EPTYou can't complain about that.
I 5 probe rush some guy and he leaves as soon as probe arrives because its uber early. He claimed lag and I didn't get the win. If I let that go then surely you can get over this...
(AND STOP PLAYING RANDOM)
Gahhhhhh Iccup WTF - Page 3
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Reason
United Kingdom2770 Posts
You can't complain about that. I 5 probe rush some guy and he leaves as soon as probe arrives because its uber early. He claimed lag and I didn't get the win. If I let that go then surely you can get over this... (AND STOP PLAYING RANDOM) | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Part of SC is guessing... You don't know if your opponent is proxying, necessarily. If you want to find out you have to scout to check the spots and waste mining time. If you don't know your opponents race and you really want to know, you have to scout early. It's not "just" 50 seconds. This isn't a one time rare occurrence. This shit happens all the time when you play random. I've never bothered to go to admins because, like you can see, they aren't random-friendly players. Most of them probably hate playing against random as much as the guy who wasted your time, and if you were ever so lucky to find the one random playing admin on iCCup, he'd probably get overturned by other admins. If you lose against a random player YOU ARE LOSING BECAUSE YOU ARE THE WORSE PLAYER. Not because they cheated. If you quit because you're afraid to lose to a better player, you shouldn't be playing a competitive game in the first place. Until iCCup makes a rule that says YOU HAVE TO PICK A RACE (which I would respect), they should be defending that you don't have to. This playing both sides is non-sense. | ||
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Kletus
Canada580 Posts
On May 16 2009 00:19 Chef wrote: If you lose against a random player YOU ARE LOSING BECAUSE YOU ARE THE WORSE PLAYER. Not because they cheated. If you quit because you're afraid to lose to a better player, you shouldn't be playing a competitive game in the first place. Ahh but this is a double edged sword. If that player chooses random because he needs the "guessing" or "surprise" element to win, then I would say that player is worse. Otherwise, the player would pick random and then tell the opponent their race? no? | ||
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SkylineSC
United States564 Posts
the person playing random is at a disadvantage to begin with because he has to be good at 9 MUs compared to someone who only have to be good at 3. i mean the fact that the R player puts him in a situation where any of the 9 MUs might be thrown at him is a disadvntage itself. i mean there are different ways to play the game deal with it, i'm sure there are people who only play certain matchups. and pick depending on what the opponent goes.... its ladder climbing, your playing random people. who says someone can't go zergling all-in rush in a zvp every game and not RE, that takes advantage of the fact people don't have pre-game scouting on you and might not be looking for that. | ||
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Gray[FH
152 Posts
but another reason someone might go random is just to keep starcraft spicy by playing with different races  | ||
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ishob
Norway143 Posts
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On May 16 2009 00:19 Chef wrote: Welcome to hell. This is why I stopped playing random. People on iCCup don't know how to play SC. Part of SC is guessing... You don't know if your opponent is proxying, necessarily. If you want to find out you have to scout to check the spots and waste mining time. If you don't know your opponents race and you really want to know, you have to scout early. It's not "just" 50 seconds. This isn't a one time rare occurrence. This shit happens all the time when you play random. I've never bothered to go to admins because, like you can see, they aren't random-friendly players. Most of them probably hate playing against random as much as the guy who wasted your time, and if you were ever so lucky to find the one random playing admin on iCCup, he'd probably get overturned by other admins. If you lose against a random player YOU ARE LOSING BECAUSE YOU ARE THE WORSE PLAYER. Not because they cheated. If you quit because you're afraid to lose to a better player, you shouldn't be playing a competitive game in the first place. Until iCCup makes a rule that says YOU HAVE TO PICK A RACE (which I would respect), they should be defending that you don't have to. This playing both sides is non-sense. If you lose to someone who cheesed you, and they played random so you don't know what cheese is coming, are you the worse player? Scouting is so important in Starcraft, that any knowledge you can get is beneficial to you. If you know what race I'm playing, you know all the standard strategies and cheeses that I might try, but I would have to sacrifice economy and scout because you could be any of the 3 races. That's a huge advantage right there, I don't see how that wouldn't affect the game. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On May 16 2009 01:23 BabyRhino wrote: i don't see how playing random is a "cheap" way to get an advantage. the person playing random is at a disadvantage to begin with because he has to be good at 9 MUs compared to someone who only have to be good at 3. i mean the fact that the R player puts him in a situation where any of the 9 MUs might be thrown at him is a disadvntage itself. i mean there are different ways to play the game deal with it, i'm sure there are people who only play certain matchups. and pick depending on what the opponent goes.... its ladder climbing, your playing random people. who says someone can't go zergling all-in rush in a zvp every game and not RE, that takes advantage of the fact people don't have pre-game scouting on you and might not be looking for that. You are missing the point that i don't have to be as good at zvt as you are at tvz if I random, because I know what matchup I am playing and can prepare my build accordingly, whereas you are left guessing (and presumably will go mech, which may or may not be what you are accustomed to doing in tvz). Your ZvP example is terrible. As the P I know you are Z, as such I should prepare for the possibility that you are going to 5pool me (prior to scouting) or watch out for 3 hatch ling all-in. Whereas if you are random, it makes no fucking sense for me to cannon FE. Hell, I guess I will just 1 gate semitech. Oh wait, that might not always be the best. Also, I don't know what ICCUP rank you are, but 9 MUs is slightly misleading at low levels. I can/have played D+ ZvT just because my TvZ was that rank, because I know what usually works well against me, and when. The timings aren't precise, but it works well enough for low level. Similarly I can/have played ZvP just based on on PvZ (given some practice games, in the neighborhood of 20~30), etc. So on the low level, "9 MUs" is really not hard to achieve. And actually, random will probably be even more of an advantage at higher ICCUP levels (not pro, but high), because there you could still conceivably maintain skill in those matchups, and with more precise knowledge exploit your greater initial knowledge of the matchup (since he does not know your race) with greater effect. You might say that the opponent should just scout you very early since he does not know your race, but in a 4 player map, luck could always screw you. | ||
