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SPOILER ALERT!!!
I remembered watching with amazement the cheese strat that SkyHigh used against Jaedong on Destination. Jaedong had no clue that SkyHigh lifted a barracks into the huge area behind his minerals and started building marines.
I thought Jaedong's reaction was a bit strange. My guess is that he was startled. There was only three rines so I think his drones could have taken him on. Jaedong would have probably lost 6 drones or so but isn't that preferable to losing the main hatchery and spawning pool?
Anyway, I just played this game on Destination on BNet, and somehow I got this vibe that this Terran player would cheese me in the style of Skyhigh.
So I open 12 hatch and I send my second overlord behind my minerals and -- voila! There was a barracks just about finished. I LOL'ed but realized I didn't know what to do.
Should I attack the barracks with my drones? Should I wait for the marines to come out before engaging? Should I stop the SCV from building that bunker at my nat?
I figured, there's no point in attacking the barracks, so I just waited for it to finish. In fact, I waited for the marine to finish building.
At the same time, the Terran started building a bunker at my main, so I sent a drone to go attack the SCV.
After the cheese, I lost a couple drones but I fended off the rush with relative ease.
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect!
I learned two things this game. 1) Surrounding the factory entrance is pimp. 2) I should not have even bothered to attack the bunker at my nat. All I need is to kill the rines coming out. It takes forever for his marines to travel from behind my base to my nat, and I need to kill his marines anyway, so there's no reason to go after that nat bunker.
EDIT: One last thing -- placing buildings diagonally always blocks vulture runbys. Terrans often don't realize this, thinking they can get past the diagonal space. It happened in this game, and he threw away 2 vultures as a result. Diagonal building placement is good.
Replay link: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/4422/replays/0382 sHinJT rageFuryZ.rep
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yeah i agree, alot of terrans leave their mains undefended to ling backstabs when they cheese, and that's often exploitable (but zergs often miss this opportunity)
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When i was watching that game the thing that came in my head was oh god every zerg is going to have this happened to them at iccup.
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Thanks for the rep. I really like this build by skYhigh and I want to use it. By watching, maybe I can figure out how to survive if a zerg counters like you. '
gj on the counter though
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On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect!
uhhh no wall?
this build sucks without a wall
<.<
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On February 16 2009 12:38 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect! uhhh no wall? this build sucks without a wall <.<
skyhigh's variation on the fast fac involves a proxy rax
can't really wall without the rax inbase
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On February 16 2009 12:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 12:38 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect! uhhh no wall? this build sucks without a wall <.< skyhigh's variation on the fast fac involves a proxy rax can't really wall without the rax inbase
You could wall fax/depot/depot to prevent the ling counter?
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On February 16 2009 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 12:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:38 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect! uhhh no wall? this build sucks without a wall <.< skyhigh's variation on the fast fac involves a proxy rax can't really wall without the rax inbase You could wall fax/depot/depot to prevent the ling counter?
ooo that's true actually
depot on top of fact walls out lings i think
you'd be slightly vulnerable when you lift for the shop, but only if they make enough lings to overwhelm your vult numbers, which puts them behind economically
hm someone try this
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I played a weird game on iccup like this -__-
I was terran, and trying to be cool like skyhigh, I sent out my 5th scv to build the rax behind his minerals
All went according to plan, until I sent my scv in to actually scout his base, and noticed no hatch at expo or main, but a pool was starting
Confused, I check the back of my minerals, and lo and behold, he was building a hatch right there..
Apparently, we both sent out our 5th worker to build in the opponent's base
he was terrible though, and i ended up killing his hatch in my main with scvs, then killing his main with my rax 
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I didn't watch the replay, but just a comment, even if you surround the factory's entrance with lings, the Terran can still get his vulture out by rallying, and as soon as the vulture finishes, lifting the factory. I first saw that in FBH vs. Jaedong on Harmony, where FBH tried some cute play with lifting/landing the factory in Jaedong's base.
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Didn't Skyhigh wall off his base?
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On February 16 2009 12:46 phase wrote:
I didn't watch the replay, but just a comment, even if you surround the factory's entrance with lings, the Terran can still get his vulture out by rallying, and as soon as the vulture finishes, lifting the factory. I first saw that in FBH vs. Jaedong on Harmony, where FBH tried some cute play with lifting/landing the factory in Jaedong's base.
i dont get it,,,
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The bunker at the nat was the genius part of this. Jaedong couldnt tackle those 3 rines with drones because he had already sent more than half to his natural.
Oh and well if you scouted it before it was done why didnt you prevent it from landing with a drone?, afterwards just attack it with 3 drones and kill the marine. I think that, if you really know how, you can make a little prison for the marine with just 3 drones.
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When you lift off you Factory, the Vulture can escape, obviously. Question to OP: What rank are you on ICCUP?
