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7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
October 10 2009 10:59 GMT
#21
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.
beep boop
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#22
On October 10 2009 19:42 keV. wrote:
You'd think the best player that ever played the game would be mentioned here.

I don't know how you can be uninspired watching he who apparently must not be named play. Its interesting because I'm pretty sure all these players are inspired by said person.



Nada was mentioned.

Here's some food for thought on hero/bonjwa subject:

From Boxer to Nada to oov there was virtually an uninterrupted line of someone standing far ahead of the rest. But from oov to Savior there was a pretty long gap, a year to a year and a half depending on how you want to look at it. Currently it's been two and a half years since Savior lost, so this gap is certainly larger (thanks Mind). But all the top players you listed can be compared with Gorush, July, Anytime, Reach, Casy, and Chojja, who all were fighting with everyone else for supremacy in that period. Until Savior emerged, one could have looked at that interregnum the same way.

I liked this article quite a bit. Hope to see more like it
Liquipedia
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#23
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.
RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#24
On October 10 2009 19:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:52 Fish_Baguettes wrote:
Finally finished reading all of that, and damn was that a good read! Very inspirational and informative.

Maybe one day in the future there will be a player who is extremely ahead of the pack and sit on the bonjwa throne again, but ever since the fall of (Z)sAviOr it has practically been a warring states period in the korean starcraft pro scene - no one has been able to state a claim of ownage over the title just like your article said =(


If Jaedong doesn't slump this season it will be pretty hard not to call him Bonjwa. The only problem is players like Bisu/Fantasy/Flash/Stork are very close to that level of skill.

Alot of people don't realize just how much better sAviOr was than everyone else at his peak. When there are 3 or more players that can take you on a series and easily be favorites to win you're not a bonjwa.

Just imo Jaedong doesn't have the personality, the creativity, or the "it" factor required. He is a beast on screen but I wouldn't even rank him with the likes of GARIMTO or nal.rA when it comes to heroics.

Also I'm not convinced he's better than FlaSh at his peak. Never forget 2008.


There is that "it" again. *sigh* By your own criteria there is no reason why Bisu should be considered a hero and Jaedong should not. If you are talking legends... and I think you would be if Bisu was not involved... I wouldn't have a problem with this at all.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
BookTwo
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1985 Posts
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#25
I just pee'd a little. I do that when I get really, really really excited/happy.

This is just epic, to say the least.
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#26
On October 10 2009 20:03 Ver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:42 keV. wrote:
You'd think the best player that ever played the game would be mentioned here.

I don't know how you can be uninspired watching he who apparently must not be named play. Its interesting because I'm pretty sure all these players are inspired by said person.



Nada was mentioned.

Here's some food for thought on hero/bonjwa subject:

From Boxer to Nada to oov there was virtually an uninterrupted line of someone standing far ahead of the rest. But from oov to Savior there was a pretty long gap, a year to a year and a half depending on how you want to look at it. Currently it's been two and a half years since Savior lost, so this gap is certainly larger (thanks Mind). But all the top players you listed can be compared with Gorush, July, Anytime, Reach, Casy, and Chojja, who all were fighting with everyone else for supremacy in that period. Until Savior emerged, one could have looked at that interregnum the same way.

I liked this article quite a bit. Hope to see more like it


Do I have to dig up the Nada quote that JD is basically the face of Broodwar pro gaming?
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:08:10
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#27
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong. I'm not talking about just dominance and i make this point very clearly in my article.

RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:08:22
October 10 2009 11:08 GMT
#28
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:09:18
October 10 2009 11:08 GMT
#29
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.
RIP Aaliyah
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
October 10 2009 11:11 GMT
#30
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.
Minimal effort.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:14:10
October 10 2009 11:12 GMT
#31
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.

before I get accused of being a bisu fanboy i would like to remind you all that bisu is my least favorite player and I hate him and everything about him
RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:12 GMT
#32
On October 10 2009 20:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.


Charisma is a perfectly provable trait... At least by majority vote. I'll give you some reasons why I think Jaedong is heroic.

-Quote by Nada
-Picks for his group in the last MSL
-Comeback after losing the proleague finals for his team

Now you go.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:14 GMT
#33
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


I'm not being 'butthurt' (lol) at all. I'm discussing an article and asking the author to defend his position. Have I degraded the author or Bisu at all in this thread? No. Maybe you should read a little bit before you try and turn this into one of your other kiddie-forum flame wars.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:16:35
October 10 2009 11:15 GMT
#34
On October 10 2009 20:12 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.


Charisma is a perfectly provable trait... At least by majority vote. I'll give you some reasons why I think Jaedong is heroic.

-Quote by Nada
-Picks for his group in the last MSL
-Comeback after losing the proleague finals for his team

Now you go.


No it isn't. I listed reasons why I thought Bisu was heroic in the article and vicariously through plexas article. I'm not going to regurgitate the same points.

You disagree with me and im ok with that.
RIP Aaliyah
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
October 10 2009 11:16 GMT
#35
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!
In the woods, there lurks..
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
October 10 2009 11:16 GMT
#36
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:18:48
October 10 2009 11:17 GMT
#37
On October 10 2009 20:16 Iplaythings wrote:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!


The writing staff unanimously agreed this was not worthy of being on the front page. In fact only one of my TLFE's was written with the intent to be a TLFE and it was actually a terrible article.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:18 GMT
#38
On October 10 2009 20:16 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?


And they could just as easily win the next one couldn't they.
RIP Aaliyah
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
October 10 2009 11:18 GMT
#39
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.
Minimal effort.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:19 GMT
#40
On October 10 2009 20:18 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.


I just don't want flamewars in my thread. These discussions become far too heated and serious and once you start taking personal jabs, it's time to take a break.
RIP Aaliyah
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