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inertinept
Bangladesh1195 Posts
I bet all the people that won't play against random also have maphack, NO SURPRISES ALLOWED1211!!!11 | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On May 16 2009 03:45 OreoBoi wrote: If you lose to someone who cheesed you, and they played random so you don't know what cheese is coming, are you the worse player? Scouting is so important in Starcraft, that any knowledge you can get is beneficial to you. If you know what race I'm playing, you know all the standard strategies and cheeses that I might try, but I would have to sacrifice economy and scout because you could be any of the 3 races. That's a huge advantage right there, I don't see how that wouldn't affect the game. Listen. Everyone has to make a choice. You can either play Random and have 1/3rd the practice time per matchup as everyone else, or you can pick a race and deal with a slight mining disadvantage (which actually in most matchups isn't even relevant, since some builds don't diverge for quite awhile (ie: Terran vs Z and P both get one rax rines for a bit... vs another T you may have 2 more marines than normal). I can understand if a league or ladder demands no one be allowed to play Random. That's fine. But if the league allows it, it's not the right of the players within the league to say "no, you're not allowed to play random." You could play random too if you think it's such an advantage. It isn't. The reason people play random isn't because they want an unfair advantage. When you play random, it's much, much more difficult for people to cheese against you. When you play random you get a taste of all matchups. It's not because people think it's truly the best race selection, OR EVERYONE WOULD DO IT. The only thing that people really get pissed off about playing against random is that they're no longer able to blatantly copy progamers. They lose to it, and they claim it's because random is such an imbalanced selection, when really they just never learned to play sc in the first place. IF all you know is a few build orders, YES you will die to random because you suck at StarCraft (and for no other reason). | ||
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
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cujo2k
Canada1044 Posts
On May 16 2009 05:33 Oystein wrote: The obvious solution here is to lie about your race. I mean if you refuse to play vs random then say so before you start the game or ask for race, not start it then when seeing him go random you leave. If people refuse to play vs random they deserve a lie, and always a lie that would work best for you. Hahaha well I'm personally torn about this.. because sometimes I do lie and tell my opponents that I'm doing build orders that I'm not, just to mind fuck them, but somehow that seems more ethical than lying about which race you are. I don't mind playing against random, and I don't know why everyone in this thread says that they don't play random.. Just scout a bit earlier than normal, It''ll be worth it considering that they can't possibly be strong in all 3 matchups. B/B+ random players are usually a lot easier to beat for me than people that play only one race. | ||
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HeavOnEarth
United States7087 Posts
On May 16 2009 05:33 Oystein wrote: The obvious solution here is to lie about your race. I mean if you refuse to play vs random then say so before you start the game or ask for race, not start it then when seeing him go random you leave. If people refuse to play vs random they deserve a lie, and always a lie that would work best for you. the sarcasm was hard rather hard to pick up  | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5520 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
The only time I random is vs friends when we don't care what mu we play, but we tell eachother the race we got because it isn't about fucking peoples builds over in the first few minutes | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
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XinRan
United States530 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On May 16 2009 14:39 XinRan wrote: Now that you've had a day to think about this, do you still think it is worth all the trouble of reading/posting in a 22 page debate, pming mods, and waiting for two word replies just for 100 points? You probably could've won 2 games in that time span. Yeah, I think it was worth it. I'd do it all again, just check my PMs in the afternoon now so I can go outside and scream at the top of my lungs. The blog was just to vent and let out what I could not due to times. | ||
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a-game
Canada5085 Posts
On May 16 2009 03:40 ishob wrote: I hate people who call people picking random a cheap way to get an advantage. Ever thought that maybe some of us only play this game for fun? if your only playing for fun then why is it such a big deal to tell your race? random people seem to take it pretty seriously that they don't want to give away their surprise advantage. On May 16 2009 05:33 Oystein wrote: The obvious solution here is to lie about your race. I mean if you refuse to play vs random then say so before you start the game or ask for race, not start it then when seeing him go random you leave. If people refuse to play vs random they deserve a lie, and always a lie that would work best for you. i hope you're being sarcastic here. if your serious, then i would just mention that a lot of people don't pick their race until the countdown has already started. or, as has already mentioned, there are people that go random because they don't want to pick a race, but freely tell the opponent their race once it's been assigned to them, because they don't care about the surprise advantage. it should be equally up to the random player to announce that he has no intention of telling his race, and once you find yourself in a game against a player who didn't want to be disadvantaged you shouldn't try to lie your way into a free win -_- | ||
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