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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On February 13 2009 10:01 Piy wrote: w00t. It makes me happy to know I'm not the only UK TL nerd to be on at 1 in the morning. lol it's 2:43 now and I'm still on here, | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 13 2009 10:46 IdrA wrote: Nor does he. So get the fuck out of the thread, asshole. perhaps but i dont spend my life encouraging others to waste theirs as well  | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
hes becoming a priest | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
On February 13 2009 14:45 IdrA wrote: ? hes becoming a priest Touché | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
On February 13 2009 14:45 IdrA wrote: ? hes becoming a priest lol | ||
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feathers
United States236 Posts
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On February 13 2009 14:45 IdrA wrote: Do you even know what a priest does? Even if you are against religion, in what way, shape, or form, do they encourage people to waste their lives? Be moral, be kind to your family, donate to charities. Is this a waste of your life? gtfo? hes becoming a priest | ||
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TechniQ.UK
United Kingdom391 Posts
but i dont spend my life encouraging others to waste theirs as well" - Idra Yeah your right idra because it's a waste of time trying to instruct others how 1) not to go to an eternal hell, 2) copy the example of the son of God, Jesus Christ who even by secular standards is probably the greatest example anyone could follow with his teachings like love thy neighbour. Oh and I will be visiting the old people in the congregation keeping them company during the week in their care homes, conducting funerals to bring comfort to the family of the dead, councelling anyone who needs help in the church with any aspect of life they bring to me and bringing the hope of Jesus Christ to drug addicts, criminals, violent offenders, homeless people if i can, and basically anyone and doing it all not with an attitude of pride but an attitude of serving the living God in the knowledge that I'm a worm as it says in the book of Isaiah and only like this because of unmerited grace and mercy and will be serving for his glory and honour and exaltation. Didn't think that one through did ya Idra. Maybe that's why you'll never be a Korean  . | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On February 14 2009 04:47 TechniQ.UK wrote: 2) copy the example of the son of God, Jesus Christ who even by secular standards is probably the greatest example anyone could follow with his teachings like love thy neighbour. He's got nothing on this guy. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 14 2009 04:47 TechniQ.UK wrote: "perhaps but i dont spend my life encouraging others to waste theirs as well" - Idra Yeah your right idra because it's a waste of time trying to instruct others how 1) not to go to an eternal hell, 2) copy the example of the son of God, Jesus Christ who even by secular standards is probably the greatest example anyone could follow with his teachings like love thy neighbour. Oh and I will be visiting the old people in the congregation keeping them company during the week in their care homes, conducting funerals to bring comfort to the family of the dead, councelling anyone who needs help in the church with any aspect of life they bring to me and bringing the hope of Jesus Christ to drug addicts, criminals, violent offenders, homeless people if i can, and basically anyone and doing it all not with an attitude of pride but an attitude of serving the living God in the knowledge that I'm a worm as it says in the book of Isaiah and only like this because of unmerited grace and mercy and will be serving for his glory and honour and exaltation. Didn't think that one through did ya Idra. Maybe that's why you'll never be a Korean .1)psychologically torture little kids into doing whatever the church says is moral so they can avoid burning forever in a fictional place look what religion did to you you're PROUD of considering yourself a worm. do you not see whats wrong with that? grow some balls and think for yourself. plenty of people who dont spend the work day preaching a fairy tale can help the homeless in far more substantial ways than 'bringing them the hope of Jesus Christ' bring them some food instead. something that'll actually make a difference. | ||
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TechniQ.UK
United Kingdom391 Posts
actually no getting to heaven is an act of trusting Jesus not You must follow these rules or HELLLLLLLLLLLL! I do think for myself, i wasnt raised christian and became a christian when i was 15. what do you spend the working day doing again? what contribution does that make to society? so please learn a bit about Christianity before you jump to conclusions. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
telling a little kid that his non-christian friend who died is gonna go suffer for all eternity through no fault of his own.. that wont damage a kid's psyche? telling a teenager that he'll suffer for all eternity if he doesnt convince himself he isnt gay.. that wont fuck him up? you might think for yourself, but you're doing it poorly. and it doesnt even make sense. why have commandments and whatnot if all that matters is accepting jesus. that takes out the one positive of the whole thing, convincing people to behave properly. if an axe murderer can accept jesus on death row and be saved while an otherwise innocent infidel goes to hell for being born to a non-christian family.. seriously do you not see anything wrong with that picture? | ||
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Ancestral
United States3230 Posts
On February 14 2009 04:47 TechniQ.UK wrote: "perhaps but i dont spend my life encouraging others to waste theirs as well" - Idra Yeah your right idra because it's a waste of time trying to instruct others how 1) not to go to an eternal hell, 2) copy the example of the son of God, Jesus Christ who even by secular standards is probably the greatest example anyone could follow with his teachings like love thy neighbour. Oh and I will be visiting the old people in the congregation keeping them company during the week in their care homes, conducting funerals to bring comfort to the family of the dead, councelling anyone who needs help in the church with any aspect of life they bring to me and bringing the hope of Jesus Christ to drug addicts, criminals, violent offenders, homeless people if i can, and basically anyone and doing it all not with an attitude of pride but an attitude of serving the living God in the knowledge that I'm a worm as it says in the book of Isaiah and only like this because of unmerited grace and mercy and will be serving for his glory and honour and exaltation. Didn't think that one through did ya Idra. Maybe that's why you'll never be a Korean .Christianity is a minority religion in Korea. Why is it always made to seem like it's 99% Christian over there? | ||
