• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:29
CET 15:29
KST 23:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
[Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team BW General Discussion Do we even care about balance? Rollback Netcode in Brood War Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7418 users

Welcome to the S-Class - Page 11

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 Next All
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
October 18 2009 07:28 GMT
#201
I am going to mention upmagic too. If there is one player I want to succeed, it is him.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 18 2009 07:36 GMT
#202
On October 18 2009 16:27 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2009 15:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I just really feel that everyone missed the point of the article and I am annoyed that everyone focused on Jaedongs role which was a really minute part of it.

I didn't realize how die-hard the jaedong fans were.


You essentially listed a bunch of "Greats" of starcraft and said Jaedong didn't qualify. It's hard to see how that wouldn't bring backlash.


I said he was great, the closest thing to a bonjwa we will ever have again, and one of my favorite all time players.
RIP Aaliyah
vRoOk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1024 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-18 07:38:52
October 18 2009 07:38 GMT
#203
Give DoctorH a break guys..


It was a great article.. that i've read at least 5 times lol
Breaking Bad
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 18 2009 07:41 GMT
#204
I will say it again

I THINK JAEDONG IS THE BEST PLAYER RIGHT NOW, CLOSE TO BONJWA STATUS, AND INCREDIBLY FUN TO WATCH

Also I am not a Bisu fanboy, I am probably the biggest Bisu anti-fan on TL, i hate him i hate him i hate him

he is gorgeous though
RIP Aaliyah
QibingZero
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
2611 Posts
October 18 2009 07:48 GMT
#205
Not even a shameless self-bump was going to de-derail your thread, you know...
Oh, my eSports
vRoOk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States1024 Posts
October 18 2009 07:48 GMT
#206
On October 18 2009 16:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:


Also I am not a Bisu fanboy, I am probably the biggest Bisu anti-fan on TL, i hate him i hate him i hate him

he is gorgeous though


isn't he?! Hyuk is pretty baller looking as well haha
Breaking Bad
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 18 2009 07:52 GMT
#207
On October 18 2009 16:48 QibingZero wrote:
Not even a shameless self-bump was going to de-derail your thread, you know...


Why should I feel shame for bumping my own article. It wasn't featured or spotlighted like my other ones so I'll probably bump it regularly, or rewrite it as a TLFE (like my sAviOr piece)
RIP Aaliyah
Simple
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States801 Posts
October 18 2009 08:04 GMT
#208
S-class is such a cool term.

awaiting the next revolution
siv00
Profile Joined September 2009
261 Posts
October 18 2009 08:10 GMT
#209
Jaedong's play in the finals of MSL/OSL was disappointing and he has lost his lethal countenance.

He's going to underperform, slump, drop out of both leagues and cease to be relevant.

You should fix the typographical errors with players' names as it makes the article somewhat distracting to read. (i.e.: Nal_rA's name has an underscore, not a period)
FoBuLouS
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States570 Posts
October 18 2009 08:21 GMT
#210
amazing.
domane
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada1606 Posts
October 18 2009 09:00 GMT
#211
How about this?

Bonjwa = high amount of success + high popularity + marketable

Other than success:

Boxer had exciting, back to back cheese + has a good appearance (could be called handsome)
Yellow had a special relationship with Boxer + was seen as cool (that dyed hair/KTF/popular phase)
Nada started out younger than other pros at his time (young genius impression)
Savior has good looks + gives off that really nice guy impression
Bisu has good looks + could be seen as greatest of 6 dragons + fangirls
oov - it is mentioned in the OP, that some disliked him for beating Boxer + less micro. But his status is acknowledged now (likewise, people who do not "endorse" Jaedong now, might acknowledge his status as a bonjwa in a few years)

I'm not sure about Yellow and oov, but the rest are featured in the media more often than other pro gamers and they know how to present themselves well to the public.

I think if the media focused more heavily on Jaedong's scary-level concentration, he would develop more nicknames and familiarity with the public. That way, Jaedong could be seen as a great and memorable player sooner.
Magic84
Profile Joined October 2008
Russian Federation1381 Posts
October 18 2009 09:18 GMT
#212
Jaedong is that "hero" of our days.

