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This explains why I get bored quicker with D2 than with SC.
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So, a new way of feeling elitist about playing SC over Diablo or WoW?
This seems to be getting a little old.
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On April 24 2009 06:08 CrimsonLotus wrote:
So, a new way of feeling elitist about playing SC over Diablo or WoW?
This seems to be getting a little old.
every d range starcraft player would automatically be a progamer at any other game they played, DUH
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why is there even competition between these games...
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If you've never played wow at a high level, you wouldn't know that the vast majority of wow players suck, and there actually is a high amount of skill involved in being in a top guild or in a top pvp team. The skill is different than starcraft skill in the sense that it requires a high amount of coordination and teamwork, coupled with game know-how.
I would compare playing wow (at a high level) with being an athlete, not a white collar job, since it's like 50% teamwork, 50% skill.
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On April 24 2009 06:31 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 06:08 CrimsonLotus wrote:
So, a new way of feeling elitist about playing SC over Diablo or WoW?
This seems to be getting a little old.
every d range starcraft player would automatically be a progamer at any other game they played, DUH
This is not shittalking, this is pure truth.
Playing SC makes you look like a fucking progamer when playing other shitty games, deal with it, live with it, and shut the fuck up with it.
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On April 24 2009 06:38 funkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 06:31 Rice wrote:On April 24 2009 06:08 CrimsonLotus wrote:
So, a new way of feeling elitist about playing SC over Diablo or WoW?
This seems to be getting a little old.
every d range starcraft player would automatically be a progamer at any other game they played, DUH This is not shittalking, this is pure truth. Playing SC makes you look like a fucking progamer when playing other shitty games, deal with it, live with it, and shut the fuck up with it.
if you think its pure truth that any d- kid will automatically be amazing at any game they play, i hate to say it but, you're retarded.
maybe the good starcraft players will be good at any game they play because they have natural talent and succeed in a game with an extremely high skill ceiling.
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I think we can all agree that SC is a fun time!
On April 24 2009 06:46 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 06:38 funkie wrote:On April 24 2009 06:31 Rice wrote:On April 24 2009 06:08 CrimsonLotus wrote:
So, a new way of feeling elitist about playing SC over Diablo or WoW?
This seems to be getting a little old.
every d range starcraft player would automatically be a progamer at any other game they played, DUH This is not shittalking, this is pure truth. Playing SC makes you look like a fucking progamer when playing other shitty games, deal with it, live with it, and shut the fuck up with it. if you think its pure truth that any d- kid will automatically be amazing at any game they play, i hate to say it but, you're retarded.
you are right, but I think he's trying to say that a solid D rank will do fairly well with other RTS games because the multitude of skills needed to not go 0-100 on iccup will give you some advantage over players who say, play command and conquer competitively.
edit: i'm illiterate 
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This is insanely ignorant. Of course you get better at WoW. The traits you acquire, the attention to detail, the planning and patience, all of these get better with time. Discovering how to beat a new raid boss or whatever takes a lot of skill and coordination.
In PvP, it takes reflexes, fast decision making, mechanics(yes, making sure you optimize all your skills and waste no time between skill runs) and of course, coordination.
Just like in SC, in WoW, which I haven't played in nearly a year now, there is a vast depth of theory and practice that is required to get good at PvP. Raiding is more about group competence, rather than your independent ability, but that should not be diminished either.
This is by no means an advert for Wow. I'm not saying it takes more skill, or as much skill, as Starcraft. I just think most games that have all these years of developed theory, high levels creativity and high skill ceiling, can be compared to trade skills or Art.
This is just your elitist way of trying to convince yourself that your game takes creativity and expression, while everyone who plays WoW or D3 are simply "going to work."
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You'd be surprised how much skill there is to WoW, both in terms of strategy and mechanics. Gear is only half the game, and you can definitely outsmart other players and kill bosses faster with more experience.
Nintu beat me by 2 minutes.
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Nintu is right. BUT what I don't like about WoW PvP is you can outplay your opponent in a match and still lose. PvE wise its not that much about having good teamwork rather that you are lucky that you don't have a retard in your raiding group.
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On April 24 2009 06:49 404.Nintu wrote:
This is insanely ignorant. Of course you get better at WoW. The traits you acquire, the attention to detail, the planning and patience, all of these get better with time. Discovering how to beat a new raid boss or whatever takes a lot of skill and coordination.