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TechniQ.UK
United Kingdom391 Posts
Well pretty sure that unless the minister was filled with hate and spite he would never say that to a gay teenager. and also a minister would never tell a little kid his dead friend is going to suffer in eternal hell. Not to mention that children go to heaven automatically if they die under an age of accountability. Why have commandments and everything? 1) to convict the world that it has sinned against God and needs a saviour. That was one of the purposes of the 10 commandments to make the jews/ the world aware they had gone astray and Jesus was the only way to be saved. Also the guy on death row you we're speaking about, see there is one problem with that. Salvation is not by free will but by a sovereign act of God. We don't choose God, God chooses us. The only reason someone gets saved is a supernatural act of God almighty making salvation effective for that person. It's called Calvinism, look it up. Saying a prayer or something like that won't take you to heaven and you can't love God without God first acting in love toward you by his Holy Spirit in regeneration in which your heart is changed so the God you once hated you now love. Up until that happens sinful man hates the Holy God of all glory because God is everything he's not(good, forgiving, sinless, pure, self-controlled, just) and God requires of him the sin he loves and the sin that his life revolves around. There are a lot of people in churches who think they are saved because they said a prayer in an evangelistic meeting and I'm not disagreeing that some of them may have been saved and then prayed that prayer/while they were doing it but the prayer itself is nothing, salvation is of the Lord. As you said an "otherwise innocent infidel" will go to hell. Well how innocent is the infidel? I mean did he keep the 10 commandments perfectly? No because no one can since adam and eve fell, that's why Jesus is required to pay the price of our sins because we have all done it and cannot pay God back for it and God in his perfect justice needs to punish the guilty. You wouldn't like a judge who didn't punish a murderer or a rapist and just let him go would you? Now think how much more important it is that God, ruler of all, the most high, has perfect justice. If he didn't we would be utterly screwed as would this world be. Your perfectly happy to get angry when you see injustice in the newspaper or that a guy raped and killed a little girl in the newspaper. Does God not have the same right to get angry at the evils of man? or is it only you and I who are allowed to get angry at man's evil? Not to mention if there is no God, have fun finding justice in your world because 1) the few years in prison will be over for that guy and 2) that little girl who got raped and killed will not end up in eternal bliss but would have suffered and been robbed of all the life she would have ever experienced. Thank God, God is real and he will punish the wicked, but his idea of wicked is all transgressors not just the rapists and murderers. but he gave his son to pay for the sins that I and you committed in his love, even though he owed us nothing and he was not obligated to do anything to save us. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On February 14 2009 23:22 TechniQ.UK wrote: Not to mention that children go to heaven automatically if they die under an age of accountability. verse? sola scriptura son | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 14 2009 23:22 TechniQ.UK wrote: "telling a little kid that his non-christian friend who died is gonna go suffer for all eternity through no fault of his own.. that wont damage a kid's psyche? telling a teenager that he'll suffer for all eternity if he doesnt convince himself he isnt gay.. that wont fuck him up?" - Idra Well pretty sure that unless the minister was filled with hate and spite he would never say that to a gay teenager. and also a minister would never tell a little kid his dead friend is going to suffer in eternal hell. Not to mention that children go to heaven automatically if they die under an age of accountability. seeing as your religion believes that gays will go to hell: + Show Spoiler + Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." 1 Cor 6  "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals" 1 Tim 1-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers" Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." it would be pretty irresponsible of the priest to NOT tell the gay teenager that. i find it incredibly ironic that you talk about 'accountability' given the rest of your post. doesnt the child still have 'original sin'? if that is ignored for children, how come it is applicable to the rest of us? we had no part in the fall, if children arent punished for things they had no control over why are we? Why have commandments and everything? 1) to convict the world that it has sinned against God and needs a saviour. That was one of the purposes of the 10 commandments to make the jews/ the world aware they had gone astray and Jesus was the only way to be saved. so he made the rules after they made mistakes in order to convict them? that doesnt exactly seem fair, how can you punish them for doing something when there were no rules against it, if the commandments were the foundation for the punishment? not to mention you just said that heaven/hell (punishment) is not a matter of right or wrong, but of accepting jesus. which is obviously not the case if the rules were instated in order to punish someone, if right/wrong had no part in judgement he would not have needed to make the rules to judge the jews. Also the guy on death row you we're speaking about, see there is one problem with that. Salvation is not by free will but by a sovereign act of God. We don't choose God, God chooses us. The only reason someone gets saved is a supernatural act of God almighty making salvation effective for that person. It's called Calvinism, look it up. Saying a prayer or something like that won't take you to heaven and you can't love God without God first acting in love toward you by his Holy Spirit in regeneration in which your heart is changed so the God you once hated you now love. Up until that happens sinful man hates the Holy God of all glory because God is everything he's