would it be possible for someone or a collection of people to devise a short and concise article, with youtube links (eg artosis/cholera commentated games) , to explain to a random [female] non-gamer, why starcraft is a sport, and why it is worthwhile?
i had a few friends over the other day (aged mid 20s), who dont have the patience/willing to watch a VOD, who say things like "darts is not a sport, starcraft is not a sport" and "it doesnt matter how many people watch it - big brother is competitive and millions watch it"
i know this topic has been made before, but really with so many people here , there should be written (maybe in featured threads) a simple and comprehensive introduction for nongamers to starcraft
ive been friends with these people for 15+ years and they know ive been into sc for half of that time, but i dont seem to be able to connect the basic facts with them. they arent THAT stupid, maybe closed-minded....
i ended up showing that recent 15 second vid someone took at blizzcon fpv of a progamer tapping the keyboard. what i really want is a comprehensive article i can show to people , let them read a certain amount, then play an embedded youtube commentary to illustrate something
i dont know, i guess im blathering a little. maybe it would help if i present this question to you:
how have you successfully introduced a [nongamer] friend to starcraft something that you value and would like your friends to see the value of?
dont give me this crap about "some ppl are just stupid/closed-minded and dont deserve this effort". thats taking the easy way out and a starcraft player is stronger than that imo
Beat them 1v3 and they will understand that you need mad skill and dedication to be good at this game. ( Any semi decent D+ player should be able to stomp real complete beginners 1v3. )
Then tell them that you suck and there are people ( pros ) 1000x better than you.
On September 01 2009 07:55 EndlessRain wrote: You're an idiot and your friends are right. Darts and starcraft are games not sports.
I think Starcraft is an (E)sport i'm an idiot ?
[x] Sick competition [x] Physical skills needed ( close attention, sick brain for multitasking, accuracy, time response etc ..) [x] You need to play everyday if you want to keep your shape.
On September 01 2009 07:55 EndlessRain wrote: You're an idiot and your friends are right. Darts and starcraft are games not sports.
What about Golf? Speed chess or something?
Anyways with the game/sport debate... I find it's not too important. SC is probably "just a game" but so are universally respected games like chess and go and poker (although I guess poker may not be universally respected...)
StarCraft isn't a sport, it's an e-Sport. There's a small difference, and I don't think we're ready to cross the boundary and refer to them in the same way.
On September 01 2009 07:55 EndlessRain wrote: You're an idiot and your friends are right. Darts and starcraft are games not sports.
Then isn't soccer just a game as well? what about bowling, pool...? They're all just games if played casually. Sports if played competitively.
Let's not really get into that discussion. Whether or not Starcraft is a sport is entirely up to definitions, along with the thousand other gray-area activities. Strictly speaking, Starcraft isn't a sport in that it isn't an athletic activity, but that definition has been loosened in so many cases that it's all up to personal interpretation at this point.
This is a very tired subject. As much as I love starcraft, I think it's very stupid to consider it a sport. In my eyes, a sport must need some sort of physicality...whereas starcraft is sitting in front of a computer. I'd take starcraft's side on pretty much any argument, but it's stupid to try to justify it as a sport.
When StarCraft makes it into the Indoor Olympics in Korea this year, EndlessRain is gonna eat those words.
edit-
On September 01 2009 08:00 Sixer wrote: This is a very tired subject. As much as I love starcraft, I think it's very stupid to consider it a sport. In my eyes, a sport must need some sort of physicality...whereas starcraft is sitting in front of a computer. I'd take starcraft's side on pretty much any argument, but it's stupid to try to justify it as a sport.
On September 01 2009 07:58 Pokebunny wrote: StarCraft isn't a sport, it's an e-Sport. There's a small difference, and I don't think we're ready to cross the boundary and refer to them in the same way.
i say we start a riot at the next olympic setting, and complain until they put starcraft in it, or until they shoot us all.
LOLLLLLLLLLL hahahaha this article itself is so funny troll? idk but starcraft is definately not a sport so world of warcraft is a sport too? xD and moving your fingers around the keyboard is sooooo hard. so piano and typing are sports too? xD hahaha just face it. starcraft is a game, a hobby, an "e-sport" but definately not a sport
If chess is considered a sport, starcraft should be too.
Still i think, it doesnt make any difference if you call it a sport or not. It's what you think it is. Some think its a waste of time, and we love it. Thats it.
On September 01 2009 08:00 Sixer wrote: This is a very tired subject. As much as I love starcraft, I think it's very stupid to consider it a sport. In my eyes, a sport must need some sort of physicality...whereas starcraft is sitting in front of a computer. I'd take starcraft's side on pretty much any argument, but it's stupid to try to justify it as a sport.
i got this kid at school that said sports must contain a ball of some sort, soccer, football, hockey. Are all considered sports cuz they have a "ball" he also said that michael phelps wasn't an athelete because swimming wasn't a sport and didn't have a ball..
Man that kid got flamed so much by the swimming/cross country coaches its not even funny.
On September 01 2009 08:03 alt.tday wrote: LOLLLLLLLLLL hahahaha this article itself is so funny troll? idk but starcraft is definately not a sport so world of warcraft is a sport too? xD and moving your fingers around the keyboard is sooooo hard. so piano and typing are sports too? xD hahaha just face it. starcraft is a game, a hobby, an "e-sport" but definately not a sport
eh obvious troll, i would 2day ban you for this
mani i shouted SIX ACTIONS PER SECOND at them i WAS getting thru to them, but meh. i swear a comprehensive article with step by step instruction would do (me) a world of good. my friends are all living in different counties now so i dont see them often at all, and not for long, and whilst drunk. a mindblowing article and collection of english vods wud be understandably useful
On September 01 2009 08:01 Manifesto7 wrote: Does 400 apm count as physicality?
In all honesty, i'd say no.
To me, it doesn't matter how well you play it, or how competitive it is; starcraft is a video game. It's my favorite game of all time and i've put thousands of hours into it (and continue to daily), but that doesn't justify it as a sport.