In PvP, it takes reflexes, fast decision making, mechanics(yes, making sure you optimize all your skills and waste no time between skill runs) and of course, coordination.
Just like in SC, in WoW, which I haven't played in nearly a year now, there is a vast depth of theory and practice that is required to get good at PvP. Raiding is more about group competence, rather than your independent ability, but that should not be diminished either.
This is by no means an advert for Wow. I'm not saying it takes more skill, or as much skill, as Starcraft. I just think most games that have all these years of developed theory, high levels creativity and high skill ceiling, can be compared to trade skills or Art.
This is just your elitist way of trying to convince yourself that your game takes creativity and expression, while everyone who plays WoW or D3 are simply "going to work."
Actually this is quite untrue, after a certain point in WoW, you don't gain much at all, and this point is reach very VERY quickly. In my case I got tired of raiding with my hunter, so I made a paladin, hit 80 on jan 1, and am probably the best prot paladin and one of the best if not best holy paladins on the server. Case in point: found out from RL friend who still plays WoW on US-Malfurion server that earlier in the week Devierum (was top 250 world before Ulduar, somewhere around ~220 if I recall correctly, dunno where they are now) was looking for me to heal Iron Council hard mode because apparently that fight does such apeshit raid damage that they wanted another healer in addition to what they usually have. Also apparently they were looking for me to go be their paladin tank.. good thing I quit before getting addicted to the game. (PvP is slightly more difficult, but not really. If your partner isn't bad and can learn then getting gladiator is no problem...)
And as for group competence, that is just bullshit. SO many people are just failures, there is no other way to put it.
In conclusion, I'd say that the summary of "playing WoW is like going to work" is pretty accurate. Fights take no more than a few tries to learn. The main dependencies are the gear level required and the idiocy of the people you are playing with, not your own skill.
+ Show Spoiler +Apparently they were absolutely sure of getting world first kill on Iron Council hard mode if I had been on to heal and not quit the game Oh well. SC is so much better.
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On April 24 2009 06:55 Shivaz wrote:
Nintu is right. BUT what I don't like about WoW PvP is you can outplay your opponent in a match and still lose. PvE wise its not that much about having good teamwork rather that you are lucky that you don't have a retard in your raiding group.
Maybe you have a bad 2s,3s, or 5s group composition. That shit is so insanely important it's not even funny.
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I played 2s as a Hunter during season2/3 when us(Hunters) were having lots of issues with LoS in arena don't know how it is now. I was 1900 ratings with my druid friend partner before I quit WoW because of boredom. I honestly believe we could have reached 2000-2100. What I mean by outplaying our opponents is for example. Back when I played Hunter/Druid is based around draining and outlasting the other team, so the match sometimes would be going great their healer is almost out of mana. Then my friend gets crit by the their warrior 2-3 times in a row and dies just like that, or some other unlucky chain of procs that just really didn't depend on any skill at all.
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oh hahahaha <3 gay chains of procs
would be so much better if crits were also timer based off of % like other hidden cooldowns and % chances, such as seal of command eh?
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On April 24 2009 06:08 CrimsonLotus wrote:
So, a new way of feeling elitist about playing SC over Diablo or WoW?
This seems to be getting a little old.
this
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On April 24 2009 07:20 Retsukage wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 06:08 CrimsonLotus wrote:
So, a new way of feeling elitist about playing SC over Diablo or WoW?
This seems to be getting a little old.
this
I dunno about Diablo since I was never hardcore in that, but I'll second the SC>WoW statement =)
In terms of difficulty and skill required that is. WoW can be pretty fun if you raid / arena with good people.
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every time a world of warcraft discussions starts up I'm totally confused
this must be how my friends feel when the SC players of the group talk about SC
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United States47024 Posts
On April 24 2009 06:49 404.Nintu wrote:
Just like in SC, in WoW, which I haven't played in nearly a year now, there is a vast depth of theory and practice that is required to get good at PvP. Raiding is more about group competence, rather than your independent ability, but that should not be diminished either.
Depth of theory? You're joking, right?
