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On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that?
lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset?
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Swarm is fucking hard to use against a decent T. If he's good, you'll have to swarmhop from screen to screen, from your nat to his, which can take close to a minute, during which he has enough time to fill up 2 dropships and raze your tech (thank you dream.t)minuet for showing me that the painful way).
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Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!"
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On March 19 2009 12:11 Nytefish wrote:
Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!"
seriously, in terms of practicality, it's like
say gg
= forego some of your ego, don't get flamed for 9 pages on TL
don't say gg
= guard your sacred ego, get flamed for 9 pages on TL
I guess in the end it's a value judgment on whether your set of internal beliefs about deserving respect is worth much
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On March 19 2009 12:08 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that? lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset?
I think we can both agree that zvt and tvz are hard
and I've tried terran. I get rolled by ultras all the time.
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On March 19 2009 12:06 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:04 IdrA wrote:
i think leaving the game carries that message quite sufficiently... well, if we're talking about the games I played, it's clear handy knew the purpose of the gg, seeing as how he used it second game to rub it in my face but knowing that the community at large equates gg with good manners, you're just asking for it by not saying gg if 95% of people you talk to expect you to look into their eyes while you're talking, you don't deserve sympathy if you don't and they don't trust you for it
im not really defending him, from the little interaction ive had hes a little dick
just saying the obessesion with saying gg in general is kinda retarded.
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On March 19 2009 12:10 t_co wrote:
Swarm is fucking hard to use against a decent T. If he's good, you'll have to swarmhop from screen to screen, from your nat to his, which can take close to a minute, during which he has enough time to fill up 2 dropships and raze your tech (thank you dream.t)minuet for showing me that the painful way).
terran has to get pretty ahead to be able to push a zerg around like that.
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On March 19 2009 12:11 Nytefish wrote:
Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!"
wouldnt it be the people bitching about not saying gg who are attaching undue amounts of meaning to it then?
and i was just arguing about it from the respect thing because thats the most common justification i see for it
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On March 19 2009 12:14 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:11 Nytefish wrote:
Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!" wouldnt it be the people bitching about not saying gg who are attaching undue amounts of meaning to it then?
Yes I'm not saying people who don't gg deserve to be bitched at, just that it's a nice gesture which doesn't cost much. Like how you shake hands or say thanks in other sports, just because it's a computer game doesn't mean you aren't competing against humans.
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On March 19 2009 12:14 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:11 Nytefish wrote:
Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!" wouldnt it be the people bitching about not saying gg who are attaching undue amounts of meaning to it then?
sure you can say that, but in the end their head count (many) > your head count (1) and you'll just have to deal with bad publicity and 95% of people talking shit behind your back
i think we'll have to settle this with a bo7
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On March 19 2009 12:12 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:08 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that? lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset? I think we can both agree that zvt and tvz are hard and I've tried terran. I get rolled by ultras all the time.
thats not even that bad. at least you can tell yourself, oh, i lost cz i didnt macro well enuff or some crap like that.
if someone beats you with a swarm like that, and it wasnt czu of macro or w/e since you have 30 SUPPPLY higher, then you get pretty lost and you dont really know how to fix that problem.
if a zerg manages to killl you with mutas, you really dont know why you lost. you abused your standard build order as much as you could, and you didnt slip up. how come the mutas still did so much damge????
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On March 19 2009 12:15 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:14 IdrA wrote:On March 19 2009 12:11 Nytefish wrote:
Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!" wouldnt it be the people bitching about not saying gg who are attaching undue amounts of meaning to it then? sure you can say that, but in the end their head count (many) > your head count (1) and you'll just have to deal with bad publicity and 95% of people talking shit behind your back i think we'll have to settle this with a bo7
lol?
a bo7 with stryker and idra?
that would be pretty orgasmic to me.
but if you are going to decide the answer to the argument thru a bo7...im pretty sure idra will end up winning...
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On March 19 2009 12:16 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:12 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:08 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that? lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset? I think we can both agree that zvt and tvz are hard and I've tried terran. I get rolled by ultras all the time. thats not even that bad. at least you can tell yourself, oh, i lost cz i didnt macro well enuff or some crap like that. if someone beats you with a swarm like that, and it wasnt czu of macro or w/e since you have 30 SUPPPLY higher, then you get pretty lost and you dont really know how to fix that problem. if a zerg manages to killl you with mutas, you really dont know why you lost. you abused your standard build order as much as you could, and you didnt slip up. how come the mutas still did so much damge????
being above 30 supply doesn't mean you're ahead and you should win. at no point in the game should you really say "i'm ahead, i should win" and then lose, and be sorry that you lost. Zergs usually are behind in supply anyway, they win through numbers not supply.
i'm not good with terran at all
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On March 19 2009 12:16 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:12 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:08 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that? lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset? I think we can both agree that zvt and tvz are hard and I've tried terran. I get rolled by ultras all the time. thats not even that bad. at least you can tell yourself, oh, i lost cz i didnt macro well enuff or some crap like that. if someone beats you with a swarm like that, and it wasnt czu of macro or w/e since you have 30 SUPPPLY higher, then you get pretty lost and you dont really know how to fix that problem. if a zerg manages to killl you with mutas, you really dont know why you lost. you abused your standard build order as much as you could, and you didnt slip up. how come the mutas still did so much damge????