Whether Starcraft is a sport is purely a matter of definition. There are concepts like training, coaching, competitivity, sponsoring, tournaments, rankings, media coverage, prizes etc. like in lots of other sports. Then again, Starcraft requires little to no physical fitness, which may be required by some definitions. But does it matter?
Tell them it is a highly competitive computer game that is still played over 11 years after its release; that should speak volumes about its pure quality and depth of strategy. Also tell them that there is a progaming scene in Korea with a few hundred players actually making a living from playing, and it is so incredibly popular that there are multiple TV stations dedicated to Starcraft coverage, and even the Air Force has their own progaming team.
The best way is to ask them to define the criterias for a sport. Then try to get them to include chess, curling, football into thoose criterias. When they have managed to form criterias where all thoose fit, you can just point out that SC fit there too. It's just that's it's so new it's not socially accepted yet.
But the problem I have is that many other games should not be considered sports because they have the depth of a bathtub. so yeah, it can be a tricky question.
sport (spôrt, sprt) n. 1. a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively. b. A particular form of this activity. 2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively. 3. An active pastime; recreation.
Starcraft is a game that does have rules and customs, and is engaged competitively. As far as physical activity/exertion, progamers have to work/train hard for hours a day to keep their hand speed up and to keep their brain (which just like actual muscles need to be exercised) sharp. According to definition, Starcraft is a sport.
It's an e-sport, slightly different from sports =_= Slightly off topic, do dictionaries even have e-sports in their definitions yet? They have e-mail so e-sports should be included as well.
and golf is seriously hard to play well. I've been practicing for about a year and only yesterday was I able to hit the ball consistently well. They have a tournament like every week and professional golf is more unforgiving than zvz. Missing a putt could mean the difference between winning a million dollars and winning just 500,000. I can barely keep my balls on the green and the ones we get are like double the width of the ones that professionals play on =/
On September 01 2009 08:15 DarkShadowz wrote: The best way is to ask them to define the criterias for a sport. Then try to get them to include chess, curling, football into thoose criterias. When they have managed to form criterias where all thoose fit, you can just point out that SC fit there too. It's just that's it's so new it's not socially accepted yet.
This is basically the right approach. I think for most people saying "Starcraft isn't a sport" is just a gut reaction. People have grown up with seeing football, basketball and the olympics and have this mental image of that being what a sport should be like. Then when they see two people sitting behind a computer they go "that doesn't look anything like football/olympics" and instantly decide that it can't be a sport. If you want people to accept Starcraft as a sport you need to get them to get past this gut reaction and really think about what makes something a sport or just a game.
To me what makes something a sport are two things: Competition and Spectatorship. If you have people competing to be the best at something, and an audience willing and eager to watch them duke it out, then that makes something a sport. I know that this means that technically, things like music competitions would also be a sport. But I would say that, is there really that big a difference between music/art competitions and sports? Language is always an imprecise thing, so it's silly to get hung up over the exact nuts and bolts of a word definition. For me anything that has competitors working their behinds off to be the best and compete in front of their fans deserves recognition as a sport, or at least the respect that the word implies.
On September 01 2009 08:26 Avidkeystamper wrote: Just for reference? What type of training do professional golf players undergo?
Id say they would work on the angle of their shots, and using the wind to their benifit.
Anyway, starcraft is a sport. If its not, then soccer, football, chess, darts, hockey are not sports as well.
And for the "physical thing", many teams require their players to hit the gym for an hour because a physically fit body can endure more (why do you think Reach is so good
To answer the op's question, just show them an FPVOD of a top tier player, then show them a picture of a stadium of a Finals, then let them try the game out, and explain some deep strategies (ie. all the logic behind corsair/reaver into massing units... well thats not that deep but its still, another example is counting Pylons in PvP).
The main thing is to arouse their curiosity casually, so dont start going like "OMG SC HBLABLABLABLABLA E-sPORTS." (im against yelling of any kind in general). This makes them find things out for themselves, and they will enjoy it a lot more.
On September 01 2009 08:10 gaggar wrote: starcraft is part mind sport and part real sport.
i requires depth of strategy moreso than chess
yet the physical endurance is more used than bowling or golf.
You be absolutely crazy. Please don't compare starcraft to things you have no idea about.
To me, sports aren't associated with physical activities at all. It's all about competition. If you can make money (preferably big money) by being a professional player, it's a sport.
Reach lost to tossgirl lolol It's hard to define what a sport is exactly, but starcraft uses way more mental than physical abilities, as does chess or whatever. You can tell if something is a sport or not using your judgment. Soccer is a sport, darts is definitely not.
Those of you believe StarCraft is a sport are lying to yourselves to make yourselves feel better, and apparently have yet to actually look up the definition of 'sport.' Wikipedia does NOT count as a valid source either..
reach threw that game. who wouldnt tbh. did you see tossgirl in stx? hot damn that should head my fucking article.....damn idiot male friends.....haha
TheSchwA gets a 2day ban fyi
please dont forget my bolded question. i dont think anyone has addressed it yet. i only made the title "sport??" because my original title wasnt long enough and it would add a bit of spontaenious interest. if anyone read my topic they would realise im not bothered about the definition of sport, rather how to portray sc as a sport
I honestly don't view Starcraft as a sport and agree with them. I can't find video games to be a sport, not the way we play them. I understand how the situation is different in Korea, but I define sport as something that requires some form of athleticism or hand-eye coordination. Hands on, physical, interactive.
You could say it's an e-sport, but e-sport =/= sport imo. You can't argue to your friends that you're playing a sport when you go home and play a video game. I'd say even saying you're "competing" in an e-sport is a stretch.
I also would possible contest darts as being a sport, but it would be more so than starcraft at least.
On September 01 2009 08:44 starflash wrote: reach threw that game. who wouldnt tbh. did you see tossgirl in stx? hot damn that should head my fucking article.....damn idiot male friends.....haha
TheSchwA gets a 2day ban fyi
Don't backseat mod.
If you feel like you need to convince your friends, you do the work. Don't come on here asking others to put something together for you.
