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On September 01 2009 09:52 Highways wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 09:48 Heen wrote:
Honestly, what the fuck does it matter? Starcraft is starcraft. Which category it belongs to changes nothing. Exactly. What the hell are you arguing about semantics? Who cares what it is classified as.
You bastards, you beat me to it.
Though I suppose it's a matter of pride to SC fans who want to get their admiration and fascination across to people who don't 'understand.' Unfortunately though, and I know this from experience, try to enlighten the unwashed masses just make the whole SC thing look stranger to them. I've decided to just leave it at "Yeah, I'm watching two guys play videogames. They're playing for millions of won and some of them date movie stars to the chagrin of thousands of teenage girls."
-edit- thousands sounds more awe-inspiring
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On September 01 2009 10:36 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 10:32 Stratos_speAr wrote:
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing baseball or basketball requires any sort of mental ability. See how distorted and ridiculous I can make that sound? How about you try to get over 300 APM and have all 300 or more of those actions mean something? I doubt you can. The ridiculous thing here is that everyone who says "Starcraft isn't a sport" says it with an absolutely ridiculous tone like they revere the current cultural norm for a sport, like baseball or basketball. What makes those so amazing? You look at lots of sports and you see people playing a recreational hobby that is played by kids all over the world as a hobby they do for fun. The difference is that these "athletes" get paid to do it. Furthermore, people watch them do it (and pay to watch them in many cases). What's the ONLY difference between that and Starcraft? The level of physical and mental activity, which is an inherit difference between ANY two competitive games (YES, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc... these are ALL games). Korea makes the rest of the world look like closed-minded assholes when it comes to this - the country has readily accepted something that isn't as athletically driven and is more mentally driven as one of the most popular things in the country to watch. Seriously list off the main attributes that make any sport a sport and you can say the same for Starcraft - professionals practice hours a day to do it? Check. They make a living doing it exclusively? Check. They compete against other professionals? Check. There's teams/sponsors? Check. People come to events to watch it? Check. There's TV channels dedicated to it EXCLUSIVELY? Check. The ONLY difference is the physical and mental demands. Stuff like basketball, baseball, football, etc... have a far higher physical demand but a far lower mental demand than Starcraft. Really people, this just shows humanity's ignorance and closed-mindedness that just because Starcraft isn't nearly as physical as something, all of a sudden it's not as good. Who in the world was arguing that sports have to have a mental criteria? I'm not trying to downplay Starcraft, I love the game. It's just not a sport. Just like Starcraft is not a religion either. I have no intention of getting over 300 APM or 300 EAPM. What the fuck is with nearly every single "Starcraft as a sport" person trying to manipulate other people's words. I'd rather side with the people that are saying it isn't a sport without providing any backup than these idiots who are actually twisting shit around.
Now you're just backpedalling and relying on pure semantics. It's fairly damn reasonable to say that you can, from the OP, gather that he's talking about accepting Starcraft as a legitimate competitive "recreational activity" just as basketball or whatever other "sport" is accepted as in the U.S. or any other country.
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in response to the OP's original question, the best way would be to get them to play for themselves
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote:
Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
1) don't call people kids when most people on tl are older than you
2) you may not consider golf/bowling/whatever to be sports, but all pro golfers train harder and most have better physiques than the guy who plays soccer on his high school team
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To answer the OP's question - tell him the facts, that Starcraft is only less popular than soccer in South Korea, that it's just as watched and just as popular as any sport in the U.S. (relatively speaking), that people make a living play it, and that it has 3 TV stations dedicated to it and it alone.
And while I've not made any new Starcraft fans by telling them of it, I've gotten some to actually respect it.
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On September 01 2009 10:34 Picture wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 10:24 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 01 2009 10:13 Picture wrote:On September 01 2009 10:05 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 01 2009 10:02 Picture wrote:On September 01 2009 09:47 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 01 2009 09:37 Dametri wrote:On September 01 2009 09:33 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 01 2009 09:24 Dametri wrote:On September 01 2009 09:01 TheSchwA wrote:[quote] Not a sport here either, champ. Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing." http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sport This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature." You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever. You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require. The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport. On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote:
There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport. Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school. dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility. Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up? Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple. Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect... You're going from... Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch. I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt + Show Spoiler + You talk like there is anything else in the definition that sc doesn't fit in. Obviously he's going to argue about the definition of athletic because that is the only word you can question whether sc requires. Also do you consider curling a sport? Or for the person who uses not being idle as a pre-requisite, archery or weight lifting? I could easily name more. It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability. You can say the same for many "sports". So, is there anything besides the word athletic in the definition of sport that you dont think can be related to sc? If not you can apologize to him for accusing him of taking words out of context. Thanks. PS. The picture you posted is a joke. The guy who made it is clever but his first statement should be "Getting girls requires you to have time and money", not "Girls=Time x money". And if you replace the "=" with "requires" and you accept those old sayings to be true, then yes the conclusion is correct. Stop mixing up people's posts. I said I couldn't believe that people were arguing that playing a video game could require athletic ability, not that it was a prerequisite that a sport had athletic ability. Get your facts straight. We also arguing beyond the word athletic because that was the word in particular he singled out. Stop bringing up irrelevant topics please. So you can apologize to me for taking my words out of context. Thanks. PS. You also missed the entire point of it. Even he understood what I was trying to say. He just thought I was an ass in the way I did it. You sir, are completely unbelievable. More straw mans. Yay. How am I mixing up posts? They are all quoted together. When I said sc requires athletic ability, obviously I meant PLAYING sc. How can a SPORT have athletic ability? Lmao. Sorry but you are the one going off topic. Just accept the fact that you wrongfully blamed him for singling out a word and taking it out of context. You thought your girl=time x money pic was relevant? Or pretty much this entire post of yours? Unbelievable? Right back at you.
