EPT"Player A has LESS scvs"
"Player B has LESS marines"
wrong wrong wrong.
=> Player A has FEWER scvs.
=> Player B has FEWER marines.
You have LESS gas, but you have FEWER expansions.
Commentary Catchphrase Rant - Page 12
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SlimeBagly
356 Posts
"Player A has LESS scvs" "Player B has LESS marines" wrong wrong wrong. => Player A has FEWER scvs. => Player B has FEWER marines. You have LESS gas, but you have FEWER expansions. | ||
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
On June 10 2011 04:36 SlimeBagly wrote: One that's always bothered me, that casters get wrong 95% of the time: "Player A has LESS scvs" "Player B has LESS marines" wrong wrong wrong. => Player A has FEWER scvs. => Player B has FEWER marines. wut? Seems like the kinda shit only an english teacher would nitpick about. | ||
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SlimeBagly
356 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On June 10 2011 04:36 SlimeBagly wrote: One that's always bothered me, that casters get wrong 95% of the time: "Player A has LESS scvs" "Player B has LESS marines" wrong wrong wrong. => Player A has FEWER scvs. => Player B has FEWER marines. You have LESS gas, but you have FEWER expansions. Yes, stuff like this (countable vs uncountable) is starting to bug me too. "Hes has a lot of army moving out." "Moving out with a big units."  | ||
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Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On June 10 2011 02:48 ghrur wrote: Bump bump bump bump, because the issue has become worse now. SC2 seems to be filled with timing attacks... I doubt it actually is. People push EVERYWHERE in SC2. I hate it. It's like, Zerg trying to break a Terran's siege line, and the commentator yells, "Here comes the push!" *facepalm* Push, metagame and timing are out of control. | ||
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UrASofty
Canada772 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
Dictionary.com says less means the same as fewer (although fewer doesn't mean the same as less). "fewer: less than a dozen" "a smaller amount or quantity: Hundreds of soldiers arrived, but less of them remained." I think most people use the word this way. I'm not one of those people who say 'language is always evolving' and pretend that's a good argument, but I think you have to respect how people actually use the word. What sounds better: "I have less cookies than him!" or "I have fewer cookies than him!" Less sounds best, because one syllable conveys the emotion much better. Fewer is a somewhat clinical word which you stumble over and slow down to say properly. Then again, if your commentary consists of saying 'this guy has less units than this guy' it's gonna be pretty boring regardless. It's not so much an abuse of language as it is just people not having anything interesting to say. So I'm saying that you're right these commentaries are bad, but I think the faults go beyond petty inconsistencies with how language is being used. If everything else was good, you wouldn't notice the grammar. When you read good modernist writing, you're not upset by sentences without subjects or verbs. When people read bad writing in general, the first thing they go after is the grammar errors, but it's never the real problem. | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
said in immediate succession, this is the worst thing | ||
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Rasun
United States787 Posts
1. I have never understood what exactly a timing attack means. It seems to be used anytime you attack when soon after an upgrade or unit finishes. What exactly is a timing attack? Its used as such a general term. 2. I always thought metagame meant any information the players are using from out of game, I avoid using it though because you hear people talking about how its so misused, but I have never actually heard anyone explain what it really means. 3. In war, pushing means to advance forward, to go on the offensive, this is a war game, so this one does not bother me at all. Now when its a smaller attack with a group of units that only represents a fraction of the players total force then yes attack is the correct term, but when someone is moving all there forces out to perform a major offensive then "push" is correct. Or even when someone moves out to take control of a certain area, a planned move to accomplish a directed goal, then push is also correct because you are pushing the opponent out of that area of the map, you are advancing your front lines, and reducing your opponents front lines. This is a push. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
There really aren't many standardized builds at all, so are there any real timings builds at all in SC2? It's like you can do any of the dozen 2hatch muta builds and people will still make it seem like they're all the same. Or open in any random variety, fast expand, move out with a bunch of tanks and they'll still talk about a "timing", but the phrase is so vague that it's almost meaningless sometimes. | ||
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numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
On June 10 2011 06:09 Rasun wrote: 1. I have never understood what exactly a timing attack means. It seems to be used anytime you attack when soon after an upgrade or unit finishes. What exactly is a timing attack? Its used as such a general term. 2. I always thought metagame meant any information the players are using from out of game, I avoid using it though because you hear people talking about how its so misused, but I have never actually heard anyone explain what it really means. 3. In war, pushing means to advance forward, to go on the offensive, this is a war game, so this one does not bother me at all. Now when its a smaller attack with a group of units that only represents a fraction of the players total force then yes attack is the correct term, but when someone is moving all there forces out to perform a major offensive then "push" is correct. Or even when someone moves out to take control of a certain area, a planned move to accomplish a directed goal, then push is also correct because you are pushing the opponent out of that area of the map, you are advancing your front lines, and reducing your opponents front lines. This is a push. A timing attack, as far as I understand it, is an attack that hits a very specific window of opportunity. Often you will time an upgrade to coincide with this window, or cut workers to mass up to hit the window, but the fact that an upgrade finishes doesn't usually create a window itself. An example of a window of opportunity is the time after an opponent cuts production to expand. There will be a period before the expansion kicks in that the player will have a weaker force. Another example would be hitting before a key tech unit comes out. I don't know about SC2 that much, but a classic BW example is TvZ hitting the zerg just before hive tech and defilers properly kick in. Thus they invest in something other than army, making them vulnerable, and you strike before the investment kicks in. | ||
