• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:34
CET 14:34
KST 22:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !1Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win1Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread The 2048 Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1574 users

ZvT Imbalance: How to make a successful thread.

Blogs > mahnini
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-06 01:26:25
August 06 2010 01:22 GMT
#1
Hallo everybody! (Hi Dr. Nini!)
I'm here to talk to you today about making threads. Not just any kind of thread, an imbalance thread. Some people think you need weeks or even months of SC2 experience to make a good thread! But folks, I'm here to prove them wrong. Just follow these easy steps and you'll be A-OK!

Step 1: The Title.
As you know by now, ZvT imbalance is a hot topic so be sure to include that in your title (see: title). Don't forget to include a qualifier though so if someone calls your ideas stupid or nonsensical you can respond with "they're just a suggestions!" "well it's my opinion!"

Example:
TvZ imbalance: My Take.

TvZ imbalance: Take 2 (with more effort)

TvZ imbalance: It really is imbalanced IMO. TvZ that is.


Step 2: The Introduction.
The introduction is very important to set the tone for the rest of the post, that's why you should be sure to include your league, rank, and ELO. It's good to include your ELO so people know how many points you have and can make large assumptions about your skill based on the lack of information provided about games played or win ratio. Be sure to list your league and rank as well because something has to fill in the white-space where your replays should be. Also mention you switched to Terran and played 5 TvZs against your similarly ranked friend and won easily.

Example:
Hi! I'm Nini McNeenerton from South Neensville. I'm a 700 ELO rank 8 diamond player from Automaton Butterfly division. ZvT is imbalanced, trust me! I even played like 20 TvZs and won all of them. WOWOWOW!

Step 3: The Imbalance.
This section is the most important. It requires a certain amount of elegance to pull off but I know you can do it! You want to list what you think is causing the ZvT imbalance and make well-known generalizations about them. Be sure to not get to specific though or else you may end up having to argue to point with substantial evidence!

Example:
Reasons why ZvT is imbalanced.
1. Terrans have a lot of openings that are hard to scout.
  • 1 Rax
  • 2 rax
  • Thor Drop
  • Cloaked Banshee
  • Fast Hellion
  • So much more omfg!

Notice that I've done nothing but list Terran openings! Let's continue!

Example:
2. Terran units counter everything Zerg has!
  • Hellions > Zerglings
  • Tanks > Hydralisks
  • Thors > Mutalisks
  • Marauders > Roaches

What overwhelming evidence?! Simply list all the hard counters in the matchup that are favorable to Terran while ignoring Zerg counters to Terran units. Who's going to argue that hard counters don't exist?! Upward and onward!

Example:
3. My nerf suggestions!
  • Lower the range of Vikings
  • Take away Thor splash but give it +2 additional damage to light
  • Increase Reaper cost
  • Make MULEs SCVs that can't autorally and get rid of MULE calldown
  • Decrease Hive cost and build time
  • Increase Ultralisk HP to 900

The most important thing in this section is to maintain no sense of consistency whatsoever. You want to barrage the reader with so many nonsensical nerfs that anyone with half a brain will give up and not respond. Be sure to also include slight buffs with some of your nerfs even though the buffs make no real attempt to balance the terrible nerf at all. Be sure to include nerfs starting from early game units to late game tech buildings that way people know you've at least made it to late game!

Step 4: Conclusion.
In the conclusion, be sure to make an appeal to rationality. Make sure your reader knows that you are being completely objective and that you have considered everything possible even though you have not considered how your changes will affect other matchups. Also, be sure to include a snide remark towards the end about the current atrocity known as ZvT and, if you feel like it, send a quip Blizzard's way.

Example:
I think these changes will balance TvZ, proven by the fact that ladder statistics prove that Terran see a 5% increase in the Top 100. I think if Blizzard would be kind enough to balance their game maybe every Gold league Terran won't be in Diamond with 80% winrates XD.