Bisu and Flash are great too. This era is filled with a lot of crazy skilled players, that detracts from the dominance of top players.
LibertyTerran
Profile Joined July 2004
Vietnam711 Posts
October 18 2009 09:40 GMT
#213
I glanced through the article and lost interest after the first couple of paragraphs. What is that the author wanted to say? Players belong to S-class club ("Welcome to the S-class" says the title) or Starcraft heroes (first paragraph)? IMHO, they are two different things and if the authors wanna concentrate on heroes, rivalries and the like, s/he should change the title to something else, rather than the S-class one because it is really confusing.


if it aint broke, dont fix it
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
October 18 2009 09:52 GMT
#214
There is no focus to the article and that was intentional. Looking for a thesis, argument, or "point" will leave you disappointed. It's just a glance at 3 eras of broodwar through my eyes.

Hence my apprehension to even argue about it.
RIP Aaliyah
Letmelose
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Korea (South)3227 Posts
October 18 2009 10:03 GMT
#215
It's difficult to respond to such an subjective topic, and it should be no surprise that the thread ended up this way really.

It's a spectator sport, and we all get different things from it.

Nada was the scariest thing I ever saw. Nal Ra was the single greatest oddity that has graced the scene. Iloveoov was the most inexplicable player I've witnessed. July gave me more adrenaline rush than any other player so far. Savior in his prime really did look like he had everyone in the palm of his hand.

Those are some of the players that left strong impressions on me. That doesn't mean that others should feel the same way. Those are just my impressions. I can't prove that Nada was "scarier" than Iloveoov because it's just the way I perceive the two players.

For example. Reach, who probably gave more emotional rollercoasters to protoss-followers than any other gamer, never really had the same impact on me. All I saw was an exceptionally gifted protoss gamer with near-borderline retarded decison making skills. Although I didn't miss his nuclear blast-like zealot bombing and fangirl orgasm-inducing psionic storms, his skills didn't translate into strong emotions of any kind for me. It's my loss, because he is such a good gamer to get emotionally attached to.

You can't force people into liking a certain player like Boxer, no matter how politically correct it seems, because it's all subjective. Who are we to judge the status on the plethora of gamers that have graced and left the scene? Everyone has a different criteria for the way they feel about each gamer, and creating a discussion based upon this issue will invariably result in a very emotionally charged arguments on why so-and-so is not as memorable or significant as things may seem.

Demanding Jaedong to win people over by doing something he is not known for is such a childish ploy. If Jaedong hasn't won you over by now, it probably means that it just isn't meant to be. He already has fair share of memorable games such as his Blue Storm match versus Bisu, Loki 2 and Rush Hour matches against Flash, and Sin Chupung Ryeong matches against Fantasy and Iris. He has defied the odds by TWICE reaching the finals when he was the lone representative of his race in the final eight (something no other player since July in Shinhan 2005 OSL if I remember right). Jaedong has been doing his thing for years now, and it's up to you to apprecaite it or not. Just don't blame it on Jaedong if you can't appreciate him fully.
TL+ Member
LibertyTerran
Profile Joined July 2004
Vietnam711 Posts
October 18 2009 10:05 GMT
#216
On October 18 2009 18:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's just a glance at 3 eras of broodwar through my eyes.

Right there. That could have made a better title. I certainly don't look for anything like a thesis or points form here but if you can't put a title properly for your huge long post, it won't be a good post most definitely.
if it aint broke, dont fix it
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
October 18 2009 10:05 GMT
#217
On October 18 2009 16:48 QibingZero wrote:
Not even a shameless self-bump was going to de-derail your thread, you know...


^

Out of curiosity what was the de-railing point in your thread? Did you expect 20 pages of:

"Best article ever, awesome opinions."

It is an opinion piece clearly, most of the criticism was not that your opinions were wrong, but that your stance was not well defended. That is how you critique an opinion piece. To be honest I don't understand why this thread is getting so much attention and I also do not understand why there are those who are drawing up sympathy for you, particularly with the latest plexa write-up.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
October 18 2009 10:13 GMT
#218
On October 18 2009 17:10 siv00 wrote:
Jaedong's play in the finals of MSL/OSL was disappointing and he has lost his lethal countenance.