Isn't tabletop foosball a sport? Anything requiring exceptionable skill with the use of the body and mind is a sport, and starcraft takes both. If your uncoordinated you lose.
A lot of sports like snooker or darts have little physical element beyond technique. The same can be said for keyboard muscle memory. Hitting 1a2a3a reliably and building workers every 13 seconds can be practiced the same way as a snooker player practices hitting the ball the exact way he wants it. Endless physical repetition. It's the competition and the mental strategy element that makes those sports and that exists in Starcraft too.
On September 01 2009 08:42 TheSchwA wrote: Those of you believe StarCraft is a sport are lying to yourselves to make yourselves feel better, and apparently have yet to actually look up the definition of 'sport.' Wikipedia does NOT count as a valid source either..
IMO this is accurate. If people were comfortable with being into a video game to this extent, they wouldn't need to compare it to something else that is generally accepted.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport. It's not a sport if you go by general public's idea of what a sport is.
So you can argue that "technically", starcraft is a sport, but you're not going to get anywhere because most people limit sports to stuff you see on ESPN.
On September 01 2009 08:26 Avidkeystamper wrote: Just for reference? What type of training do professional golf players undergo?
Depends on the golfer. Tiger Woods is known for his insane work out regimes and being one of the most physically fit athletes on tour. Of course all golfers work on their shots as well, some just go above and beyond.
On September 01 2009 08:44 starflash wrote: reach threw that game. who wouldnt tbh. did you see tossgirl in stx? hot damn that should head my fucking article.....damn idiot male friends.....haha
TheSchwA gets a 2day ban fyi
Don't backseat mod.
If you feel like you need to convince your friends, you do the work. Don't come on here asking others to put something together for you.
close the thread if thats your attitude. i made my intentions clear
Making Sports Dollars ------->Something is a sport ESPORTS Dollars are a kind of sport dollar Starcraft is an ESPORT ________________________________= Starcraft is a sport.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
On September 01 2009 08:15 DarkShadowz wrote: The best way is to ask them to define the criterias for a sport. Then try to get them to include chess, curling, football into thoose criterias. When they have managed to form criterias where all thoose fit, you can just point out that SC fit there too. It's just that's it's so new it's not socially accepted yet.
The thing is, chess isn't considered a sport to 100% of the general populace, which is why this is an issue of definitions.
On September 01 2009 08:24 Oai wrote: As far as physical activity/exertion, progamers have to work/train hard for hours a day to keep their hand speed up and to keep their brain (which just like actual muscles need to be exercised) sharp. According to definition, Starcraft is a sport.
While most progamers do this, there's a very legitimate argument that since physical training isn't REQUIRED in order to be proficient at the game (IIRC Fantasy has said in interviews he doesn't work out nearly as much as the rest of the team), it doesn't qualify as a sport.
On September 01 2009 09:01 cgrinker wrote: According to my calculations:
Making Sports Dollars ------->Something is a sport ESPORTS Dollars are a kind of sport dollar Starcraft is an ESPORT ________________________________= Starcraft is a sport.
On September 01 2009 09:03 Manifesto7 wrote: Curling is an Olympic sport, I am pretty sure people consider it a sport.
That's true, though I have met people who don't consider that adequate criteria for a sport (they said Fencing wasn't a sport for some godawful reason). Nonetheless, I'll edit.
Now in relevance to the actual OP:
On September 01 2009 07:40 starflash wrote: how have you successfully introduced a [nongamer] friend to starcraft something that you value and would like your friends to see the value of?
In general, trying to show that gaming is something of value to people who haven't done so themselves is kind of hard. How closed-minded are they to gaming in general? Because if they don't see that as an activity of value, you might want to backtrack and start there first.
Call it an E-sport, call it whatever you want. To me it's a game, just like Pool, Counter Strike, Foosball, Halo, and darts are a game. It may have competition, teams, and sponsorships, but so do spelling bees. Just because you have to think hard and move your hands quick doesn't make it a sport.
A guy in a long division competition that requires him to do jazz hands isn't a sport, regardless of whether or not he hits the gym in between.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
You might want to check the dictionary for the word "broad".
Original, sport and game are used interchangeably. It's a recreational activity. The definition you cited is already an artificial one that came about because of society's idea of what a sport is.
On a side note, I just realized that is the most restrictive definition of sports around. SC would be considered a sport by even the strictest definitions on Webster or Cambridge dictionary.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
In any case there are sports - even olympic sports like ping pong - that rely almost entirely on the speed and skill of one's hands - and I'd have to say that SC requires more from someone's hands/wrists than ping pong. But in any case the concept of a "sport" is purely semantical. Almost any activity could be considered a sport when done competitively. Consider race car driving. There are a ridiculous number of people in america alone who would lynch anyone trying to say that it's not a sport - and yet all it involves is very slight movement of one's hands for an extended period of time. I'm sure there were arguments that took place near to the time of the inception of competitive racing very similar to the one taking place here. "Driving a car, a sport? gtfo"
Its on TV. They are paid. A crowd watches. There is some degree of physicality, i've seen players playing so hard they are streaming sweat. Hand eye cordination..yes. There are teams.
If its not a sport its doing a damn fine job of impersonating one.
You can't expect to convince someone that Starcraft is a sport without having some influence on their mental representation of this word "sport." And frankly, I don't think you can really change someone's idea of what counts as a sport, not even with citing Wikipedia or the dictionary. People don't rely on those sources for their working definitions of commonplace words, people develop internal definitions based on experiences and how they hear the words used by others. Whether or not a video game can be a sport has more to do with the word "sport" than the particular video game, and I don't think it matters much either way.
Don't agonize over convincing them that SC is a sport. It would be more worthwhile to convince them that despite being "just a video game," Starcraft really does have some intellectual merit.
In sports you move your body, including all or some muscle groups, with coordination and speed to execute difficult skills which you can showcase for money in front of audiences. Soccer requires swift and accurate, coordinated use of the feet and body. Table tennis mainly requires the use of the hands. Starcraft requires incredibly coordinated movements of the hands and also has a strong mental element. A sport? Duh.