You... have... got... to... be... kidding... me... the amount of stupidity coming from you is dumbfounding. I'm borderline willing to apologize to the other guy on the sole basis that he actually tried to form a logical argument with his trivial definition semantics.
A sport can REQUIRE (not "have" moron) athletic ability. What I said was that it is NOT a prerequisite to be a sport. However, people are trying to argue that Starcraft requires athleticism. Thus, logically, that being my argument, your post was completely either offtopic or you mixed up someone's post.
Saying that Starcraft doesn't require athleticism is related to sports how? That was your entire post.
+ Show Spoiler +"You can say the same for many "sports". So, is there anything besides the word athletic in the definition of sport that you dont think can be related to sc? If not you can apologize to him for accusing him of taking words out of context. Thanks."
No mention of sport was in my post whatsoever. The rest of your entire post generally consists of "you know you're wrong, admit it," which is completely ignorant.
My entire post was critiquing the fact he decided to single out a word. That's not wrongfully blaming moron. That's critiquing the argument. That's finding a fallacy in the entire foundation of his argument. The girl = time x money pick was relevant, as you still fail to realize, because it was taking completely different definitions of the same words and saying they were equal to each other. It was to show how he was mimicking the same thing, using words interchangeably when I was saying they couldn't be.
As you've so ironically said before, "just accept the fact you're wrong." Bahahaha.
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On September 01 2009 10:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 10:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 01 2009 10:32 Stratos_speAr wrote:
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing baseball or basketball requires any sort of mental ability. See how distorted and ridiculous I can make that sound? How about you try to get over 300 APM and have all 300 or more of those actions mean something? I doubt you can. The ridiculous thing here is that everyone who says "Starcraft isn't a sport" says it with an absolutely ridiculous tone like they revere the current cultural norm for a sport, like baseball or basketball. What makes those so amazing? You look at lots of sports and you see people playing a recreational hobby that is played by kids all over the world as a hobby they do for fun. The difference is that these "athletes" get paid to do it. Furthermore, people watch them do it (and pay to watch them in many cases). What's the ONLY difference between that and Starcraft? The level of physical and mental activity, which is an inherit difference between ANY two competitive games (YES, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc... these are ALL games). Korea makes the rest of the world look like closed-minded assholes when it comes to this - the country has readily accepted something that isn't as athletically driven and is more mentally driven as one of the most popular things in the country to watch. Seriously list off the main attributes that make any sport a sport and you can say the same for Starcraft - professionals practice hours a day to do it? Check. They make a living doing it exclusively? Check. They compete against other professionals? Check. There's teams/sponsors? Check. People come to events to watch it? Check. There's TV channels dedicated to it EXCLUSIVELY? Check. The ONLY difference is the physical and mental demands. Stuff like basketball, baseball, football, etc... have a far higher physical demand but a far lower mental demand than Starcraft. Really people, this just shows humanity's ignorance and closed-mindedness that just because Starcraft isn't nearly as physical as something, all of a sudden it's not as good. Who in the world was arguing that sports have to have a mental criteria? I'm not trying to downplay Starcraft, I love the game. It's just not a sport. Just like Starcraft is not a religion either. I have no intention of getting over 300 APM or 300 EAPM. What the fuck is with nearly every single "Starcraft as a sport" person trying to manipulate other people's words. I'd rather side with the people that are saying it isn't a sport without providing any backup than these idiots who are actually twisting shit around. Now you're just backpedalling and relying on pure semantics. It's fairly damn reasonable to say that you can, from the OP, gather that he's talking about accepting Starcraft as a legitimate competitive "recreational activity" just as basketball or whatever other "sport" is accepted as in the U.S. or any other country.
How is that backpedaling? You just attempted to refute my argument with a "mental" criteria to sports, something that no one has argued thus far. That's like me saying Starcraft shouldn't be a sport because it doesn't involve catching a ball midair. Oh wait, catching a ball midair is in no way a criteria of being a sport, nor even semi-related to being considered a sport.
EDIT: Concerning all the sponsored stuff, you can be sponsored for anything. That isn't relevant in being a sport. Practicing to get better isn't anything either. I've thrown a party sponsored by Rockstar (not by myself, someone else actually got the sponsor). I've practiced many things. Although I have no idea what it's like concerning Starcraft progaming, I've been sponsored before for video games, I've had to practice a shitton to win tournaments to the point I called in sick to school to get enough practice time in, etc. I've won over $5,000 in prizes from competing in video games. None of that shit makes it a sport. As someone else said, are we going to make the spelling bee a sport, now that people practice/are sponsored, etc.? Mental prowess AND it requires "agility" by moving your lips to speak and walking up to the microphone.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 01 2009 10:16 RoieTRS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2009 10:09 TheSchwA wrote:On September 01 2009 10:05 baubo wrote:On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote:
Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though. Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game). I know I've always wanted a body like this. I never said golf was a sport, just like a I never said nascar is a sport, or bowling, or pool, or darts, or StarCraft. So shut the fuck up. Those are sports. You are now saying that Starcraft is not a sport, and that sports aren't sports either.
Those are just as much in the grey area as Starcraft is. It's all semantics, so this really doesn't need to be argued further.
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Osaka27178 Posts
This thread is a downward spiral.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.onemorething.it/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/proof_that_girls_r_evil.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.nndb.com/people/577/000026499/john-daly-golfer.jpg)