not(good, forgiving, sinless, pure, self-controlled, just) and God requires of him the sin he loves and the sin that his life revolves around. so your eternal existence is dependent wholly upon gods whim? a good person can suffer and a bad person can go to heaven depending on whether or not god chooses to 'choose' them? once again, how is that fair? also, if god can 'change your heart' why even have heaven and hell? why not just make everyone good and let them enjoy life and heaven? dont give an answer based on free will because every part of your previous statements has basically thrown free will out the window. and, btw, thats not what i learned in sunday school. everything was about forgiveness and repenting and a loving god who would accept you into his arms and blah blah blah. There are a lot of people in churches who think they are saved because they said a prayer in an evangelistic meeting and I'm not disagreeing that some of them may have been saved and then prayed that prayer/while they were doing it but the prayer itself is nothing, salvation is of the Lord. so peoples fate is wholly independent of their actions and thoughts and whatnot. nifty. sounds like a logical system. As you said an "otherwise innocent infidel" will go to hell. Well how innocent is the infidel? I mean did he keep the 10 commandments perfectly? No because no one can since adam and eve fell, that's why Jesus is required to pay the price of our sins because we have all done it and cannot pay God back for it and God in his perfect justice needs to punish the guilty. You wouldn't like a judge who didn't punish a murderer or a rapist and just let him go would you? Now think how much more important it is that God, ruler of all, the most high, has perfect justice. If he didn't we would be utterly screwed as would this world be. if god in his perfect justice needs to punish the guilty, shouldnt he be punishing everyone (since no one is innocent, as you say)? why should some muslim guy get the short end of the stick cuz he was born in the wrong region? and dont say he should have converted, there is no reason for him to convert, the only reason to believe in the christian god is if you are raised/told/converted/whatever into the belief. that opportunity literally does not exist in the muslim world. if you deny that, what of people who lived before christianity, how were they expected accept a god they had never heard of? you said said that no one is entirely innocent. but jesus died to pay for our sins. so how come people still have to be punished? jesus' death didnt cover enough? (how does some guy dying 2000 years ago absolve anyone of anything anyway?) Your perfectly happy to get angry when you see injustice in the newspaper or that a guy raped and killed a little girl in the newspaper. Does God not have the same right to get angry at the evils of man? or is it only you and I who are allowed to get angry at man's evil? Not to mention if there is no God, have fun finding justice in your world because 1) the few years in prison will be over for that guy and 2) that little girl who got raped and killed will not end up in eternal bliss but would have suffered and been robbed of all the life she would have ever experienced. god has the power to 'change a persons heart' according to you, why didnt he make the rapist a good person in the first place and spare the little girl? jesus died for our sins, including the rapist/murders'. why does he have to be punished any more? and there is justice in our world. show me a rapist/murderer who gets out on a couple of years jail time. Thank God, God is real and he will punish the wicked, but his idea of wicked is all transgressors not just the rapists and murderers. but he gave his son to pay for the sins that I and you committed in his love, even though he owed us nothing and he was not obligated to do anything to save us. do you actually buy this drivel im starting to think you're a troll | ||
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TechniQ.UK
United Kingdom391 Posts
However thankfully God is not like man, he doesn't change his mind every second, he cannot lie and he never changes. So salvation is dependant on the will of a merciful, graceful, loving, tender-hearted who abounds in love and forgiveness and mercy for sinners. A never changing Father who so loved the world that he gave his own son to die for hell-deserving unrepentant and helpless sinners. The reason Jesus can pay for sins is because he is God's son and is God the son of the trinity. Therefore he is of infinitely more worth than any amount of humans. A normal man could never of died for the sins of the world but God the son becoming a man, taking our sins upon that cross then suffering even the punishments of hell for the human race on that cross. As for the homosexual thing, yes the preacher should cover that, but the way you put it was asif the teenager was getting verbally abused personally by this preacher. Preaching is always done to convict people of sin not out of some malice or anger but out of love that the person would turn from sin and trust Jesus and be saved from everlasting punishment for their wickedness. Jesus was enough to pay the price of sin for all sin however it's only made effectual when someone repents and believes. If it we're any other way then sinners would never accept Jesus and go on living in sin wilfully ignoring Jesus and saying "Look he's paid for it, lets sin more there isn't any punishment at the end!" which would then mean probably people raping and killing people and being as wicked as they liked because heaven was at the end for them anyway. In terms of predestination being Just: Well yes I can explain it. The people arent going to hell not because God has denied them something, but because the love their sin and cherish it and are guilty. Predestination doesn't change the fact that they are guilty of not walking in the light of the law written on their heart and the testimony of nature that God is real. We aren't talking about sinless little heathens all waiting to go to heaven but God is refusing them access, no we're talking about monsters of immorality who hate God, don't look for him, and utterly refuse to walk in the light of their conscious and who when offered the gospel hate it, hate the idea of a Just and Holy God who has laws and rules and hate the gospel and reject it. God owes no one anything, in fact we ALL deserve hell. You should find it a miracle that he has saved millions or even billions of human beings from eternal hell even though they hated him and despised his gospel and we're born and matured into monsters of immorality. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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