There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school. Many people go watch magicians, and other random shit. Spectator value defining it as a sport? Please.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Curious, I get a different one from you:
* Main Entry: dex·ter·i·ty * Pronunciation: \dek-ˈster-ə-tē, -ˈste-rə-\ * Function: noun * Inflected Form(s): plural dex·ter·i·ties * Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French dexterité, from Latin dexteritat-, dexteritas, from dexter * Date: 1518
1 : mental skill or quickness : adroitness 2 : readiness and grace in physical activity; especially : skill and ease in using the hands <manual dexterity>
This discussion really doesn't need to continue, seeing as it's entirely about where your definitions come from and your personal opinion. It's kind of going too far when you're trying to feel around in the differences between two dictionary definitions for the same word.
On September 01 2009 09:33 FabledIntegral wrote: Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school. Many people go watch magicians, and other random shit. Spectator value defining it as a sport? Please.
You really distorted my point. It's more a combination of a competition + spectators.
Is it not reasonable to say that an "eSport" is a sub-class of "sport?" So, with this, we can say that it's a sport. This is purely semantic, but sometimes this is the best (simplest) approach to something.
Similarly "eMail" is a subclass of "mail," as it is a type of mail, no?
Of course, the semantic approach has limitations; "chainmail" wouldn't be considered a type of "mail (form of communication)" unless you wanted the number of cuil to skyrocket from 1 to like 3 or something. ~_~
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school. Many people go watch magicians, and other random shit. Spectator value defining it as a sport? Please.
Please let us know how you define a sport. It's what it all come down too. To say it's not a sport becasue it's infront of the computer doesn't make sense, like if you play chess online it's not a sport but if you play it with your noob friends at home it's considered a sport?
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school. Many people go watch magicians, and other random shit. Spectator value defining it as a sport? Please.
Please let us know how you define a sport. It's what it all come down too. To say it's not a sport becasue it's infront of the computer doesn't make sense, like if you play chess online it's not a sport but if you play it with your noob friends at home it's considered a sport?
Chess is not a sport. I doubt you could name something where you are sitting idly and I could consider it a sport. A sport requires some degree of athleticism, and by my minimum criteria requires that you are not idle in the process. In starcraft, you are idle. In chess, you are idle. Neither are sports. One's a video game, the other is a board game. They just happen to be incredibly entertaining games in their own particular genre.
On September 01 2009 09:44 Thesecretaznman wrote: Is it not reasonable to say that an "eSport" is a sub-class of "sport?" So, with this, we can say that it's a sport. This is purely semantic, but sometimes this is the best (simplest) approach to something.
Similarly "eMail" is a subclass of "mail," as it is a type of mail, no?
Of course, the semantic approach has limitations; "chainmail" wouldn't be considered a type of "mail (form of communication)" unless you wanted the number of cuil to skyrocket from 1 to like 3 or something. ~_~
E-mail isn't a type of mail. It has properties that are analogous to actual mail, but it isn't a type of mail. Packages and letters are types of mail.
Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
And what is your argument? You have none. You're going the creationist route and trying to point out a logical fallacy in an argument that is purely semantical while presenting absolutely nothing constructive on your side. ALL you've been saying is "i believe SC does not require agility or athleticism and is not a sport" while providing absolutely nothing but groundless vitriol to support your contention.
And let me reiterate that you're trying to use "self evident logic" in a SEMANTICAL ARGUMENT. If you want to argue logically about whether SC is a sport, read my earlier post about ping-pong and racecar driving, and don't post again if you don't have something pertaining directly to my SEMANTICAL argument of the definition of sport, or something pertaining to the LOGICAL argument that I presented.
Not to mention that you must have been held back repeatedly in english class if you're unable to understand that "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness" in no way implies movement of one's full body, and applies quite well to the movements a starcraft player makes. Also, look up "nimbleness" in your free time.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
And what is your argument? You have none. You're going the creationist route and trying to point out a logical fallacy in an argument that is purely semantical while presenting absolutely nothing constructive on your side. ALL you've been saying is "i believe SC does not require agility or athleticism and is not a sport" while providing absolutely nothing but groundless vitriol to support your contention.
And let me reiterate that you're trying to use "self evident logic" in a SEMANTICAL ARGUMENT. If you want to argue logically about whether SC is a sport, read my earlier post about ping-pong and racecar driving, and don't post again if you don't have something pertaining directly to my SEMANTICAL argument of the definition of sport, or something pertaining to the LOGICAL argument that I presented.
First of all, shut the fuck up. Don't you dare tell me "not to post again" because YOU think your argument has some semblance of logic. Just because I attempted to pick apart your "logical" argument as you state it without having my criteria doesn't make it valid.
To go on your silly little creationist analogy, it's similar to someone who is atheist picking apart Creationist explanations, and when asked himself he replies "I'm not sure." Does he have to bring his own explanation to provide a flaw in someone else's argument? The answer is quite simply, no.
I'm pointing out that the very semantics of your argument break it. As said, are you going to argue that the girls = root of all equal, while logical according to the math, is right for those reasons? Of course not.
I had no problem arguing whether or not Starcraft is a sport, I gave my own fucking opinion on your silly little argument and you gave some bullshit trolling response on how you can refute it and my post contained little substance.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
You talk like there is anything else in the definition that sc doesn't fit in. Obviously he's going to argue about the definition of athletic because that is the only word you can question whether sc requires. Also do you consider curling a sport? Or for the person who uses not being idle as a pre-requisite, archery or weight lifting? I could easily name more.
On September 01 2009 10:00 FabledIntegral wrote: First of all, shut the fuck up. Don't you dare tell me "not to post again" because YOU think your argument has some semblance of logic. Just because I attempted to pick apart your "logical" argument as you state it without having my criteria doesn't make it valid.
To go on your silly little creationist analogy, it's similar to someone who is atheist picking apart Creationist explanations, and when asked himself he replies "I'm not sure." Does he have to bring his own explanation to provide a flaw in someone else's argument? The answer is quite simply, no.
