EPTBut then again, I really don't know enough about religion to form any concrete ideas about it.
Why won't God heal amputees - Page 9
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
But then again, I really don't know enough about religion to form any concrete ideas about it. | ||
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ieatkids5
United States4628 Posts
On March 20 2009 12:01 TheAntZ wrote: In answer to the original post: I myself am an atheist, and I haven't really researched much about religion. However, I think that if God does exist, there's three ways of looking at it. In the first, you can assume that God is omnipotent and omniscient, thus if people ever became amputees, it was all part of God's plan, thus it wouldn't make sense for Him to heal them. Alternatively, you can assume that God's influence on the universe and everything that happens to it is not as strong as most people believe. In this case, God may or may not know of the suffering of amputees but cannot in either case affect it in any way. Or, perhaps the case is that God does know all and see all, and is able to manipulate anything in existence to His liking, but does not wish to intervene in earthly events in a visible way, choosing instead to cause things to happen in the manner He wishes by using subtlety and a 'Light touch'. But then again, I really don't know enough about religion to form any concrete ideas about it. The OP was referring to the Christian god, not the god that deists believe in. | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + lol a fucking pillar of salt, the Bible is comedic genius | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8072 Posts
I start to understand why US are so fucked up theses days... if you guys are gonna vote in a couple of years, I don't see how it will improve. On March 19 2009 18:10 IdrA wrote: well its not really the problem of evil and the normal responses to the problem of evil cant address it because of the claims that miracles cure other diseases like cancer and stuff, either god hates amputees or the other medical 'miracles' arent really miracles. Playing Starcraft is good. Now, go open a book once in your life. Not the Bible. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
better not to talk down to americans when you post nothing but mindless drivel yourself. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8072 Posts
On March 21 2009 01:33 IdrA wrote: excellent argument there better not to talk down to americans when you post nothing but mindless drivel yourself. I don't talk down of americans, I talk down of you, and all the guys who are uneducated enough not to understand why this discussion is more than retarded. Honestly, it blows my mind. When I see that most of them come from US, I get a little bit (more) worried about the future of this country. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
"I AM THE BOSS OF THE INTERNET, ALL OF YOUR INTERNET DEBATE SEEMS CHILDISH BEFORE MY ABSOLUTELY IRREVOCABLE 13 YO LOGIC AND/OR FAITH >:[" | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8072 Posts
On March 21 2009 02:21 TheAntZ wrote: It really does tickle me pink seeing people act superior and tough on the internet. "I AM THE BOSS OF THE INTERNET, ALL OF YOUR INTERNET DEBATE SEEMS CHILDISH BEFORE MY ABSOLUTELY IRREVOCABLE 13 YO LOGIC AND/OR FAITH >:[" Sigh. Whatever... | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
Religion thread -> atheists called religion stupid /profanity involved -> quotes of Dawkin's books -> Idra and Mindcrime make their obligatory religious thread posts to increase their post count -> profanity from atheists -> 20 more pages of irrelevant discussions -> thread closed. Note: I should also say that Idra has a massive boner throughout this process. Maybe because he think he's better than people who are religious and makes extremely condescending posts towards them or their "improbable" beliefs, or just because he's getting all the attention he didn't get when looking for a training partner on the CJ Entus headquarters. | ||
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Chromyne
Canada561 Posts
On March 21 2009 02:39 ilj.psa wrote: i see nothing good about this religion debates , no one changes its original stance anyways. Religion thread -> atheists called religion stupid /profanity involved -> quotes of Dawkin's books -> Idra and Mindcrime make their obligatory religious thread posts to increase their post count -> profanity from atheists -> 20 more pages of irrelevant discussions -> thread closed. That's true for the most part. However, while many posts are made for the sole sake of bashing religion (some of which attack organized religion, which I agree is a very dangerous thing). Naturally, debate is not to convince or convert the 'opposing' side (that usually never happens). It's to introduce ideas, or get points across, bring clarity for all those involved with the discussion. At least, that's how I see it in these kinds of debates. But you're probably right. | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
The OP question is aimed at people who had read the bible debating wether he exists or not is irrelevant in this thread. Even non-believers could answer the question or anyone of that matter who had read the bible to give an appropiate response, doesn't matter if you actually believe in God or not. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
if, as you say, no one is going to question their beliefs as a result of it then nothing is really going to come of it... which means its not hurting anything, and some of us simply enjoy arguing about it. whats wrong with that? and if you're wrong, or contradicting yourself, and it can have an effect on people's beliefs, well then obviously the discussion isnt futile. Religion thread -> atheists called religion stupid /profanity involved -> quotes of Dawkin's books -> Idra and Mindcrime make their obligatory religious thread posts to increase their post count -> profanity from atheists -> 20 more pages of irrelevant discussions -> thread closed. the vast majority of my posts are in reply to people who disagreed with me or who i disagreed with. how exactly is that a circle jerk? i find it hilarious you say im being condescending and then try to psychoanalyze me. | ||
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BackHo
New Zealand400 Posts
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BackHo
New Zealand400 Posts
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SwaY-
Dominican Republic463 Posts
