinced he's better than FlaSh at his peak. Never forget 2008.


There is that "it" again. *sigh* By your own criteria there is no reason why Bisu should be considered a hero and Jaedong should not. If you are talking legends... and I think you would be if Bisu was not involved... I wouldn't have a problem with this at all.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
BookTwo
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1985 Posts
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#25
I just pee'd a little. I do that when I get really, really really excited/happy.

This is just epic, to say the least.
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#26
On October 10 2009 20:03 Ver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:42 keV. wrote:
You'd think the best player that ever played the game would be mentioned here.

I don't know how you can be uninspired watching he who apparently must not be named play. Its interesting because I'm pretty sure all these players are inspired by said person.



Nada was mentioned.

Here's some food for thought on hero/bonjwa subject:

From Boxer to Nada to oov there was virtually an uninterrupted line of someone standing far ahead of the rest. But from oov to Savior there was a pretty long gap, a year to a year and a half depending on how you want to look at it. Currently it's been two and a half years since Savior lost, so this gap is certainly larger (thanks Mind). But all the top players you listed can be compared with Gorush, July, Anytime, Reach, Casy, and Chojja, who all were fighting with everyone else for supremacy in that period. Until Savior emerged, one could have looked at that interregnum the same way.

I liked this article quite a bit. Hope to see more like it


Do I have to dig up the Nada quote that JD is basically the face of Broodwar pro gaming?
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:08:10
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#27
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong. I'm not talking about just dominance and i make this point very clearly in my article.

RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:08:22
October 10 2009 11:08 GMT
#28
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:09:18
October 10 2009 11:08 GMT
#29
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.
RIP Aaliyah
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
October 10 2009 11:11 GMT
#30
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.
Minimal effort.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:14:10
October 10 2009 11:12 GMT
#31
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.

before I get accused of being a bisu fanboy i would like to remind you all that bisu is my least favorite player and I hate him and everything about him
RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:12 GMT
#32
On October 10 2009 20:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.


Charisma is a perfectly provable trait... At least by majority vote. I'll give you some reasons why I think Jaedong is heroic.

-Quote by Nada
-Picks for his group in the last MSL
-Comeback after losing the proleague finals for his team

Now you go.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:14 GMT
#33
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


I'm not being 'butthurt' (lol) at all. I'm discussing an article and asking the author to defend his position. Have I degraded the author or Bisu at all in this thread? No. Maybe you should read a little bit before you try and turn this into one of your other kiddie-forum flame wars.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:16:35
October 10 2009 11:15 GMT
#34
On October 10 2009 20:12 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.


Charisma is a perfectly provable trait... At least by majority vote. I'll give you some reasons why I think Jaedong is heroic.

-Quote by Nada
-Picks for his group in the last MSL
-Comeback after losing the proleague finals for his team

Now you go.


No it isn't. I listed reasons why I thought Bisu was heroic in the article and vicariously through plexas article. I'm not going to regurgitate the same points.

You disagree with me and im ok with that.
RIP Aaliyah
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
October 10 2009 11:16 GMT
#35
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!
In the woods, there lurks..
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
October 10 2009 11:16 GMT
#36
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:18:48
October 10 2009 11:17 GMT
#37
On October 10 2009 20:16 Iplaythings wrote:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!


The writing staff unanimously agreed this was not worthy of being on the front page. In fact only one of my TLFE's was written with the intent to be a TLFE and it was actually a terrible article.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:18 GMT
#38
On October 10 2009 20:16 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?


And they could just as easily win the next one couldn't they.
RIP Aaliyah
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
October 10 2009 11:18 GMT
#39
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.
Minimal effort.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:19 GMT
#40
On October 10 2009 20:18 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.


I just don't want flamewars in my thread. These discussions become far too heated and serious and once you start taking personal jabs, it's time to take a break.
RIP Aaliyah
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
01:00
#56
CranKy Ducklings191
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 124
ProTech103
CosmosSc2 24
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 8564
Artosis 606
Sharp 72
NaDa 65
Icarus 8
Dota 2
monkeys_forever422
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Reynor22
Counter-Strike
fl0m1627
m0e_tv226
Coldzera 114
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox444
Other Games
summit1g11940
WinterStarcraft338
C9.Mang0248
ViBE63
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1244
BasetradeTV167
Counter-Strike
PGL94
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21583
League of Legends
• Doublelift4282
• Stunt332
Other Games
• Scarra695
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 23m
WardiTV Korean Royale
8h 23m
LAN Event
11h 23m
OSC
19h 23m
The PondCast
1d 6h
LAN Event
1d 11h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
LAN Event
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
LAN Event
3 days
IPSL
3 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
LAN Event
4 days
IPSL
4 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.