I'm pointing out that the very semantics of your argument break it. As said, are you going to argue that the girls = root of all equal, while logical according to the math, is right for those reasons? Of course not.
I had no problem arguing whether or not Starcraft is a sport, I gave my own fucking opinion on your silly little argument and you gave some bullshit trolling response on how you can refute it and my post contained little substance.
You're not worth my time. I'll let our respective posts speak for themselves and readers can judge.
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game).
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
You talk like there is anything else in the definition that sc doesn't fit in. Obviously he's going to argue about the definition of athletic because that is the only word you can question whether sc requires. Also do you consider curling a sport? Or for the person who uses not being idle as a pre-requisite, archery or weight lifting? I could easily name more.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game).
I know I've always wanted a body like this.
I never said golf was a sport, just like a I never said nascar is a sport, or bowling, or pool, or darts, or StarCraft. So shut the fuck up.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
You talk like there is anything else in the definition that sc doesn't fit in. Obviously he's going to argue about the definition of athletic because that is the only word you can question whether sc requires. Also do you consider curling a sport? Or for the person who uses not being idle as a pre-requisite, archery or weight lifting? I could easily name more.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
You can say the same for many "sports". So, is there anything besides the word athletic in the definition of sport that you dont think can be related to sc? If not you can apologize to him for accusing him of taking words out of context. Thanks.
PS. The picture you posted is a joke. The guy who made it is clever but his first statement should be "Getting girls requires you to have time and money", not "Girls=Time x money". And if you replace the "=" with "requires" and you accept those old sayings to be true, then yes the conclusion is correct.
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game).
I know I've always wanted a body like this.
I never said golf was a sport, just like a I never said nascar is a sport, or bowling, or pool, or darts, or StarCraft. So shut the fuck up.
Those are sports. You are now saying that Starcraft is not a sport, and that sports aren't sports either.
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game).
I know I've always wanted a body like this.
I never said golf was a sport, just like a I never said nascar is a sport, or bowling, or pool, or darts, or StarCraft. So shut the fuck up.
Those are sports. You are now saying that Starcraft is not a sport, and that sports aren't sports either.
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game).
I know I've always wanted a body like this.
I never said golf was a sport, just like a I never said nascar is a sport, or bowling, or pool, or darts, or StarCraft. So shut the fuck up.
Those are sports. You are now saying that Starcraft is not a sport, and that sports aren't sports either.
You're an idiot, get out.
The level of sophistication to the extensive logic and detailed arguments made by those contending SC isn't a sport is so profound that I think I just shat myself.
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game).
I know I've always wanted a body like this.
I never said golf was a sport, just like a I never said nascar is a sport, or bowling, or pool, or darts, or StarCraft. So shut the fuck up.
Those are sports. You are now saying that Starcraft is not a sport, and that sports aren't sports either.
You're an idiot, get out.
lose some attitude man. most people here don't sit behind the computer and play games all day (I think lol). Don't make a stereotype about people you've never met.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
You talk like there is anything else in the definition that sc doesn't fit in. Obviously he's going to argue about the definition of athletic because that is the only word you can question whether sc requires. Also do you consider curling a sport? Or for the person who uses not being idle as a pre-requisite, archery or weight lifting? I could easily name more.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
You can say the same for many "sports". So, is there anything besides the word athletic in the definition of sport that you dont think can be related to sc? If not you can apologize to him for accusing him of taking words out of context. Thanks.
PS. The picture you posted is a joke. The guy who made it is clever but his first statement should be "Getting girls requires you to have time and money", not "Girls=Time x money". And if you replace the "=" with "requires" and you accept those old sayings to be true, then yes the conclusion is correct.
Stop mixing up people's posts. I said I couldn't believe that people were arguing that playing a video game could require athletic ability, not that it was a prerequisite that a sport had athletic ability. Get your facts straight. We also arguing beyond the word athletic because that was the word in particular he singled out. Stop bringing up irrelevant topics please. So you can apologize to me for taking my words out of context. Thanks.
PS. You also missed the entire point of it. Even he understood what I was trying to say. He just thought I was an ass in the way I did it. You sir, are completely unbelievable.
Starcraft is special because it sits on the borderline between mind-sport and physical-sport. That is, if you actually think there's a distinction. I think for most of you, the key aspect zeroed in on is the physical aspect. So, the question can be rephrased as "Is Starcraft physically demanding enough to be a sport?"
To answer this, I asked myself some questions, and you should ask yourself too:
Is poker a sport? Probably not. It's more a game played in the mind. But it has gained so much popularity, it's on the same scale in terms of sheer number of players as many other sports. But it's not a sport. Is DDR a sport? It's more physical, that's for sure. The Dutch government officially made it a sport a few years back. Does that mean someone living outside the Netherlands thinks DDR is a sport? Probably not. Is chess a sport? Could be called that. It's been around for so long. Professional chess is considered a valid sport in many areas around the world. Is it physical? No. But it's accepted to refer to it as a sport sometimes. It's not in the Olympics though. Is martial arts a sport? It's widely considered to be now, what with MMA and similar competitions springing up in recent years, but older generations used to just see it as fighting, like training in the military. Taekwondo and Judo are both regulars in the Olympics since the 1950's. Close cousins, boxing and wrestling, are also there but were included years earlier. Is doing push-ups or pull-ups a sport? Not exactly, but weightlifting is. What sport criteria makes this difference? What's the difference between your mile run and the 1600 meter Olympic race? Competition? Maybe.
After looking through the answers, is the original question "Is Starcraft physically demanding enough to be a sport?" enough now? I think it's just a matter of social acceptability now. IMO Starcraft is already within the general range of what could be called a "sport." Not just an e-sport, but an actual sport.
Now, how about asking the question "Can Starcraft players be called athletes?"
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing baseball or basketball requires any sort of mental ability.
See how distorted and ridiculous I can make that sound? How about you try to get over 300 APM and have all 300 or more of those actions mean something? I doubt you can.
