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Survey - Page 2

Blogs > EtherealDeath
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EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
April 20 2009 05:34 GMT
#21
On April 20 2009 14:14 micronesia wrote:
For those who already are done:

+ Show Spoiler +

The difference between survey one or two is the presentation of the question. I randomly chose question 2, and after reading it I chose to ignore the second sentence under the pretense that it could not affect the correct answer, yet could serve to confuse me.

The variable between Q1 and Q2 is whether or not you give the example, but I think it's going to create some confounding variables. I'll be interested to hear your rationale later.



+ Show Spoiler +
From some previous surveys, it seems that while people are generally good with reasoning via modus ponens, there is a larger tendency to fail when applying modus tollens, especially when the question involved some real life situation which people may have created a model for. In this case it seems likely that people associate not only smiling with being happy, but also other signs as well, so despite reading the given information and working based on that, they fall back upon the previously mentioned mental associations which make up their mental representation. That is, reason is not their first choice of thinking method, but rather whatever mental representations/associations are most relevant to the question at hand. Thus they would answer that yes, it is possible, whereas the answer is clearly no by a logical examination of the question. Moreover, if this were true, one could expect a larger percentage of people to say yes in the 2nd version which has more stuff in it, since it includes a possible mental association, which may cause people to go with their familiar mental associations rather than view it logically, despite the clear logical format of the original statement. Of course, to see whether or not the change is directly related to mental representations being used is not only dependent on the percentage of yes/no answers, but also upon the question itself; how large would the change be if the question specified were not something with a strong pre-existing mental representation, but something more abstract, like some abstract mathematical statement which nevertheless uses a simple modus tollens form, but has what sounds plausible (yet must be diregarded as having been excluded by the original if-then statement itself).

tl;dr: I'm wondering if people really have a bad sense of logic, and in this and future surveys (the results of which I will post after they are done), I want to see how much heuristics are being used.
Shivaz
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1783 Posts
April 20 2009 05:42 GMT
#22
+ Show Spoiler +
I guess I am an Idiot LOL, wasn't thinking correctly/logically at the time I answered yes to the first question
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
April 20 2009 05:50 GMT
#23
On April 20 2009 14:23 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2009 14:19 Shivaz wrote:
On April 20 2009 14:15 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
i'm too logical for this trickery

(i started with #2, spent a long time thinking about it, answered no, then looked at #1 which made me feel good about myself)


+ Show Spoiler +
I don't understand you, I am quiet certain there is no correct answer rather the purpose is to show different types of thinking.


+ Show Spoiler +
there certainly is a logical answer

statement: if happy, then smile

is it possible to not smile if happy?

no, not logically. the second one provides some sort of crappy justification as to why it might be possible to not smile, but that doesnt counteract the absolute edict of the first statement

+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, but your absolute mathematical way of approaching this problem and view of the premises as "absolute edicts" and not pondering the very real possibility that the two scenarios could exist for question 2 could be what the surveyer is truly testing. Whether there are more philosophical or mathematical people; or something like that.
Jaedong
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
April 20 2009 05:52 GMT
#24
On April 20 2009 14:42 Shivaz wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I guess I am an Idiot LOL, wasn't thinking correctly/logically at the time I answered yes to the first question


+ Show Spoiler +
actually a lot of people don't think logically, which is rather interesting. It's as if the mind were using some sort of relational representation instead, which includes some of the logical relationships but not all of them.
Shivaz
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1783 Posts
April 20 2009 05:57 GMT
#25
On April 20 2009 14:52 EtherealDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2009 14:42 Shivaz wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I guess I am an Idiot LOL, wasn't thinking correctly/logically at the time I answered yes to the first question


+ Show Spoiler +
actually a lot of people don't think logically, which is rather interesting. It's as if the mind were using some sort of relational representation instead, which includes some of the logical relationships but not all of them.


+ Show Spoiler +
I am actually a very logical and mathematical person myself (Enjoying first year Engineering in uni atm), I really think I was blanked out when I was reading the question.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24805 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-20 06:08:53
April 20 2009 06:07 GMT
#26
The spoilers are getting dumb at this point lol.

If you have not done the poll yet and are going to, don't read this post XD

On April 20 2009 14:52 EtherealDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2009 14:42 Shivaz wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I guess I am an Idiot LOL, wasn't thinking correctly/logically at the time I answered yes to the first question


+ Show Spoiler +
actually a lot of people don't think logically, which is rather interesting. It's as if the mind were using some sort of relational representation instead, which includes some of the logical relationships but not all of them.

My understanding of how the brain works/learns is entirely based on relationships and connections rather than rules.

Even if you attempt to use logic to answer a question, there are still several steps where you can make a mistake and end up with the wrong answer. If you use your experience from facing similar situations in the past, it's conceivable to arrive at the correct answer without thinking in a purely 'logical' manner.

The only reason why that question was 'easy' for me was because if two factors:

1) I recall the mathematical rules behind solving that type of a problem
2) I realized that the second sentence in question two was an attempt to make me choose between logic and relationship analysis, and made a conscious decision to strictly use logic. Had the cues been different, I likely wouldn't have made that conscious decision.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
lesser_good
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
Canada698 Posts
April 20 2009 06:37 GMT
#27
I like Dream Theater
pew pew
KarlSberg~
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
731 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-20 08:50:53
April 20 2009 08:45 GMT
#28
TL is full of science majors, computer analysts, and generally smart/logic people, so I expect very few wrong answers.
+ Show Spoiler +
I answered question 1 so I had it easier. Then I read question 2, obviously saw the trick since I had read question 1 before, but I'm sure I wouldn't have fallen for it anyway.


What I'd like to know is how many people will pick question 1 and how many will pick question 2.
There are 01 kind of people who know binary. Those who understand little endian and those who don t.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-04-20 09:08:44
April 20 2009 09:08 GMT
#29
On April 20 2009 17:45 KarlSberg~ wrote:
TL is full of science majors, computer analysts, and generally smart/logic people, so I expect very few wrong answers.
+ Show Spoiler +
I answered question 1 so I had it easier. Then I read question 2, obviously saw the trick since I had read question 1 before, but I'm sure I wouldn't have fallen for it anyway.


What I'd like to know is how many people will pick question 1 and how many will pick question 2.


Oho you'd be surprised. Hit the spoiler if you want to see what the current supply of wrong is.

+ Show Spoiler +
For #1, 36 out of 73 wrong. For #2, 17 out of 34 wrong.
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