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APM

Blogs > Racenilatr
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1 2 Next All
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-08 23:54:37
January 08 2009 22:54 GMT
#1
+ Show Spoiler +
There is always alot of discussion about apm. "Apm doesn't matter" "High apm is spam" and all that other stuff. First of all, Apm is valuable or not valuable in certain situations as is everything. You can't just turn a blind eye to Apm by saying it's not important or anything. For a fact, TvZ and ZvT take up alot of apm. If you don't have enough apm to do the bare fundamentals in those matchups, you will never be able to win unless there is like a HUGE strategic advantage(progamer vs D iccup player or something). In other matchups, like PvP Apm really isn't that important. Sure you need basic apm to macro/multitask and execute the mechanics, but the more important things are what kind of tech you choose, how you conduct your battles, if you have flanking/terrain advantages, and all that strategic stuff.

_Indent_ I am a solid 200-250 apm player. During December 08, I was doing really well and reaching 300 apm at some time. Pause! First off, just because you reach 300 apm doesn't always mean it's spam. I only reach 300 apm from early game spam or during late game when there's alot of stuff to do. I based my game's off 1 strategy, 1 game plan and very little adaptation. There was a problem though: I wasn't using good enough strategy. Sure I could macro like a fiend and multitask fine, but I wasted my troops too carelessly, didn't tech fast enough and didn't make proper strategic decisions. I believe that APM and strategy have a very close relationship with each other.
If you have high apm and low strategy then you are a faggot who spams.
If you have high apm and a high sense of strategy then you are gosu
If you have low apm and low strategy then your a noob
If you have low apm and high strategy then you are almost gosu but not quite there(not enough apm)
Note:This is on a very basic scale. For instance, low apm refers to about 100-150, low strategy is referring to more the D level, high apm is talking about 200+ apm and high strategy is like having B ranking decision making.

_Indent_ People say I have high apm and that I am gosu. Those people are retards. Just because you have high apm, doesn't mean you are gosu. It means that you have potential to become gosu or you are a faggot who spams. Also, let me get something clear:this is what I believe spamming actually is. I like to use bwrepinfo to check apm/eapm right after lots of games I play. If I notice a player has like 270 apm, to decide whether or not that is spam, I look at a couple things. First I look at what their race is. Second I look at their Redundancy. Third I look at their eapm. If for instance I see that the person is a Protoss player who has 270 apm, then I get a wary feeling that he is a spammer faggot. Then I see that he only has like 120-140 eapm. That is a very bad apm:eapm ratio and it usually is like 50%+ redundancy. I have varying apm in the 200's. Sometimes it's like 240 apm and 160 eapm, or 200 apm and 155 eapm, or something like that. There have been only like 2 games that I have played where I have had 300+ apm. I also had arond 180ish eapm. From looking/analysing Progamer's replays, mostly protoss, people like Bisu have like 320 apm and 220 eapm. That is an extremely high amount of eapm. Also their redundancy is in the low 30's. My redundancy ranges from low 30's to high 30's but almost never goes above 45% redundancy. I NEVER get over 50% redundancy. You are just a faggot if you have 300 apm and 50% redundancy because that clearly mean's your an unforgivable spammer. I believe that spamming is only acceptable when you are warming up your fingers, and getting into the game, like mostly early game. Otherwise I really look down on spamming during mid and late game unless its a gay game that each person is waiting for the other to attack or something, like your at 1 base in a contain, and have nothing else to do.

_Indent_I have been trying to streamline my actions lately, making my clicks very precise and fast. It's hard and sometimes I have to pause/slow down for a little bit while I think of what to do. For some reason though, my apm seems to have decreased from this. I have been getting low 200's in games but my eapm has been a consistent 160 throughout most of the game. It goes up to 170ish but never seems to reach 180 or 200 eapm like it used to when I just played macro heavy games with 1 strategy. I have alot of different openings and strategies that I can use, and I can also think about what I'm going to do too. However, as fast as I try to be, I can't be as fast as some people like Bisu. Only very early in the game, but then I start getting slower as the game progresses :/ I guess it just takes practice practice practice with a specific goal in mind(like raising your apm) to actually get it higher.

Note:My beginning might have been good, but I was interrupted and started getting this kind of headache, so my last couple paragraphs might be completely "wtf" need to lie down....also what the hell. I dont even remember what my point of this was. lawl


Big fucking mistake. Pls no one post or anyhting. I prematurely released htis or w\e. i have a major headache and am mentally/physically exhausted atm. I can't post shit and this post was complete shit. Pls no on close it and I will fix it first thing after school

*
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
January 08 2009 22:57 GMT
#2
Lol