The ridiculous thing here is that everyone who says "Starcraft isn't a sport" says it with an absolutely ridiculous tone like they revere the current cultural norm for a sport, like baseball or basketball. What makes those so amazing? You look at lots of sports and you see people playing a recreational hobby that is played by kids all over the world as a hobby they do for fun. The difference is that these "athletes" get paid to do it. Furthermore, people watch them do it (and pay to watch them in many cases). What's the ONLY difference between that and Starcraft? The level of physical and mental activity, which is an inherit difference between ANY two competitive games (YES, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc... these are ALL games). Korea makes the rest of the world look like closed-minded assholes when it comes to this - the country has readily accepted something that isn't as athletically driven and is more mentally driven as one of the most popular things in the country to watch. Seriously list off the main attributes that make any sport a sport and you can say the same for Starcraft - professionals practice hours a day to do it? Check. They make a living doing it exclusively? Check. They compete against other professionals? Check. There's teams/sponsors? Check. People come to events to watch it? Check. There's TV channels dedicated to it EXCLUSIVELY? Check. The ONLY difference is the physical and mental demands. Stuff like basketball, baseball, football, etc... have a far higher physical demand but a far lower mental demand than Starcraft.
Really people, this just shows humanity's ignorance and closed-mindedness that just because Starcraft isn't nearly as physical as something, all of a sudden it's not as good.
It's a sport if you go by the broad dictionary definition of a sport.
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
You talk like there is anything else in the definition that sc doesn't fit in. Obviously he's going to argue about the definition of athletic because that is the only word you can question whether sc requires. Also do you consider curling a sport? Or for the person who uses not being idle as a pre-requisite, archery or weight lifting? I could easily name more.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
You can say the same for many "sports". So, is there anything besides the word athletic in the definition of sport that you dont think can be related to sc? If not you can apologize to him for accusing him of taking words out of context. Thanks.
PS. The picture you posted is a joke. The guy who made it is clever but his first statement should be "Getting girls requires you to have time and money", not "Girls=Time x money". And if you replace the "=" with "requires" and you accept those old sayings to be true, then yes the conclusion is correct.
Stop mixing up people's posts. I said I couldn't believe that people were arguing that playing a video game could require athletic ability, not that it was a prerequisite that a sport had athletic ability. Get your facts straight. We also arguing beyond the word athletic because that was the word in particular he singled out. Stop bringing up irrelevant topics please. So you can apologize to me for taking my words out of context. Thanks.
PS. You also missed the entire point of it. Even he understood what I was trying to say. He just thought I was an ass in the way I did it. You sir, are completely unbelievable.
More straw mans. Yay. How am I mixing up posts? They are all quoted together. When I said sc requires athletic ability, obviously I meant PLAYING sc. How can a SPORT have athletic ability? Lmao. Sorry but you are the one going off topic. Just accept the fact that you wrongfully blamed him for singling out a word and taking it out of context. You thought your girl=time x money pic was relevant? Or pretty much this entire post of yours? Unbelievable? Right back at you.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing baseball or basketball requires any sort of mental ability.
See how distorted and ridiculous I can make that sound? How about you try to get over 300 APM and have all 300 or more of those actions mean something? I doubt you can.
The ridiculous thing here is that everyone who says "Starcraft isn't a sport" says it with an absolutely ridiculous tone like they revere the current cultural norm for a sport, like baseball or basketball. What makes those so amazing? You look at lots of sports and you see people playing a recreational hobby that is played by kids all over the world as a hobby they do for fun. The difference is that these "athletes" get paid to do it. Furthermore, people watch them do it (and pay to watch them in many cases). What's the ONLY difference between that and Starcraft? The level of physical and mental activity, which is an inherit difference between ANY two competitive games (YES, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc... these are ALL games). Korea makes the rest of the world look like closed-minded assholes when it comes to this - the country has readily accepted something that isn't as athletically driven and is more mentally driven as one of the most popular things in the country to watch. Seriously list off the main attributes that make any sport a sport and you can say the same for Starcraft - professionals practice hours a day to do it? Check. They make a living doing it exclusively? Check. They compete against other professionals? Check. There's teams/sponsors? Check. People come to events to watch it? Check. There's TV channels dedicated to it EXCLUSIVELY? Check. The ONLY difference is the physical and mental demands. Stuff like basketball, baseball, football, etc... have a far higher physical demand but a far lower mental demand than Starcraft.
Really people, this just shows humanity's ignorance and closed-mindedness that just because Starcraft isn't nearly as physical as something, all of a sudden it's not as good.
Who in the world was arguing that sports have to have a mental criteria? I'm not trying to downplay Starcraft, I love the game. It's just not a sport. Just like Starcraft is not a religion either. I have no intention of getting over 300 APM or 300 EAPM.
What the fuck is with nearly every single "Starcraft as a sport" person trying to manipulate other people's words. I'd rather side with the people that are saying it isn't a sport without providing any backup than these idiots who are actually twisting shit around.
On September 01 2009 09:48 Heen wrote: Honestly, what the fuck does it matter? Starcraft is starcraft. Which category it belongs to changes nothing.
Exactly.
What the hell are you arguing about semantics? Who cares what it is classified as.
You bastards, you beat me to it.
Though I suppose it's a matter of pride to SC fans who want to get their admiration and fascination across to people who don't 'understand.' Unfortunately though, and I know this from experience, try to enlighten the unwashed masses just make the whole SC thing look stranger to them. I've decided to just leave it at "Yeah, I'm watching two guys play videogames. They're playing for millions of won and some of them date movie stars to the chagrin of thousands of teenage girls."
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing baseball or basketball requires any sort of mental ability.
See how distorted and ridiculous I can make that sound? How about you try to get over 300 APM and have all 300 or more of those actions mean something? I doubt you can.