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On March 21 2009 09:28 IdrA wrote: whats the point in attacking the discussion itself? if, as you say, no one is going to question their beliefs as a result of it then nothing is really going to come of it... which means its not hurting anything, and some of us simply enjoy arguing about it. whats wrong with that? and if you're wrong, or contradicting yourself, and it can have an effect on people's beliefs, well then obviously the discussion isnt futile. It IS futile because when you use profanity, condescending comments and deliberately trying to ridiculize people's beliefs is going to bring a reaction out of people, this can be applied to any topic in the world, and thats what this kinds ends up usually. Did I say its wrong to question someone elses or themselves beliefs? No In this case, debating wether God is real or not is irrelevant , since this is not the question or purpose of discussion of the thread itself is not to discuss God's existance, that would be in fact "off-topic". the vast majority of my posts are in reply to people who disagreed with me or who i disagreed with. how exactly is that a circle jerk? i find it hilarious you say im being condescending and then try to psychoanalyze me. what? its a circle jerk because it involves what stated above and usually thats how it ends, go use the search function dunno why i keep bumping this -_- , k im out | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On March 21 2009 12:32 ilj.psa wrote: it cant be applied to any other topic because any other topic could respond to ridicule by defending itself. religion cant because it has no reasonable basis to argue from. It IS futile because when you use profanity, condescending comments and deliberately trying to ridiculize people's beliefs is going to bring a reaction out of people, this can be applied to any topic in the world, and thats what this kinds ends up usually. Did I say its wrong to question someone elses or themselves beliefs? No In this case, debating wether God is real or not is irrelevant , since this is not the question or purpose of discussion of the thread itself is not to discuss God's existance, that would be in fact "off-topic". what? its a circle jerk because it involves what stated above and usually thats how it ends, go use the search function dunno why i keep bumping this -_- , k im out almost all of my posts have been replies to people who disagree with me or who i disagree with. if it was 1 person going god sucks and a 2nd person going i agree god sucks and a 3rd going me too fuck god, then yes. as is no. sure some people are just posting funny images, that doesnt invalidate everyone else's posts. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
If God does not exist, why would it be wrong for me to murder someone or rape? Would anything be "wrong"? Animals kill eachother, even of the same species (I'm not talking about for food). Animals rape eachother (does anyone here own chickens? I did growing up so I know). We don't consider it wrong for them. Why would it be wrong for a man to go to his neighbors house and kill the family and rape the women? If it makes him happy and there is no God, is it wrong to do what makes him happy? (if you say this is a stupid question but think the article quoted is smart, then I don't even want to debate you because you are an idiot. This is at least as valid a question as he brought up). EDIT: I did read the whole article so no whining on that point. | ||
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Savio
United States1850 Posts
1. One of the first things I thought was that Jesus did restore an amputated ear in the Bible (didn't read all 9 pages of responses so I don't know if this was already brought up but I thought it was at least funny since he was always like "duuuude, no amputee has EVER gotten their body part back', like every 2 sentences). 2. Everybody who has ever lost a limb HAS or at least will get it back (I don't know all the timelines perfectly, but "not a hair of the head shall be lost" when we are all eventually resurrected). 3. Most of the internet emails you get and that rabies case probably weren't direct interventions from God (maybe some were, I can't really know, but I THINK that most aren't). I think that for the most part, God sends us to an imperfect world where bad things happen by chance or choice and he intervenes in some cases for a bunch of different reasons but its definitely not with the intent of creating a great mass email. When he doesn't intervene its not because he doesn't love us, but because leaving him to come here is like leaving home and going to college. It wouldn't make sense for a loving parent to do all your studying and take all your tests for you so you can get a diploma. That is not actually helping you. Letting you mess up and get hurt and experience pain (all of which we couldn't do if we still lived with him) DOES help us become more capable and knowledgeable. 4. We lived with God before being born (you are getting my beliefs now), and we have existed in one sense or another forever and we will exist after this for forever. What happens during a short little 70 years (in terms of physical pain suffered by us) is less important from an eternal perpective than the fact that I had an itch on my arm on May 15, 1992 for half a second. God does not think from our "little ant" perspective. Life now is not fair, but that doesn't matter cause its over as soon as it starts. And eternity is not fair, it is WAY too generous to ALL of us (even amputees). 5. God judges us based on our knowledge. I (unlike many Christian faiths) do not believe that those who never really learn the Gospel are damned. They have as good a chance at salvation as I do because I am judged according to my knowledge and they on theirs (if they are decent people even without knowledge of the gospel, they are in good shape). Now suppose someone is living not exactly a saintly life, but on the other hand, God has never PROVEN to them that he exists. They are in decent shape. But what if their friend lost a limb, they prayed that it would grow back and it did....then what? What if they are not capable/willing to change their life? They are now judged at the same level of knowledge as a prophet but are not living a "prophet-like" life? God does not want to damn his children. That is why he gives more proof to those who are living the life of a prophet, and that is why it says you must have faith FIRST (most people WAY overestimate how much faith they have. Saying you believe does not cut it). I think that when God made all the statements of prayers of faith being answered and able to move mountains, he was talking about an end-outcome, not an initial step in building faith. 6. The parable of the mustard seed was interpreted wrong in the OP. The parable states that mustard seeds are the least of seeds but grow into the mightiest of plants (apparently they get big). It is meant to show the growth potential of faith from something you can barely see to something huge and powerful and THEN you can move mountains. It does NOT mean that you can work great miracles with just a little bit of faith. But if your faith is like a grain of sand (no growth potential) then you will never be moving mountains. 7. If you do a prayer "experiment" meaning "lets see if God answers this prayer", that is by definition a prayer without faith. If there is any experiment to it the prayer is without faith. If someone (very few people ever attain this in this life) honestly KNOWS exactly what will happen and does not have a shadow of doubt in his mind, that is what God wants and he shows great miracles to these people. We call them prophets. There were some others but it is already a longer post than I was planning on making. | ||
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