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PH
United States6173 Posts
Jaedong vs Bisu ace match. Watch the UI at 6:30...did you guys notice that the spire turns back into a drone? It seems Jaedong accidentally canceled it, which probably lost the game for him. The delayed scourge lost him three overlords, after all. T_T EDIT Oops...if a mod would be so kind, could you edit the title? Hwaseung, not Lecaf...lol.    | ||
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konadora
Singapore66357 Posts
On June 08 2009 09:53 konadora wrote: Totally didn't see that O.O I think JWD explained what JD was trying to do... but I feel it's 'too cute' too =/ | ||
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Piste
6180 Posts
edit: yes i also think it was intentional mistake. not everytime you can play perfect, sometimes you make stupid decisions. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
Jaedong without mutas? impossible | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
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Neighbor
United States119 Posts
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hooktits
United States972 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On June 08 2009 10:24 PH wrote: There couldn't have been a point to canceling it to fool Bisu...he started it up again almost immediately and went for mutas anyway. The delay lost him not three, actually, but FOUR overlords, which I honestly think fucked him over. No he didn't, he cancelled it to go 5 hatch hydra, hence him immediately laying two hatches down immediately after... He didn't build mutas anyways until much later, around standard timing in a 5 hatch hydra build, I'm not sure what you're talking about. | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2593 Posts
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peanutter
Australia165 Posts
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
On June 08 2009 11:03 FabledIntegral wrote: No he didn't, he cancelled it to go 5 hatch hydra, hence him immediately laying two hatches down immediately after... He didn't build mutas anyways until much later, around standard timing in a 5 hatch hydra build, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm not sure you know what YOU'RE talking about, he would've built the 2hatcheries anyways even if he didn't cancel it, the timing of him rebuilding the spire was too fast(he wouldn't cancel spire so he could build 2hatcheries just to rebuild his spire 5seconds later, lol).. this was a mistake by jaedong I'm pretty sure. EDIT: Jeadong is also well known for canceling shit by accident | ||
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
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ForTheSwarm
United States556 Posts
On June 08 2009 10:12 Piste wrote: well, he canceled it to switch from 3hatch muta to 5hatch hydras becouse bisu scouted the spire. edit: yes i also think it was intentional mistake. not everytime you can play perfect, sometimes you make stupid decisions. I don't think JD was going for a 3 hat muta build. I looked to me like he was definitely going for 5 hat hydra the whole time. If I'm not mistaken, that's how they do the 5 hatch hydra build in Korea, 3 hat spire --> 5 hat hydras. I don't think I've ever seen the spire skipped in a 5 hat hydra pro game. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On June 08 2009 10:54 HatchetWound wrote: im a big oz fan and an even bigger jaedong fan but none the less bisu played extreamly well and whether jaedong made a mistake or not he lost the game and at that level thats all it takes 2 lose a game is 1 mistake. i am big supporter of jaedong but lets face it he lost and i hope he wins next time. I never criticized Bisu's play for a second. He played supremely well, I thought...nearly a perfect game that really punished every mistake Jaedong made...like especially that spire cancel. Jaedong played very well too, though. Especially that little trick to delay the DT. I barely caught it, but the commentators were shitting bricks about it. He stopped the larva, making them go to the left of the hatchery, just as the DT was running by them that glitched the DT, hindering its movement for a second preventing a runby. My jaw dropped. On June 08 2009 11:03 FabledIntegral wrote: No he didn't, he cancelled it to go 5 hatch hydra, hence him immediately laying two hatches down immediately after... He didn't build mutas anyways until much later, around standard timing in a 5 hatch hydra build, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Have you ever heard of the three hat spire -> five hat hydra -> delayed muta for HT sniping build order before? It's exactly what Jaedong used. Why in the hell would Jaedong make a spire, let Bisu scout it with a probe he did NOT see come out of his base, cancel it, lay down two hatcheries, then immediately rebuild it only to let the corsair scout it again and consequently lose four overlords? He didn't do anything with the hydras, anyhow. There was no timing for him, and there's no way Jaedong made a mistake in reading the game at that level. Going five hatcheries, pumping around a control group and a half to two control groups of hydras, then pumping mutas and sniping HTs to tilt the first battle into zerg's favor (and make it safe to expo while taking map control) is a STANDARD zerg strategy today. Wejjj even wrote out a very detailed and very good guide about it in strategy section. On June 08 2009 11:56 For_The_Swarm wrote: I don't think JD was going for a 3 hat muta build. I looked to me like he was definitely going for 5 hat hydra the whole time. If I'm not mistaken, that's