brag post - Page 3

On March 19 2009 11:21 ramen247 wrote:



im not whining...its true. if i have 50 bunkers in my base yuou can just put up swamr and even 5 lings will rape them...

On March 19 2009 11:15 IdrA wrote:
why are you a dick if you dont respect someone?
if ptak 3 hat ling allins me and i dont happen to be watching my natural the moment the lings come in, what about that should earn my respect? you do not deserve someones respect, you earn it, and if you are incapable of earning it it is not the fault of the other person.

On March 19 2009 11:42 StRyKeR wrote:

it's true, zerg would be fucked without dark swarm, and dark swarm is overly powerful in many situations, but that's how the game is. unless there's ACTUAL imbalance zerg vs terran, I wouldn't be complaining -- it's just an aspect of the game you have to deal with (if you want proof that if anything, terran > zerg, just look at people in Korea playing 24-7 trying to optimize the matchup and still finding terrans raping zergs left and right)

On March 19 2009 11:46 IdrA wrote:
actually i think its more of the fact that its very hard to reach the highest levels of zvt than that terran is inherently >z. there have almost always been a couple of very very high level zergs who can compete with the top terrans just fine... but then all the rest kinda blow. yellow,july,gorush,savior,jaedong and a few others who had brief moments of glory all seemed to deal with it quite well in their primes. the 2nd tier zergs come to mind much less readily, cuz most of them werent very good at all.

On March 19 2009 11:44 StRyKeR wrote:


if you're having trouble vs. defilers, don't put yourself in a situation where your main is getting owned by swarm

it's like Neo in the matrix --

Neo: Are you saying that I can eventually dodge bulletsdark swarm?
Morpheus: No. When you're ready, you won't have to.

I agree that dark swarm is hella hella strong in some situations. But overall, the matchup tvz is balanced. If anything, terran > zerg

On March 19 2009 11:49 ramen247 wrote:


-_-...no matter how aggressive i am, its not so hard to defend your expos... and its not so hard to just charge some random lurkling defiler group into my nat while i am out hunting expos. watch savior vs forgg. savior consatntly brings a small zerg force with a defiler thru and alternate passageway to forgg's nat and just keeps abusing swarm to make the nat totally unuseable. forgg cannot do anything except irradiate and just sit there and wait.

or another situation.

its late game and i have some sk army running around...

i go and atk your 4th base. you have 3 lurkers stationed there burrowed.

i spread and atk the 3 lurks, thish shud be fucking easy. you bring defiler thru nydus and cast a swarm over the lurkers.

me: -_-. my marines have to back off, and i have to start iradiating. this gives you enuff time to bring the rest of your army and position it in favor of you ofc, and if i dont gtfo out of there, i will get raped in the behind by a swarm in the back of me.

On March 19 2009 11:46 StRyKeR wrote:


to me, if someone catches me offguard and bum-rushes me or does something that passes my radar, that's worthy of respect

I mean, it's also a mind-game, not just a "whose mechanic is better" or "who memorizes builds better" -- it's about who wins.

if you don't respect this mind-game, then I would think you're playing for "fun" and not to "win", and that's an insult to the game, so to me, you're being a dick. this reasoning probably doesn't apply to most, but that's how I see it. but of course, it does suck and it pisses me off how I could let 2 vultures run into my main and sack all of my drones and it's gg instantly

i mean, ground units with range that are the fastest in the game, kills a drone in 3 hits, has 80 hp, costs 75 minerals? wtf? i should be angry about zvt imbalance :|

On March 19 2009 11:52 IdrA wrote:

you mean units that die if anything attacks them? ya theyre pretty strong

'mind games' is often a euphamism for 'wins i dont deserve'. july's zvt is a mind fuck. ptaks zvt is making 2 control groups of speedlings and praying. if you think he deserves respect for that thats fine, but i think you're giving credit where none is due.

On March 19 2009 11:49 StRyKeR wrote:


do you really think that? how many zergs have reached that prime? I can't think of any, because despite Jaedong's monster ZvT, whenever he faces Flash or some good terran, I always see him as the underdog. In fact, that argument applies more to terrans. During the savior-era, every terran got manhandled by fast hive. Now that terrans are reaching higher levels of tvz, savior gets ass-raped all the time.

It's of course a testament to how hard high level zvt is that there are only three progamers with > 6% win ratios. I'm glad we can agree that high level zvt is harder than high level tvz. But I disagree that highest level zvt > highest level tvz.

On March 19 2009 11:52 IdrA wrote:

you mean units that die if anything attacks them? ya theyre pretty strong

'mind games' is often a euphamism for 'wins i dont deserve'. july's zvt is a mind fuck. ptaks zvt is making 2 control groups of speedlings and praying. if you think he deserves respect for that thats fine, but i think you're giving credit where none is due.

On March 19 2009 11:56 StRyKeR wrote:


it seems like this is where we disagree, which is surprising, because Terran uses the most mind fuck out of all the races

wall in with supply + rax -- what could you possibly be doing? I have to hedge on everything unless I suicide an overlord. Build hydra den in case you go wraith, make 3rd hatch at nat to prevent vulture runbys, make a sunk at home in case you drop mnm, the list goes on.

the game is great because it's not all about who has the better build, but who makes the fewest mistakes. if you look away for a second and you get ling rushed, that's really your fault isn't it?

as much as i hate to say it, if a terran catches me off guard and drops mnm when i expect wraiths, it's my failed calculations and hedging that loses me the game.

i agree that it's a gamble for the other player, but a good player should be able to defend against gambles and all-in style plays. it's part of being a good player and not just a robot that memorizes builds to the second

On March 19 2009 11:56 IdrA wrote:

jaedong raped the piss out of flash in the only 'conventional' series theyve played (the msl a few seasons ago), he raped the piss out of him with 2 hat muta in the gom1 finals. hes only been getting beat down since hes become addicted to 2 hat muta and since the mech revolution started to fuck with things.
sad to say it but savior isnt just getting beat by terrans now. he is not playing like he was during his dominance.

also do not put words in my mouth. i did not say high level zvt was harder than high level tvz. i said it was harder to reach high level, but once you're there i think theyre equal. that is because the skills necessary for the 2 matchups are different, zvt is more general game management and intelligence and whatnot while tvz is almost pure mechanics. in progaming (the only place high level in this sense is reach) everyone practices a shitload. this makes it relatively easy to get insane mechanics, whereas its much more difficult to develop the kind of bw-intelligence that savior had.

On March 19 2009 12:01 StRyKeR wrote:


okay, I misinterpreted your post, but I actually meant what you said, so we do agree.

the skills you need are indeed different, and the amorphous quality of "game management" and "intelligence" is what makes zerg possibly impossible to really fully understand.

now that i think about it, it's kind of meaningless to think of which race is harder to play "at the highest possible level" because no human will ever reach it. we have to deal with human limitations, and I will argue that zerg vs terran is a matchup that favors terran for human players with limited foresight, mechanics, and intelligence

On March 19 2009 11:59 ramen247 wrote:



if he drops mnm when you expected wraiths... then just backstab his base while massing sunkens at the base that is still undamaged... ez.

On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.

On March 19 2009 12:04 IdrA wrote:
i think leaving the game carries that message quite sufficiently...