So guys, I just want you to learn as much as possible and for Terrans to admit that they are actually terrible and only winning because the matchup is hugely imbalanced in their favor. I think it's up to us to initiate change because it's not like Blizzard would do it themselves. XD

***
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
Entropic
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2837 Posts
August 06 2010 01:29 GMT
#2
Are you really a doctor?
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
August 06 2010 01:31 GMT
#3
On August 06 2010 10:29 Entropic wrote:
Are you really a doctor?

indubitably
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 06 2010 01:31 GMT
#4
Of course he's a doctor. See that scary red plexor next to his name?
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-06 01:36:00
August 06 2010 01:31 GMT
#5
Terran is imbalanced (My proposition).

Credentials
- I win games with strong FD and BRFS (at D level)

Why Terran is imbalanced
1. Races that can lift buildings.
- Terran

2. Races that can't lift buildings
- Protoss
- Zerg

Therefore, Terran is imbalanced.

My suggestion
- Allow Nexuses to warp around the map and recall probes.
- Allow Hatcheries, Lairs, and Hives to fly around and have a carry capacity of four ultras.
Entropic
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2837 Posts
August 06 2010 01:32 GMT
#6
Anyways this is a cool thread, I think I'm now well equipped to make a fulfilling and substantiative thread in the strategy forum, thanks doc!
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11554 Posts
August 06 2010 01:35 GMT
#7
i have evidence that mahnini is not a phd
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
mahnini
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
United States6862 Posts
August 06 2010 01:40 GMT
#8
Reasons why mahnini would have a PHD:
  • PHDs are for doctorates
  • You don't have to be a medical doctor to be a PHD
  • Smart people have PHDs
the world's a playground. you know that when you're a kid, but somewhere along the way everyone forgets it.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
August 06 2010 01:43 GMT
#9
On August 06 2010 10:40 mahnini wrote:
Reasons why mahnini would have a PHD:
  • PHDs are for doctorates
  • You don't have to be a medical doctor to be a PHD
  • Smart people have PHDs

Zooey doesn't have a PHD. Are you calling her dumb? How dare you. You should be ashamed of yourself.

On August 06 2010 10:31 koreasilver wrote:
Terran is imbalanced (My proposition).

Credentials
- I win games with strong FD and BRFS (at D level)

Why Terran is imbalanced
1. Races that can lift buildings.
- Terran

2. Races that can't lift buildings
- Protoss
- Zerg

Therefore, Terran is imbalanced.

My suggestion
- Allow Nexuses to warp around the map and recall probes.
- Allow Hatcheries, Lairs, and Hives to fly around and have a carry capacity of four ultras.

Completely airtight logic with no holes tbh.
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4839 Posts
August 06 2010 01:49 GMT
#10
Needs [G] tag.
My strategy is to fork people.
CuteSmallHydra
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada120 Posts
August 06 2010 01:52 GMT
#11
Terran is imbalanced.

My suggestion: switch the size of Thors and SCV's.
aka fOr)Darko
Entropic
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2837 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-06 02:01:16
August 06 2010 02:00 GMT
#12
edit: I tried to pull a baller chart but failed miserably
YoureFired
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States822 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-06 02:06:12
August 06 2010 02:04 GMT
#13
On August 06 2010 10:52 CuteSmallHydra wrote:
Terran is imbalanced.

My suggestion: switch the size of Thors and SCV's.

GIANT SCVs?!?!?

On topic: don't ignore TvP
I am a Pro league 1200 ELO Protoss player and I still get owned by the simplest of Terran builds. IMBALANCE? I think so!

1. Terran has marauders
Terran has tanks
Terran has banshees
2. Marauders>stalkers
Tanks>stalkers
Banshees>stalkers
3. It is obviously imbalances since Protoss cannot win with just stalkers
4. Buff stalkers. Give them marauder slow shells, marauder bonus vs armor, tank splash Nd banshee cloak
:D I'm a pro now!
ted cruz is the zodiac killer
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
August 06 2010 02:06 GMT
#14
I support your view. Zerg was nerfed so many times and terran was buffed so many times, omg, this must mean that blizzard has no idea what they are doing and T is imba! We NEED 1 supply roaches back because we are all sick of making other units!
sLiniss
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States849 Posts
August 06 2010 02:17 GMT
#15
On August 06 2010 10:40 mahnini wrote:
Reasons why mahnini would have a PHD:
  • PHDs are for doctorates
  • You don't have to be a medical doctor to be a PHD
  • Smart people have PHDs


I am a PHD....wut


And 2 supply roaches is still pretty annoying. I've been in too many games that get me to go MutaLing
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
August 06 2010 02:23 GMT
#16
Terran is imbalanced (My proposition).