SirJolt
the Dagon Knight4010 Posts
On June 10 2011 04:47 Chill wrote: Yes, stuff like this (countable vs uncountable) is starting to bug me too. The sad thing is that if this were right it could be used to add such richness to a cast. Consciously deciding to refer to a particularly large group of zerglings as though they were a single entity should be an enjoyable variation, not the mistaken norm | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
How about all-in chill. No love? We could make a ridiculously long list which includes everything from magic box to 'marine splitting.' Makes me cringe. I cannot believe how many people copy Sean too with big blunder and some others. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On June 10 2011 06:09 Rasun wrote: 1. I have never understood what exactly a timing attack means. It seems to be used anytime you attack when soon after an upgrade or unit finishes. What exactly is a timing attack? Its used as such a general term. 2. I always thought metagame meant any information the players are using from out of game, I avoid using it though because you hear people talking about how its so misused, but I have never actually heard anyone explain what it really means. 3. In war, pushing means to advance forward, to go on the offensive, this is a war game, so this one does not bother me at all. Now when its a smaller attack with a group of units that only represents a fraction of the players total force then yes attack is the correct term, but when someone is moving all there forces out to perform a major offensive then "push" is correct. Or even when someone moves out to take control of a certain area, a planned move to accomplish a directed goal, then push is also correct because you are pushing the opponent out of that area of the map, you are advancing your front lines, and reducing your opponents front lines. This is a push. 1. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=65645 In case you don't want to read that: There are many types of timing and some are barely related to others. They are, however, joined by one fact: Timing is maximizing your advantage at a certain relative game time. Vague as it sounds, that’s the best definition I can come up that covers all forms of timing. A timing attack is doing a specific build that is fundamentally designed to be strongest at a period when your opponent is weakest. 2. Yes, metagame means using information from outside the game. Doing a build that blind counters the most popular build is an example of playing the metagame; however, people have just decided to use metagame as "the standard state of popular strategy" which is wrong. 3. Yes, that's a literal definiton of push and a push. They used to convey more meaning "Tank push", "Lurker push", etc. but that meaning is now completely lost. Pushing used to involve some form of activating an offensive stance and defensive stance. Now it just means attacking. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On June 10 2011 06:33 StarStruck wrote: How about all-in chill. No love? We could make a ridiculously long list which includes everything from magic box to 'marine splitting.' Makes me cringe. I cannot believe how many people copy Sean too with big blunder and some others. Yea, magic box is now meaningless too. It now means "clicking anywhere that doesn't force your air units to clump up." All-in was always misused so I don't really care about that actually  | ||
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JeeJee
Canada5652 Posts
On June 10 2011 04:36 SlimeBagly wrote: One that's always bothered me, that casters get wrong 95% of the time: "Player A has LESS scvs" "Player B has LESS marines" wrong wrong wrong. => Player A has FEWER scvs. => Player B has FEWER marines. You have LESS gas, but you have FEWER expansions. You can count gas, why not fewer for gas? I don't really know the details as it seem like such a trivial point but I thought the only difference is that fewer is supposed to be used on countable quantities. | ||
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Rasun
United States787 Posts
On June 10 2011 06:51 Chill wrote: 1. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=65645 In case you don't want to read that: A timing attack is doing a specific build that is fundamentally designed to be strongest at a period when your opponent is weakest. 2. Yes, metagame means using information from outside the game. Doing a build that blind counters the most popular build is an example of playing the metagame; however, people have just decided to use metagame as "the standard state of popular strategy" which is wrong. 3. Yes, that's a literal definiton of push and a push. They used to convey more meaning "Tank push", "Lurker push", etc. but that meaning is now completely lost. Pushing used to involve some form of activating an offensive stance and defensive stance. Now it just means attacking. Ok, thanks for the clarification. | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
On June 10 2011 05:35 Chef wrote: Dictionary.com says less means the same as fewer (although fewer doesn't mean the same as less). "fewer: less than a dozen" "a smaller amount or quantity: Hundreds of soldiers arrived, but less of them remained." I think most people use the word this way. I'm not one of those people who say 'language is always evolving' and pretend that's a good argument, but I think you have to respect how people actually use the word. What sounds better: "I have less cookies than him!" or "I have fewer cookies than him!" Less sounds best, because one syllable conveys the emotion much better. Fewer is a somewhat clinical word which you stumble over and slow down to say properly. THAN HE! THAN HE! Sorry. <3Grammatical mistakes by casters are starting to annoy me. It's "really quickly," not "real quick." Example: He's reinforcing real quick. No. He's reinforcing really quickly. Correct. | ||
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
But I do get annoyed if the caster/commentator uses wrong SC term. People nowadays used all-in, metagame, timing attack way to much and most of the time its just plain wrong. I think one of the reason these terms get used to often is in SC2, the game doesn't have as much action as SC:BW. In SC:BW, you have a lot of things going on past the 3-5 mins mark to talk about, in SC2 there are alot of time caster has to find thing to discuss, to talk about when 2 players just sitting their ass off to build a death ball then a-move each other. So basically, casters make stuff up on the fly thus more mistakes are made. | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
This has always bugged me. Am I missing something? Please don't tell me it's manier. | ||
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