He's going to underperform, slump, drop out of both leagues and cease to be relevant.


This feels like troll-bait, but on the off-chance you're serious, I'll give a quick reply:

Jaedong was not in the MSL finals. In the semi-finals he was beaten by Calm - either by fluke or by masterful display of smart ZvZ or both. In the OSL finals he destroyed Yarnc, after destroying fantasy in the semifinals. Jaedong's only poor performance "recently" was the PL finals where he went 0-3 against 1) fantasy (closest thing he has to a direct rival atm), 2) his own inexplicable 12-hatch and 3) a "strategic play" from the SKT think-tank that, to quote fantasy, "anyone could have executed". In PL this year, he's only had a chance to play a single game (which he won). In short, what are you talking about?

I'll grant that there are now Zergs (Calm, EffOrt) playing much closer to Jaedong's level than at any time previously, but smart money says that - like the Maestro before him - Jaedong's going to have to be knocked off his pedestal and sat on a couple times before he "slumps" for more than, say, two weeks.

I don't even like Jaedong, but he is that good. If he doesn't make at least the Ro8 in both leagues, I will be highly, amazingly, and in all other ways, surprised.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-18 10:18:12
October 18 2009 10:15 GMT
#219
On October 18 2009 19:05 keV. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2009 16:48 QibingZero wrote:
Not even a shameless self-bump was going to de-derail your thread, you know...


^

Out of curiosity what was the de-railing point in your thread? Did you expect 20 pages of:

"Best article ever, awesome opinions."

It is an opinion piece clearly, most of the criticism was not that your opinions were wrong, but that your stance was not well defended. That is how you critique an opinion piece. To be honest I don't understand why this thread is getting so much attention and I also do not understand why there are those who are drawing up sympathy for you, particularly with the latest plexa write-up.


I was expecting people to comment on memories of the older players, discuss SC2 and what will happen to BW when it comes out, and talk about the growth/changes in the foreign scene.

It got attention, I like to think, because the OP had a lot of effort put into it and was well-written. Since it's not an argument I don't have to defend my stance. I wouldn't have to defend why I like The Doors and don't like Pink Floyd since there is no way to objectify that other than my own relative definition of what "good" music is.
RIP Aaliyah
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-18 10:35:41
October 18 2009 10:34 GMT
#220

I was expecting people to comment on memories of the older players, discuss SC2 and what will happen to BW when it comes out, and talk about the growth/changes in the foreign scene.


BORING. We only do that here once every other day...


So you weren't expecting critique? Maybe its just me who feels the "derailing" of your thread was massively exaggerated, which is disconcerting.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
19:00
ScienceCraft - Day 2
RotterdaM724
IndyStarCraft 463
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 724
IndyStarCraft 463
Hui .166
Classic 77
MindelVK 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50286
Shuttle 12766
Bisu 2017
BeSt 1935
Hyuk 583
Horang2 576
FanTaSy 575
EffOrt 491
Stork 327
firebathero 311
[ Show more ]
Snow 156
ProTech154
Larva 139
Mind 108
ggaemo 94
Bonyth 73
Last 73
sorry 53
Barracks 52
Sexy 52
Killer 48
Shinee 46
Movie 39
Pusan 38
ToSsGirL 38
Hm[arnc] 21
JYJ 21
Aegong 19
Rock 16
Sacsri 16
zelot 16
Shine 14
yabsab 14
soO 12
Noble 8
Dota 2
Gorgc13337
qojqva1820
Counter-Strike
fl0m2937
allub467
Other Games
singsing2609
B2W.Neo1455
Beastyqt669
Liquid`RaSZi590
Mlord535
DeMusliM187
KnowMe119
ToD116
syndereN82
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL20287
Other Games
gamesdonequick1149
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3449
League of Legends
• Nemesis2989
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 31m
WardiTV Weekly
21h 31m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 20h
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.