You know there have been like 100 threads like this right?
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
January 08 2009 22:59 GMT
#3
kwark 80 apm b-
Hi.
Racenilatr
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States2756 Posts
January 08 2009 22:59 GMT
#4
whoops...edited the part that I said I knew lol. srsly I gotta lie down before I do anything else stupid
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
January 08 2009 23:01 GMT
#5
typing _indent_ just makes it harder to read.
Hi.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24670 Posts
January 08 2009 23:01 GMT
#6
_Indent_ There's really nothing new here. Your simple explanation of the relationship between apm, strategic insight, and skill is reasonable I suppose. I really don't understand your disdain for spammers though. My disdain is for spammers who give you a hard time about the fact that they are spammers...
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
January 08 2009 23:09 GMT
#7
      You should be able to use the code of [ indent ] with no spaces around it in order to indent. About your eapm drop, I think the formula for eapm isn't that good, and eapm often includes a bit of spam.
Force staff is the best item in the game.
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-08 23:12:29
January 08 2009 23:11 GMT
#8
picking up you apm is not always as sign of improvement, you are right about that. I could say for myself that I feel kind a slow especially when it comes to late game and keeping up my macro going, but I was always trying to cut out the spamming and to have 150-200 clean apm, thats the best I can reach atm. Anyway your comments about bisus apm are quite interesting, actually he is the only high apm toss player, but it was not always so. When I watched the 3rd game of bisu vs stork in this china invitational tournament not so long ago KTY was hitting 500 apm multiple times in the late game which is absolutely insane (stork was about 300-320 all the time). but the key is really to optimize your apm to the point where you are actually doing smth good with it. nal_ra was kicking ass with his 150, remember ?
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
January 08 2009 23:22 GMT
#9
ugh not again.
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
January 08 2009 23:25 GMT
#10
On January 09 2009 08:01 d(O.o)a wrote:
typing _indent_ just makes it harder to read.


Yea stop doing that please. I'm trying to read but that's getting on my nerves... I don't get the purpose of it.
Yaqoob
Profile Blog Joined March 2005
Canada3321 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-08 23:26:44
January 08 2009 23:26 GMT
#11
Is this a whole blog on how your not a faggot spammer but someone who is fast because your redundancy never reaches over 45%?

/brag
김택용 Fighting!
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
January 08 2009 23:30 GMT
#12
On January 09 2009 07:59 Racenilatr wrote:
lol. srsly I gotta lie down before I do anything else stupid

gg_hertzz
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
2152 Posts
January 08 2009 23:39 GMT
#13
i don't care about apm anymore, i'm mainly concerned with eapm. i'd like for people to talk about eapm more seriously without it resulting in another apm flame fest.

like you, i'm also a solid 250 apm. However, my eapm has never gone above 142 and usually is 130 or so. I watch my replays and I have no idea where I could spend more eapm as my macro is great, micro is great, i keep up with supplies and everything. I watch fpvods of 'low' apm guys like oov and stork, and they always average 170+, but I can't figure out how the hell they do it. The only thing I've seen that might be the case is that they change screens very fast. But other than that, I don't know how they average 170 and I only average 140 inspite being very similar in apm.

and before you say i spam, yes i do spam, but my macro and micro isn't exactly lagging. I have no idea how I could possibly raise it.
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
January 08 2009 23:43 GMT
#14
Can you write a sentence without making yourself the subject/object?

"I have been trying to this ..."
"Some people say that I am gosu ..."
"I have varying apm ..."

Please put your ego aside and try to write about the subject matter without making the blog entirely about yourself and then maybe you'll bring an interesting perspective to this already over-discussed subject matter.
Moderator
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-08 23:44:31
January 08 2009 23:43 GMT
#15
On January 09 2009 08:39 gg_hertzz wrote:
I watch my replays and I have no idea where I could spend more eapm


I find that after having that problem was I was able to increase it by just giving myself more to do

try playing more risky and really depend on your mechanics to push yourself
if that makes any sense to anyone but me
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
January 08 2009 23:43 GMT
#16
You use the word faggot like it's the cool thing to do.

It's not.
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
January 08 2009 23:46 GMT
#17
On January 09 2009 08:09 CDRdude wrote:
      You should be able to use the code of [ indent ] with no spaces around it in order to indent. About your eapm drop, I think the formula for eapm isn't that good, and eapm often includes a bit of spam.


I agree with this. I'm also wondering exactly how eapm is calculated- for example, multiple move actions could be considered spam, but you could also be muta harassing and/or probe harass (two actions that would involve a heck of a lot of clicking, without changing much.

Hotkey spam is slightly easier to detect, but it still has a purpose (for me, usually figuring out which control group is under attack in the middle of macroing).

So, just like how apm != multitask, and how eapm still != multitask, I'm wondering why looking at two different numbers gives you a better idea of how you play.

Boxer stopped being amazing a while ago because of his multitask ability or his apm- He's still amazing because of the strategies he chooses as well as his sense of timing.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
YianKutKu
Profile Joined January 2009
United States142 Posts
January 08 2009 23:47 GMT
#18
Can someone tell me what eapm is?
hwighting!
anderoo
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-08 23:51:09
January 08 2009 23:50 GMT
#19
On January 09 2009 08:47 YianKutKu wrote:
Can someone tell me what eapm is?


effective actions per minute, or something like that... basically a feature of bwrepinfo trying to tell you what your apm would be if the spam were taken out

although it's method of calculating that number is debatable
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
January 09 2009 00:07 GMT
#20
so this is another thread where a guy with 250 apm is angry cause he's losing to people with <100...hmm...original...
My. Copy. Is. Here.
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