Credentials
- I win games with the same 2port banshee build (at bronze level)

Why Terran is imbalanced
1. Races that have cliff-jumpers early game.
- Terran

2. Races that don't have cliff-jumpers early-game
- Protoss
- Zerg

Therefore, Terran is imbalanced.

My suggestion
- Give zealots and zerglings spring shoes so that they can jump cliffs.
- Make the reaper's jumping ability have to be researched in techlab

(this is supposed to be a joke sorta...right? o_o)
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
ieatkids5
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States4628 Posts
August 06 2010 02:26 GMT
#17
Yeah man I hear ya. Zerg needs Lurkers back. And Defilers. Can't do shit without them two.
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
August 06 2010 03:09 GMT
#18
Any thoughts on a next project for me?

I like starting trends

Kinda like the sound of "PvZ 2 gate pressure nerf".
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
August 06 2010 03:29 GMT
#19
On August 06 2010 11:23 blahman3344 wrote:
Terran is imbalanced (My proposition).

Credentials
- I win games with the same 2port banshee build (at bronze level)

Why Terran is imbalanced
1. Races that have cliff-jumpers early game.
- Terran

2. Races that don't have cliff-jumpers early-game
- Protoss
- Zerg

Therefore, Terran is imbalanced.

My suggestion
- Give zealots and zerglings spring shoes so that they can jump cliffs.
- Make the reaper's jumping ability have to be researched in techlab



This is gonna become a meme now.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 06 2010 03:32 GMT
#20
I thought this was BW and then I was sad when it wasn't because I have no idea if tvz is imbalanced in SC2 but I would love to rage about how hard ZvT is in BW because fucking irradiate fucking tanks fucking mines bullshit bullshit rararrrg *rips off shirt*
brood war for life, brood war forever
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
12:00
Playoffs
Rogue vs NiceLIVE!
Spirit vs TBD
Scarlett vs Reynor
TBD vs Clem
uThermal vs Shameless
WardiTV960
ComeBackTV 521
TaKeTV 236
Rex135
IndyStarCraft 114
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #115
Ryung vs KrystianerLIVE!
ByuN vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings89
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko277
RotterdaM 143
Rex 128
IndyStarCraft 114
BRAT_OK 88
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3601
Rain 3372
Bisu 1282
Jaedong 766
GuemChi 687
Soma 590
BeSt 397
Hyuk 376
actioN 343
Mini 317
[ Show more ]
Larva 310
Stork 272
EffOrt 242
firebathero 200
Light 162
Rush 148
Hyun 121
hero 111
Snow 102
Sea.KH 69
Killer 63
JYJ 54
Aegong 39
Mind 24
Terrorterran 21
sorry 20
scan(afreeca) 18
Mong 18
yabsab 13
Bale 11
GoRush 10
910 0
Dota 2
qojqva1306
BananaSlamJamma449
420jenkins349
Gorgc305
XcaliburYe175
capcasts56
League of Legends
C9.Mang0343
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1972
x6flipin686
byalli387
allub218
Other Games
B2W.Neo1600
Pyrionflax350
Fuzer 287
Hui .204
hiko97
QueenE61
ArmadaUGS45
Trikslyr29
Chillindude12
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1302
lovetv 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV774
League of Legends
• Jankos2957
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
11h 27m
WardiTV 2025
22h 27m
MaNa vs Gerald
TBD vs MaxPax
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs ShoWTimE
OSC
1d 1h
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
The PondCast
1d 20h
WardiTV 2025
1d 23h
Cure vs Creator
TBD vs Solar
WardiTV 2025
2 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Ladder Legends
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.