oh, and I can understand the pain of one swarm raping your supply depots if you can understand the pain of 2 vultures running by your sunks and raping 20 drones
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people dont say gg because theyre frustrated from losing to stupid things like a swarm in the nat... everyone just becomes mindless robots saying GG when clearly, the game couldve been crap
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On March 19 2009 12:17 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:16 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:12 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:08 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that? lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset? I think we can both agree that zvt and tvz are hard and I've tried terran. I get rolled by ultras all the time. thats not even that bad. at least you can tell yourself, oh, i lost cz i didnt macro well enuff or some crap like that. if someone beats you with a swarm like that, and it wasnt czu of macro or w/e since you have 30 SUPPPLY higher, then you get pretty lost and you dont really know how to fix that problem. if a zerg manages to killl you with mutas, you really dont know why you lost. you abused your standard build order as much as you could, and you didnt slip up. how come the mutas still did so much damge???? being above 30 supply doesn't mean you're ahead and you should win. at no point in the game should you really say "i'm ahead, i should win" and then lose, and be sorry that you lost. Zergs usually are behind in supply anyway, they win through numbers not supply. i'm not good with terran at all
i include "30 supply" to show how the terran hasnt made much major flaws but still loses in one fell swoop.
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On March 19 2009 12:15 Nytefish wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:14 IdrA wrote:On March 19 2009 12:11 Nytefish wrote:
Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!" wouldnt it be the people bitching about not saying gg who are attaching undue amounts of meaning to it then? Yes I'm not saying people who don't gg deserve to be bitched at, just that it's a nice gesture which doesn't cost much. Like how you shake hands or say thanks in other sports, just because it's a computer game doesn't mean you aren't competing against humans.
well if its a nice gesture then there has to be meaning behind it. if there were no meaning it would be.. a meaningless gesture
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On March 19 2009 12:18 StRyKeR wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:16 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:12 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:08 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that? lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset? I think we can both agree that zvt and tvz are hard and I've tried terran. I get rolled by ultras all the time. thats not even that bad. at least you can tell yourself, oh, i lost cz i didnt macro well enuff or some crap like that. if someone beats you with a swarm like that, and it wasnt czu of macro or w/e since you have 30 SUPPPLY higher, then you get pretty lost and you dont really know how to fix that problem. if a zerg manages to killl you with mutas, you really dont know why you lost. you abused your standard build order as much as you could, and you didnt slip up. how come the mutas still did so much damge???? oh, and I can understand the pain of one swarm raping your supply depots if you can understand the pain of 2 vultures running by your sunks and raping 20 drones
but thats a problem that can be fixed thru things like building placement...
and who says the zerg has to do a frontal attack. its really not that hard to drop a defiler with lurkling into the terran main in the late game... supply depots for free....
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On March 19 2009 12:14 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:11 Nytefish wrote:
Just don't attach so much meaning to gg. No one's going to say "loool he said gg that proves i pwned him!!!". But they wil say "omg no gg BM!!" wouldnt it be the people bitching about not saying gg who are attaching undue amounts of meaning to it then? and i was just arguing about it from the respect thing because thats the most common justification i see for it
so you don't say gg when you think the other player played a gamble strategy that basically relied on one fault in your strategy
well, are you ever really sure that happened, Idra? I'd be sure, but AFTER watching the replay. Often times, the other player is playing as legitimately as he knows how, practicing a lot, getting feedback, preparing it. Especially in this case, I felt bad-manner from Handy because I was trying my hardest to win in a way I knew how, not thinking of doing an all-in strategy and "getting away" with a win. Is there no benefit of the doubt in Handy's mind, or is it just an assumption to assume that he'd been had?
Sometimes they go out of their way to LOOK for your weaknesses -- is respect really undeserved in that case? Me analyzing your replays and finding a weakness and making a risky bo to counter it?
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On March 19 2009 12:20 ramen247 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 12:18 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:16 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:12 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:08 ramen247 wrote:On March 19 2009 12:04 StRyKeR wrote:On March 19 2009 12:02 IdrA wrote:
you missed my point, the july counterexample was the kind of thing that does deserve respect because he does outsmart his opponents. the eastern european zergs arent trying to trick their opponents or anything, they do the same allin every single game, they just hope their opponent isnt familiar with their styles. ya terrans to blame for not scouting it or whatever, but that doesnt mean that the zerg deserves respect for it.
sure, but if I were the terran I'd still say gg because gg to me means "you got me, good game" not "I respect your level of playing which was vastly superior to mine" actually, don't most people think that? lol? try terran. seriously try it against idra's pick of players and i bet you will be so frustrated you are ready to cut yourself. you think artosis is really just joking when he gets angry and upset? I think we can both agree that zvt and tvz are hard and I've tried terran. I get rolled by ultras all the time. thats not even that bad. at least you can tell yourself, oh, i lost cz i didnt macro well enuff or some crap like that. if someone beats you with a swarm like that, and it wasnt czu of macro or w/e since you have 30 SUPPPLY higher, then you get pretty lost and you dont really know how to fix that problem. if a zerg manages to killl you with mutas, you really dont know why you lost. you abused your standard build order as much as you could, and you didnt slip up. how come the mutas still did so much damge???? oh, and I can understand the pain of one swarm raping your supply depots if you can understand the pain of 2 vultures running by your sunks and raping 20 drones but thats a problem that can be fixed thru things like building placement... and who says the zerg has to do a frontal attack. its really not that hard to drop a defiler with lurkling into the terran main in the late game... supply depots for free....
that's what I mean, ramen. I can argue against you using the same thing. "you can do this to block defilers. you can do this, this this, etc etc etc. look at hwasin, etc. etc."
I'll agree that it's harder to block dark swarm pushes than vulture runbys, but come on, in the end we deal with it. You can deal with it. I can practice with you (unless you're like really bad, then I don't wanna)
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EPT