how they do the 5 hatch hydra build in Korea, 3 hat spire --> 5 hat hydras. I don't think I've ever seen the spire skipped in a 5 hat hydra pro game. The most common build order back when was some kind of 4 or 5 hat hydra that got spire at the same time as den (when lair completes) for scourge to limit sair count. However what's popular today is a version that gets mutas after pumping a number of hydras in order to snipe HTs. On June 08 2009 11:58 ghostWriter wrote: It feels like Jaedong is too good of a player to make a mistake like that. You would have to click the spire then press esc or cancel or something and I know these guys have over 400 apm but they practice for hours a day and it's harder to press esc than it is to press the windows key or enter a enter. Jaedong's made mistakes in the past as well. Notably in Jaedong vs FBH on Neo Harmony, he accidentally built two spires. At first the commentators wondered if he was going for some kind of double upgrade or something, but it obviously wasn't the case, as he never got more mutas and never went greater spire. I vaguely recall other games with such mistakes, though I can't bring them to mind atm. Other ppl here seem to be able to recall them better than I. Even if Jaedong regularly plays at 400APM, I'm sure he pushes himself to get that high. At that speed it's not totally implausible for even a Jaedong to make a dumb mistake. I refuse to believe Jaedong is so bad at SC to think it's worth delaying your spire for a faster hatchery by several (not even ten) seconds. Had he not gotten mutas, then maybe I could believe it was intentional, but he did, anyway. | ||
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ForTheSwarm
United States556 Posts
On June 08 2009 11:58 ghostWriter wrote: It feels like Jaedong is too good of a player to make a mistake like that. You would have to click the spire then press esc or cancel or something and I know these guys have over 400 apm but they practice for hours a day and it's harder to press esc than it is to press the windows key or enter a enter. I don't think it's that implausible to accidentally cancel a spire. Here's an example of what might have happened: JD heads back to his base and decides to check on how his spire is coming, then he notices his overlord is under dragoon fire at Bisu's nat. To move it he hits the overlord's hotkey, likely to be 1 (which is suspiciously near ESC) and accidentally cancels his spire. He moves his overlord and heads back to rebuild his spire. Anything could have happened, but I think that the mistake is easily made. | ||
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Fr33t
United States1128 Posts
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On June 08 2009 11:55 BanZu wrote: I'm curious what his facial expression was when he canceled it. -_- | ||
Sigrun
United States1655 Posts
We know from the GOM showmatches that a single mistake by either player at such a high level play can make the difference between victory and defeat (i.e Bisu's Zealots). | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On June 08 2009 13:33 deathgod6 wrote: I thought he cancelled it, but later thought he didn't because when the observer came back there was a spire. Jaedong did it on purpose to try and surprise Bisu, but his corsairs were going to scout soon anyways so he knew he had to build a spire anyways. So you're saying Jaedong canceled it thinking corsairs wouldn't come, but then realized in the midst of an ace match for a proleague match in the final round that, "oh, wait, it's Bisu...he'd be building sairs anyway..." and decided to rebuild his spire on the spot? Jaedong is not that bad of a player. That's something that would go through the head of a D- player. | ||
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[AhunGrY]MelOn
United States357 Posts
somewhere below in the comments has pretty definitive proof that it was a mistake time until spire health 250: 27 seconds time until spire health 325: 37 seconds time jaedong's spire turns into drone: 6:31, spire health at 252 later observer clicks on spire to be at 325 health at 7:09 going back, jaedong remade the spire at 6:32 conclusion: jaedong remade spire almost immediately after cancel the op of that link is actually a pretty awesome review of the game, i might post a translation of that if im bored enough | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6639 Posts
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
On June 09 2009 08:05 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote: http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=free&wr_id=818707 somewhere below in the comments has pretty definitive proof that it was a mistake time until spire health 250: 27 seconds time until spire health 325: 37 seconds time jaedong's spire turns into drone: 6:31, spire health at 252 later observer clicks on spire to be at 325 health at 7:09 going back, jaedong remade the spire at 6:32 conclusion: jaedong remade spire almost immediately after cancel the op of that link is actually a pretty awesome review of the game, i might post a translation of that if im bored enough Great analysis. He built it right after he canceled -- meaning that there's no way it was intentional (why cancel a spire only to rebuild it immediately afterwards?) EDIT: oh wow, just read that Korean FOMOS article... so in depth... those guys have such a good understanding of the game | ||
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Sigrun
United States1655 Posts
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
hes not from CJ. | ||
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