• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:29
CET 15:29
KST 23:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
[Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team BW General Discussion Do we even care about balance? Rollback Netcode in Brood War Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7418 users

Welcome to the S-Class - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
October 10 2009 10:59 GMT
#21
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.
beep boop
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#22
On October 10 2009 19:42 keV. wrote:
You'd think the best player that ever played the game would be mentioned here.

I don't know how you can be uninspired watching he who apparently must not be named play. Its interesting because I'm pretty sure all these players are inspired by said person.



Nada was mentioned.

Here's some food for thought on hero/bonjwa subject:

From Boxer to Nada to oov there was virtually an uninterrupted line of someone standing far ahead of the rest. But from oov to Savior there was a pretty long gap, a year to a year and a half depending on how you want to look at it. Currently it's been two and a half years since Savior lost, so this gap is certainly larger (thanks Mind). But all the top players you listed can be compared with Gorush, July, Anytime, Reach, Casy, and Chojja, who all were fighting with everyone else for supremacy in that period. Until Savior emerged, one could have looked at that interregnum the same way.

I liked this article quite a bit. Hope to see more like it
Liquipedia
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#23
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.
RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:03 GMT
#24
On October 10 2009 19:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:52 Fish_Baguettes wrote:
Finally finished reading all of that, and damn was that a good read! Very inspirational and informative.

Maybe one day in the future there will be a player who is extremely ahead of the pack and sit on the bonjwa throne again, but ever since the fall of (Z)sAviOr it has practically been a warring states period in the korean starcraft pro scene - no one has been able to state a claim of ownage over the title just like your article said =(


If Jaedong doesn't slump this season it will be pretty hard not to call him Bonjwa. The only problem is players like Bisu/Fantasy/Flash/Stork are very close to that level of skill.

Alot of people don't realize just how much better sAviOr was than everyone else at his peak. When there are 3 or more players that can take you on a series and easily be favorites to win you're not a bonjwa.

Just imo Jaedong doesn't have the personality, the creativity, or the "it" factor required. He is a beast on screen but I wouldn't even rank him with the likes of GARIMTO or nal.rA when it comes to heroics.

Also I'm not convinced he's better than FlaSh at his peak. Never forget 2008.


There is that "it" again. *sigh* By your own criteria there is no reason why Bisu should be considered a hero and Jaedong should not. If you are talking legends... and I think you would be if Bisu was not involved... I wouldn't have a problem with this at all.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
BookTwo
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1985 Posts
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#25
I just pee'd a little. I do that when I get really, really really excited/happy.

This is just epic, to say the least.
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#26
On October 10 2009 20:03 Ver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:42 keV. wrote:
You'd think the best player that ever played the game would be mentioned here.

I don't know how you can be uninspired watching he who apparently must not be named play. Its interesting because I'm pretty sure all these players are inspired by said person.



Nada was mentioned.

Here's some food for thought on hero/bonjwa subject:

From Boxer to Nada to oov there was virtually an uninterrupted line of someone standing far ahead of the rest. But from oov to Savior there was a pretty long gap, a year to a year and a half depending on how you want to look at it. Currently it's been two and a half years since Savior lost, so this gap is certainly larger (thanks Mind). But all the top players you listed can be compared with Gorush, July, Anytime, Reach, Casy, and Chojja, who all were fighting with everyone else for supremacy in that period. Until Savior emerged, one could have looked at that interregnum the same way.

I liked this article quite a bit. Hope to see more like it


Do I have to dig up the Nada quote that JD is basically the face of Broodwar pro gaming?
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:08:10
October 10 2009 11:06 GMT
#27
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong. I'm not talking about just dominance and i make this point very clearly in my article.

RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:08:22
October 10 2009 11:08 GMT
#28
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:09:18
October 10 2009 11:08 GMT
#29
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.
RIP Aaliyah
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
October 10 2009 11:11 GMT
#30
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.
Minimal effort.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:14:10
October 10 2009 11:12 GMT
#31
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.

before I get accused of being a bisu fanboy i would like to remind you all that bisu is my least favorite player and I hate him and everything about him
RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:12 GMT
#32
On October 10 2009 20:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.


Charisma is a perfectly provable trait... At least by majority vote. I'll give you some reasons why I think Jaedong is heroic.

-Quote by Nada
-Picks for his group in the last MSL
-Comeback after losing the proleague finals for his team

Now you go.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 10 2009 11:14 GMT
#33
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


I'm not being 'butthurt' (lol) at all. I'm discussing an article and asking the author to defend his position. Have I degraded the author or Bisu at all in this thread? No. Maybe you should read a little bit before you try and turn this into one of your other kiddie-forum flame wars.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:16:35
October 10 2009 11:15 GMT
#34
On October 10 2009 20:12 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves and exclamation point.