At high-level 2v2, more than half your matches are going to be in one matchup. Your 3v3s are going to be split between two matchups more than half the time. Tactically, there is variation in how matches play out, but strategy is almost nonexistent, as your strategic goal in any situation will always be the same. There are less skills useful to any given class than units in Starcraft, not to mention the fact that you use them one at a time. A very small number of your item slots will vary once you've earned the season's PvP rewards. The number of permutations of abilities and small number of different scenarios you have to face PRECLUDES the theory of WoW PvP from developing into anything close to the depth encountered in Starcraft. Yes it requires some skill and tactics, but its orders of magnitude less than Starcraft.
This is not to say WoW is a bad game. On the contrary, its the most successful MMO out there, and even if its less interesting than Starcraft (despite how subjective that is), its still the best in a genre that doesn't produce interesting games all that often. That in and of itself should be applause-worthy.
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Katowice25012 Posts
I've read a lot of anthropology papers where people make these kinds of comparisons with sports in a country vs the kinds of workers who like and popularize them. You should get this shit published.
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On April 24 2009 07:16 EtherealDeath wrote:
oh hahahaha <3 gay chains of procs
would be so much better if crits were also timer based off of % like other hidden cooldowns and % chances, such as seal of command eh?
Well it feels amazing when I crit their healer back in the next match and basically down their healer in the time of them getting freeze trapped, they trinket and I scatter shot them. (On a side note, due to all these WoW discussions I looked up some stuff, and I saw there is no dead zone for Hunters now, haha can't imagine how much easier it is for Hunters to PvP in arena now)
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United States47024 Posts
On April 24 2009 07:29 Shivaz wrote:
Well it feels amazing when I crit their healer back in the next match and basically down their healer in the time of them getting freeze trapped, they trinket and I scatter shot them. (On a side note, due to all these WoW discussions I looked up some stuff, and I saw there is no dead zone for Hunters now, haha can't imagine how much easier it is for Hunters to PvP in arena now)
I'm guessing this is one of the major reasons why Hunter went from being the most underplayed class in arenas in TBC, to being 3rd most used in WotLK. Its only behind DK and Paladin, which are pretty easy to call overpowered, given their ubiquitous dominance across 2s, 3s, and 5s.
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I remember when there was only 2 Hunters in top 100 2v2 teams (Warlock and Warrior taking up like 70% of that) lol..... I imagine there quite possibly be alot more now.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 24 2009 07:38 Shivaz wrote:
I remember when there was only 2 Hunters in top 100 2v2 teams (Warlock and Warrior taking up like 70% of that) lol..... I imagine there quite possibly be alot more now.
Most of those Warriors and Warlocks were paired with Druids rofl.
And I'm pretty sure there still aren't that many Hunters in 2s, because DK/Pala is dominating just as hard as Druid/Warrior, Druid/Warlock, and Druid/Rogue did in TBC. They get used a lot in 3s and 5s though I think.
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Hunters were/will always be good to have in 5s 
edit: and you are right about being underplayed in Arenas, I remember a statistic when I played Hunters were most played class in the game at 17% out of all the classes, and is the least played class in arena at 7-9% I think.
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On April 24 2009 07:42 Shivaz wrote:Hunters were/will always be good to have in 5s edit: and you are right about being underplayed in Arenas, I remember a statistic when I played Hunters were most played class in the game at 17% out of all the classes, and is the least played class in arena at 7-9% I think.
That's because..... *drumroll*
+ Show Spoiler +Most hunters are hunTARDS
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While I like your general idea. You quickly display your ignorance to how games get big. Games don't get big because they are easy and people like to waste time. Think about it, Starcraft requires masses of time, but you continue to strive to become that much better. In WoW people don't play so they waste time. Sure you may not see HUGE differences in leveling and such. But you sure can tell a top notch PvP player from a novice, or even a good player for that matter.
In no way am I insinuating WoW takes more skill than SC. But what I am saying is that the PvP scene is a combination of teamwork and skill. PvP and Raiding is what keeps WoW going.
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United States43617 Posts
I've never spoken to any WoW player who wasn't the best on their server. You guys need some icc equivalent, atm you're all like "best Terran on East".
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Being good at WoW is like being the best Terran on East, atleast the same bragging power equivalent.
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On April 24 2009 07:59 Kwark wrote:
I've never spoken to any WoW player who wasn't the best on their server. You guys need some icc equivalent, atm you're all like "best Terran on East".