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if you see the rax almost finished, just place a drone under it and prevent it from landing :D
like savior vs iris on HH
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On February 16 2009 13:04 Cloud wrote:
Oh and well if you scouted it before it was done why didnt you prevent it from landing with a drone?, afterwards just attack it with 3 drones and kill the marine. I think that, if you really know how, you can make a little prison for the marine with just 3 drones.
Pretty much what I was thinking, use a drone and prevent the rax from landing, then watch as the Terran panics in realization of his situation.
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is awesome32277 Posts
If he's doing the lift barracks thing to build in your main, wait for him to lift and keep microing a drone under it (or 2) so he can't land it.
Voilá.
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On February 16 2009 12:42 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 16 2009 12:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:38 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect! uhhh no wall? this build sucks without a wall <.< skyhigh's variation on the fast fac involves a proxy rax can't really wall without the rax inbase You could wall fax/depot/depot to prevent the ling counter? ooo that's true actually depot on top of fact walls out lings i think you'd be slightly vulnerable when you lift for the shop, but only if they make enough lings to overwhelm your vult numbers, which puts them behind economically hm someone try this
skyhigh walled with a 2nd rax
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Wow, actually that's a really good suggestion.
1) Drone under barracks, barracks can't land.
2) Otherwise, make a prison with drones.
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On February 16 2009 13:06 d1v wrote:
When you lift off you Factory, the Vulture can escape, obviously. Question to OP: What rank are you on ICCUP?
Not sure how this is relevant, but I was C+ last season.
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On February 16 2009 13:20 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 12:42 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 16 2009 12:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:38 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect! uhhh no wall? this build sucks without a wall <.< skyhigh's variation on the fast fac involves a proxy rax can't really wall without the rax inbase You could wall fax/depot/depot to prevent the ling counter? ooo that's true actually depot on top of fact walls out lings i think you'd be slightly vulnerable when you lift for the shop, but only if they make enough lings to overwhelm your vult numbers, which puts them behind economically hm someone try this skyhigh walled with a 2nd rax
yeah but if you go fact transition, you shouldnt need a 2nd rax, right? wouldnt walling with the fact be 150 mins saved?
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On February 16 2009 13:30 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 13:20 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:42 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 16 2009 12:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:38 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect! uhhh no wall? this build sucks without a wall <.< skyhigh's variation on the fast fac involves a proxy rax can't really wall without the rax inbase You could wall fax/depot/depot to prevent the ling counter? ooo that's true actually depot on top of fact walls out lings i think you'd be slightly vulnerable when you lift for the shop, but only if they make enough lings to overwhelm your vult numbers, which puts them behind economically hm someone try this skyhigh walled with a 2nd rax yeah but if you go fact transition, you shouldnt need a 2nd rax, right? wouldnt walling with the fact be 150 mins saved?
well as long as you wall, you win, so why bother screwing around with odd factory positions?
then when you want to break out, you have to stop vult production on one of your facs.
it needlessly complicates things over 150 minerals which arent really relevant in this play
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wouldn't one sunken colony have been enough?
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wow, already cheese like this? lmao.
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if you scout him making the rax there just take one drone and block the barracks from landing on the upper ground.
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On February 16 2009 13:33 fusionsdf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2009 13:30 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 13:20 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:42 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On February 16 2009 12:39 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:On February 16 2009 12:38 [AhunGrY]MelOn wrote:On February 16 2009 12:30 StRyKeR wrote:
Now here's where I got creative (*pat on my back*). I knew he had no defense at home, and at best, his factory would have just finished. I hatched 8 lings and sent them directly to his main. Lo and behold, there was a factory with a vulture building, and another factory about to finish! Using my quick thinking, I used 5 lings to surround the factory entrance (I wasn't too sure I had the right surround) and used the other 3 to rape SCVs. A big grin spread across my face when the vulture popped out right into the lings' wrath. Strategy perfect! uhhh no wall? this build sucks without a wall <.< skyhigh's variation on the fast fac involves a proxy rax can't really wall without the rax inbase You could wall fax/depot/depot to prevent the ling counter? ooo that's true actually depot on top of fact walls out lings i think you'd be slightly vulnerable when you lift for the shop, but only if they make enough lings to overwhelm your vult numbers, which puts them behind economically hm someone try this skyhigh walled with a 2nd rax yeah but if you go fact transition, you shouldnt need a 2nd rax, right? wouldnt walling with the fact be 150 mins saved? well as long as you wall, you win, so why bother screwing around with odd factory positions? then when you want to break out, you have to stop vult production on one of your facs. it needlessly complicates things over 150 minerals which arent really relevant in this play
lifting and moving your factory 1 spot costs you a couple of seconds of build time, 150 minerals earlier on in the game off a relatively low econ build slows you significantly more. itd be better to use the fac as long as you're going 2 fac and you dont need an addon before the 2nd fac would finish.
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EPT