I can't prove someone is charismatic. I would love to give you objective proof of my opinion but unfortunately i can't.


Charisma is a perfectly provable trait... At least by majority vote. I'll give you some reasons why I think Jaedong is heroic.

-Quote by Nada
-Picks for his group in the last MSL
-Comeback after losing the proleague finals for his team

Now you go.


No it isn't. I listed reasons why I thought Bisu was heroic in the article and vicariously through plexas article. I'm not going to regurgitate the same points.

You disagree with me and im ok with that.
RIP Aaliyah
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
October 10 2009 11:16 GMT
#35
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!
In the woods, there lurks..
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
October 10 2009 11:16 GMT
#36
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-10 11:18:48
October 10 2009 11:17 GMT
#37
On October 10 2009 20:16 Iplaythings wrote:
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow IMBA READ! Give this guy a star and frontpage it asap else imma commit suicide!! (Ya hear me? SUICIDE!!)!


The writing staff unanimously agreed this was not worthy of being on the front page. In fact only one of my TLFE's was written with the intent to be a TLFE and it was actually a terrible article.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:18 GMT
#38
On October 10 2009 20:16 SuperArc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 19:59 7mk wrote:
what? nobody is "easily a favourite to win" vs jaedong

"the dropping of many sponsors within a year, (KTF, OGN, Lecaf, and HanbitSoft)"
? KTF didn't drop, neither did Lecaf. Hwaesung owns Lecaf.


I see no reason why FantaSy, Bisu, Calm, or FlaSh couldn't be expected to beat Jaedong.

also thank you for the correction.


because apart from Calm all failed against JD in Bo5s?


And they could just as easily win the next one couldn't they.
RIP Aaliyah
Superbia
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Netherlands8889 Posts
October 10 2009 11:18 GMT
#39
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.
Minimal effort.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 10 2009 11:19 GMT
#40
On October 10 2009 20:18 Uligor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2009 20:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:11 Uligor wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:08 keV. wrote:
On October 10 2009 20:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Bisu changed the metagame drastically and had a far better stage presence and charisma than Jaedong.


There is nothing special about the Bisu build at all. It's when Bisu does it. How is this any different from Jaedong. Also Bisu = Charisma? any proof of this at all. Find me one interview that deserves an exclamation point.


Honestly man, the only thing you are achieving is making it clear that you are an incredibly biased Jaedong fanboy. The article obviously represents the author's opinion mixed in with facts. Stop being so butthurt about someone not sharing your opinion.


If youre going to argue against someone in my thread please do so in a less inflammatory manner. If this thread degenerates into an angry Bisu vs Jaedong thread I will be very upset.


I'm not planning on arguing, I thought pointing stuff out would maybe make the poster realize it and calm down.
With respect to your intentions, I think it is pretty unfair to direct this at me. I think it is pretty clear that I was in no way heading towards a "Jaedong vs Bisu" or "Bonjwa" discussion.


I just don't want flamewars in my thread. These discussions become far too heated and serious and once you start taking personal jabs, it's time to take a break.
RIP Aaliyah
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
19:00
ScienceCraft - Day 2
RotterdaM724
IndyStarCraft 463
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 724
IndyStarCraft 463
Hui .166
Classic 77
MindelVK 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50286
Shuttle 12766
Bisu 2017
BeSt 1935
Hyuk 583
Horang2 576
FanTaSy 575
EffOrt 491
Stork 327
firebathero 311
[ Show more ]
Snow 156
ProTech154
Larva 139
Mind 108
ggaemo 94
Bonyth 73
Last 73
sorry 53
Barracks 52
Sexy 52
Killer 48
Shinee 46
Movie 39
Pusan 38
ToSsGirL 38
Hm[arnc] 21
JYJ 21
Aegong 19
Rock 16
Sacsri 16
zelot 16
Shine 14
yabsab 14
soO 12
Noble 8
Dota 2
Gorgc13337
qojqva1820
Counter-Strike
fl0m2937
allub467
Other Games
singsing2609
B2W.Neo1455
Beastyqt669
Liquid`RaSZi590
Mlord535
DeMusliM187
KnowMe119
ToD116
syndereN82
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL20287
Other Games
gamesdonequick1149
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3449
League of Legends
• Nemesis2989
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 31m
WardiTV Weekly
21h 31m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 20h
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.