The ridiculous thing here is that everyone who says "Starcraft isn't a sport" says it with an absolutely ridiculous tone like they revere the current cultural norm for a sport, like baseball or basketball. What makes those so amazing? You look at lots of sports and you see people playing a recreational hobby that is played by kids all over the world as a hobby they do for fun. The difference is that these "athletes" get paid to do it. Furthermore, people watch them do it (and pay to watch them in many cases). What's the ONLY difference between that and Starcraft? The level of physical and mental activity, which is an inherit difference between ANY two competitive games (YES, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc... these are ALL games). Korea makes the rest of the world look like closed-minded assholes when it comes to this - the country has readily accepted something that isn't as athletically driven and is more mentally driven as one of the most popular things in the country to watch. Seriously list off the main attributes that make any sport a sport and you can say the same for Starcraft - professionals practice hours a day to do it? Check. They make a living doing it exclusively? Check. They compete against other professionals? Check. There's teams/sponsors? Check. People come to events to watch it? Check. There's TV channels dedicated to it EXCLUSIVELY? Check. The ONLY difference is the physical and mental demands. Stuff like basketball, baseball, football, etc... have a far higher physical demand but a far lower mental demand than Starcraft.
Really people, this just shows humanity's ignorance and closed-mindedness that just because Starcraft isn't nearly as physical as something, all of a sudden it's not as good.
Who in the world was arguing that sports have to have a mental criteria? I'm not trying to downplay Starcraft, I love the game. It's just not a sport. Just like Starcraft is not a religion either. I have no intention of getting over 300 APM or 300 EAPM.
What the fuck is with nearly every single "Starcraft as a sport" person trying to manipulate other people's words. I'd rather side with the people that are saying it isn't a sport without providing any backup than these idiots who are actually twisting shit around.
Now you're just backpedalling and relying on pure semantics. It's fairly damn reasonable to say that you can, from the OP, gather that he's talking about accepting Starcraft as a legitimate competitive "recreational activity" just as basketball or whatever other "sport" is accepted as in the U.S. or any other country.
in response to the OP's original question, the best way would be to get them to play for themselves
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
1) don't call people kids when most people on tl are older than you 2) you may not consider golf/bowling/whatever to be sports, but all pro golfers train harder and most have better physiques than the guy who plays soccer on his high school team
To answer the OP's question - tell him the facts, that Starcraft is only less popular than soccer in South Korea, that it's just as watched and just as popular as any sport in the U.S. (relatively speaking), that people make a living play it, and that it has 3 TV stations dedicated to it and it alone.
And while I've not made any new Starcraft fans by telling them of it, I've gotten some to actually respect it.
On September 01 2009 09:01 TheSchwA wrote: [quote]
Not a sport here either, champ.
Definition from dictionary.com " an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as basketball, football, wrestling, boxing."
This fails to prove anything. Definition of athletic: of or pertaining to athletes; involving the use of physical skills or capabilities, as strength, agility, or stamina: athletic sports; athletic training. Dexterity is a facet of agility. If you don't think SC requires dexterity you have no place in this forum. Dexterity can also be seen as part of "physical prowess", and SC is most certainly of a "competitive nature."
You'd have to pretty dense to try to consider Starcraft athletic whatsoever.
You're going out on a huge stretch with your logic. First of all agility does not EQUAL dexterity, you're merely saying it is a facet of. Agility in itself, starcraft does not require.
The definition of agility, as used in the definition of athletic
"the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness: exercises demanding agility." It is a friggin' stationary sport.
On September 01 2009 09:33 zazen wrote: There's no set in stone definition of WHAT is a sport, so the main reason I think Starcraft *IS* a sport, is because it has just insane amount of spectator value.
I like chess a lot. Ever seen a chess championship? I did. BORING!
Watching Starcraft is just an extremely enjoyable experience. It's competitive as fuck, requires a lot of skill both physically and mentally. I fail to see, at the level of dedication progamers are, why it should not be considered a sport.
Ok, cool. Dragonball Z was a sport that I enjoyed spectating apparently when I was in middle school.
dex⋅ter⋅i⋅ty /dɛkˈstɛrɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [dek-ster-i-tee] Show IPA Use dexterity in a Sentence See web results for dexterity See images of dexterity –noun 1. skill or adroitness in using the hands or body; agility.
Moving on.. I'd love to refute your other arguments, except you made none and only stated your opinion. Got anything to back it up?
Yet they aren't interchangable. You can't just take a definition and assume because it's used somewhere else it's identical. Agility also has the definition of "the ability to think and draw conclusions quickly; intellectual acuity." It is OBVIOUS from the initial definition of "athleticism" that the use of agility refers to this first definition. If you think it is the second, you are intellectually inept. Simple.
Let's see what you're trying to do to prove the definition incorrect...
You're going from...
Taking the entire definition of sport and bringing out athletic in particular. Now you're taking the word athletic and taking a single word out of that definition, agility. Now you're going further, bypassing the definition of agility used in the sentence itself, aka "the power of moving quickly and easily; nimbleness," to attempt to include the word dexterity, which is a word that particularly relates to a relatively swift movement of the hands, which connotation wise is referred to as more relating to hand-eye coordination (something Starcraft does not require in the same sense of a moving object coming towards you and hitting/catching it). Wow, you made quite the stretch.
I bet you also thought this was true when you read it, as it does the exact same thing you're trying to attempt
You talk like there is anything else in the definition that sc doesn't fit in. Obviously he's going to argue about the definition of athletic because that is the only word you can question whether sc requires. Also do you consider curling a sport? Or for the person who uses not being idle as a pre-requisite, archery or weight lifting? I could easily name more.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
You can say the same for many "sports". So, is there anything besides the word athletic in the definition of sport that you dont think can be related to sc? If not you can apologize to him for accusing him of taking words out of context. Thanks.
PS. The picture you posted is a joke. The guy who made it is clever but his first statement should be "Getting girls requires you to have time and money", not "Girls=Time x money". And if you replace the "=" with "requires" and you accept those old sayings to be true, then yes the conclusion is correct.
Stop mixing up people's posts. I said I couldn't believe that people were arguing that playing a video game could require athletic ability, not that it was a prerequisite that a sport had athletic ability. Get your facts straight. We also arguing beyond the word athletic because that was the word in particular he singled out. Stop bringing up irrelevant topics please. So you can apologize to me for taking my words out of context. Thanks.