There are global guild rankings, and for classes like tanks at least, there is a rough "if you are in the top 200 guild worldwide, you are probably good enough tank for any other guild below that rank", since if you can't tank, then your guild's not going to get anywhere, and thus you would have been replaced by then. For dps and such there are no such rankings, mostly because if you are half competent and your gear is good, your dps is probably as good as the dps in the best guilds. The dps rotations are painfully simple.
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On April 24 2009 08:12 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 07:59 Kwark wrote:
I've never spoken to any WoW player who wasn't the best on their server. You guys need some icc equivalent, atm you're all like "best Terran on East". There are global guild rankings, and for classes like tanks at least, there is a rough "if you are in the top 200 guild worldwide, you are probably good enough tank for any other guild below that rank", since if you can't tank, then your guild's not going to get anywhere, and thus you would have been replaced by then. For dps and such there are no such rankings, mostly because if you are half competent and your gear is good, your dps is probably as good as the dps in the best guilds. The dps rotations are painfully simple.
I think healers can be ranked as well because they're hugely about mana efficiency. I've seen retards with T7.5 gear and ilvl 213 gear overhealing to no end and then there's the guy who you never actually see casting a healing spell but somehow keeping you up. ;p
BTW, how are tanks ranked anyway? If you have a brain you can hold threat as well as the next guy as long as you have equivalent gear.
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There was no one thinking about mana when healing in Lich King. As a priest, I gave up on stacking spirit and went for pure crit. With iLevel 200, I had over 30% crit with talents. It was insane. I'd just go circle of healing, get instant flash heal for free and then repeat. Only Malygos and Sapphiron with 2 healers needed you to preserve mana, even in heroic. I quit WoW a few months ago. Ulduar might have me coming back for another run, but I doubt it.
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On April 24 2009 08:20 Equinox_kr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2009 08:12 EtherealDeath wrote:On April 24 2009 07:59 Kwark wrote:
I've never spoken to any WoW player who wasn't the best on their server. You guys need some icc equivalent, atm you're all like "best Terran on East". There are global guild rankings, and for classes like tanks at least, there is a rough "if you are in the top 200 guild worldwide, you are probably good enough tank for any other guild below that rank", since if you can't tank, then your guild's not going to get anywhere, and thus you would have been replaced by then. For dps and such there are no such rankings, mostly because if you are half competent and your gear is good, your dps is probably as good as the dps in the best guilds. The dps rotations are painfully simple. I think healers can be ranked as well because they're hugely about mana efficiency. I've seen retards with T7.5 gear and ilvl 213 gear overhealing to no end and then there's the guy who you never actually see casting a healing spell but somehow keeping you up. ;p BTW, how are tanks ranked anyway? If you have a brain you can hold threat as well as the next guy as long as you have equivalent gear.
Tanks don't just sit there holding aggro. Take for instance back in vanilla WoW, there was a boss in BWL with 52 adds or something like that =)
Most of the time tanks have to pick stuff that is spawning, and run around depending on the mechanics of the boss, which though is simple enough, is apparently impossible for most tanks. Pretty much any tank can hold aggro in Wotlk (wasn't quite the case pre-Wrath, aggro holding could be a bitch; look at warlocks in bc >.<).
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My 3v3 team was ranked #4 at the end of season 1, #2 at best.
There was very little theory and crap involved in it, the 3 of us had played our characters for a long time, and just did stuff.
You get a feel for what you should do in every scenario to get the best out of the situation, and how to deal with stuff..you can say its a lot of theory involved, but its more like acting on instinct.
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United States3824 Posts
Apparently I stuck a nerve.
And how could I be ignorant having played all of these games at a high level (assuming D on SC is still high level )
I'm just speaking from personal experience. If you need to rationalize the time you spend play WoW by lashing out at me by all means.
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On April 24 2009 11:15 cgrinker wrote:Apparently I stuck a nerve. And how could I be ignorant having played all of these games at a high level (assuming D on SC is still high level ) I'm just speaking from personal experience. If you need to rationalize the time you spend play WoW by lashing out at me by all means.
I don't play Wow. =p
And I do think you're ignorant to make a claim like that. =)
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You know, it never ceases to amaze me just how unique of a fanbase Blizzard has. They are probably the only company in the world where some fans of one franchise are so die-hard that they hate, if not completely despise, other franchises and their fans. It is such a unique phenomenon.
However, I agree that it is getting VERY old. It seems like some people really want to feel superior for their preferred choice over other fans.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
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EPT