PS. You also missed the entire point of it. Even he understood what I was trying to say. He just thought I was an ass in the way I did it. You sir, are completely unbelievable.
More straw mans. Yay. How am I mixing up posts? They are all quoted together. When I said sc requires athletic ability, obviously I meant PLAYING sc. How can a SPORT have athletic ability? Lmao. Sorry but you are the one going off topic. Just accept the fact that you wrongfully blamed him for singling out a word and taking it out of context. You thought your girl=time x money pic was relevant? Or pretty much this entire post of yours? Unbelievable? Right back at you.
You... have... got... to... be... kidding... me... the amount of stupidity coming from you is dumbfounding. I'm borderline willing to apologize to the other guy on the sole basis that he actually tried to form a logical argument with his trivial definition semantics.
A sport can REQUIRE (not "have" moron) athletic ability. What I said was that it is NOT a prerequisite to be a sport. However, people are trying to argue that Starcraft requires athleticism. Thus, logically, that being my argument, your post was completely either offtopic or you mixed up someone's post.
Saying that Starcraft doesn't require athleticism is related to sports how? That was your entire post.
"You can say the same for many "sports". So, is there anything besides the word athletic in the definition of sport that you dont think can be related to sc? If not you can apologize to him for accusing him of taking words out of context. Thanks."
No mention of sport was in my post whatsoever. The rest of your entire post generally consists of "you know you're wrong, admit it," which is completely ignorant.
My entire post was critiquing the fact he decided to single out a word. That's not wrongfully blaming moron. That's critiquing the argument. That's finding a fallacy in the entire foundation of his argument. The girl = time x money pick was relevant, as you still fail to realize, because it was taking completely different definitions of the same words and saying they were equal to each other. It was to show how he was mimicking the same thing, using words interchangeably when I was saying they couldn't be.
As you've so ironically said before, "just accept the fact you're wrong." Bahahaha.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing a video game requires any sort of athletic ability.
It literally blows my mind that people are trying to argue that playing baseball or basketball requires any sort of mental ability.
See how distorted and ridiculous I can make that sound? How about you try to get over 300 APM and have all 300 or more of those actions mean something? I doubt you can.
The ridiculous thing here is that everyone who says "Starcraft isn't a sport" says it with an absolutely ridiculous tone like they revere the current cultural norm for a sport, like baseball or basketball. What makes those so amazing? You look at lots of sports and you see people playing a recreational hobby that is played by kids all over the world as a hobby they do for fun. The difference is that these "athletes" get paid to do it. Furthermore, people watch them do it (and pay to watch them in many cases). What's the ONLY difference between that and Starcraft? The level of physical and mental activity, which is an inherit difference between ANY two competitive games (YES, football, soccer, basketball, hockey, etc... these are ALL games). Korea makes the rest of the world look like closed-minded assholes when it comes to this - the country has readily accepted something that isn't as athletically driven and is more mentally driven as one of the most popular things in the country to watch. Seriously list off the main attributes that make any sport a sport and you can say the same for Starcraft - professionals practice hours a day to do it? Check. They make a living doing it exclusively? Check. They compete against other professionals? Check. There's teams/sponsors? Check. People come to events to watch it? Check. There's TV channels dedicated to it EXCLUSIVELY? Check. The ONLY difference is the physical and mental demands. Stuff like basketball, baseball, football, etc... have a far higher physical demand but a far lower mental demand than Starcraft.
Really people, this just shows humanity's ignorance and closed-mindedness that just because Starcraft isn't nearly as physical as something, all of a sudden it's not as good.
Who in the world was arguing that sports have to have a mental criteria? I'm not trying to downplay Starcraft, I love the game. It's just not a sport. Just like Starcraft is not a religion either. I have no intention of getting over 300 APM or 300 EAPM.
What the fuck is with nearly every single "Starcraft as a sport" person trying to manipulate other people's words. I'd rather side with the people that are saying it isn't a sport without providing any backup than these idiots who are actually twisting shit around.
Now you're just backpedalling and relying on pure semantics. It's fairly damn reasonable to say that you can, from the OP, gather that he's talking about accepting Starcraft as a legitimate competitive "recreational activity" just as basketball or whatever other "sport" is accepted as in the U.S. or any other country.
How is that backpedaling? You just attempted to refute my argument with a "mental" criteria to sports, something that no one has argued thus far. That's like me saying Starcraft shouldn't be a sport because it doesn't involve catching a ball midair. Oh wait, catching a ball midair is in no way a criteria of being a sport, nor even semi-related to being considered a sport.
EDIT: Concerning all the sponsored stuff, you can be sponsored for anything. That isn't relevant in being a sport. Practicing to get better isn't anything either. I've thrown a party sponsored by Rockstar (not by myself, someone else actually got the sponsor). I've practiced many things. Although I have no idea what it's like concerning Starcraft progaming, I've been sponsored before for video games, I've had to practice a shitton to win tournaments to the point I called in sick to school to get enough practice time in, etc. I've won over $5,000 in prizes from competing in video games. None of that shit makes it a sport. As someone else said, are we going to make the spelling bee a sport, now that people practice/are sponsored, etc.? Mental prowess AND it requires "agility" by moving your lips to speak and walking up to the microphone.
On September 01 2009 09:49 TheSchwA wrote: Some of you kids are ridiculously pathetic. Keep trying though, maybe one day you could be considered an athlete because you can sit behind a computer and play a video GAME!
... Probably not though.
Indeed. Nothing like seeing "athletes" walking up and down the greens on a golf course, showing their physical prowess. Or those "athletes" who use their incredible muscles to hit the white ball on the pool table(any variation of the game).
I know I've always wanted a body like this.
I never said golf was a sport, just like a I never said nascar is a sport, or bowling, or pool, or darts, or StarCraft. So shut the fuck up.
Those are sports. You are now saying that Starcraft is not a sport, and that sports aren't sports either.
Those are just as much in the grey area as Starcraft is. It's all semantics, so this really doesn't need to be argued further.
EPT
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