EPT.___.
[msl prelim] - july vs idra
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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anch
United States5457 Posts
but i hope its epic cuz its July vs Idra. nvm its one sided. | ||
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Raithed
China7078 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
On November 28 2008 17:47 anch wrote: maybe there is more, i havent watch it yet. but i hope its epic cuz its July vs Idra. nvm its one sided. Like watching tvz from 2004  | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
Hopefully he can make it to a starleague and/or get invited to some special event! | ||
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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BanZu
United States3329 Posts
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
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Elsi
United Kingdom8173 Posts
you work it out! | ||
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fonger
United Kingdom1218 Posts
I think he executed his strategy well, although there were times when it seemed to me he was more conservative than he needed to be, even vs the god of war. | ||
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Ganfei
Taiwan1439 Posts
On November 28 2008 19:03 fonger wrote: I liked that game. The big fight near July's third could've gone either way IMO. I'm pretty sure those 3 (?) lurkers that were left would've had about 20hp each. A bit more control/luck on Idra's side and it could've turned out very differently. I think he executed his strategy well, although there were times when it seemed to me he was more conservative than he needed to be, even vs the god of war. agreed, i think the reason he lost the fight you mentioned is due to him double stimming within a 2 second timeframe, resulting in all those marines dying to the lurker when they shouldn't have | ||
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benjammin
United States2728 Posts
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dinmsab
Malaysia2246 Posts
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pewpew
United States132 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
He let 6-7 (if that) injured mutas stop his 12-16 mm army from just marching all over julys third in the window before lurkers. He had both vessels and turrets, there was no need to stay back and defend. When he finally did march july had full drone saturation on three bases pumping pure units from many hatches, 5 lurkers already done morphing. No way idra was going to break that with a one base ecco. | ||
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ilistis
United States828 Posts
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Frits
11782 Posts
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Peyong
Trinidad/Tobago119 Posts
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SingletonWilliam
United States664 Posts
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asel
Germany1601 Posts
well played IdrA! | ||
Xeofreestyler
Belgium6774 Posts
keep on going greg | ||
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inlagdsil
Canada957 Posts
But wait. "he stopped the mutas" Holy shit Idra slaughtered July's mutas! GJ Idra, you are improving a lot! | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
Still, remarkable progress. | ||
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
looked like a good game between 2 koreans imo | ||
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Straylight
Canada706 Posts
The failed vulture harass just put him too far behind however. | ||
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
 I mean, a loss to July, does that even count as a loss? | ||
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
He was too slow in moving out. He also seemed to have too few units and too slow of an expansion. That being said, It took JulyZerg 14 minutes to beat an E class terran and he didn't exactly run over IdrA in any fight but the last. Idra definitely got outclassed in every fight. Did you see how bad his marine splits were? You could chalk it up to nervousness if you want, but he still didn't perform. | ||
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Xeofreestyler
Belgium6774 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
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Xeofreestyler
Belgium6774 Posts
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Xeofreestyler
Belgium6774 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
On November 29 2008 10:41 Chef wrote: Idra's build was transparent, and his micro uninspired. Say what you will, but I've always thought Idra was a very boring player to watch. I'm really indifferent to his success... It'd be nice to have a good foreigner in the seen, but at the same time, I don't want it to be Idra. Here's rooting for Nony to get it done. Idra definitely got outclassed in every fight. Did you see how bad his marine splits were? You could chalk it up to nervousness if you want, but he still didn't perform. Yeah such a boring player wouldnt have done a 1 base build while everyone is doing the same double cc builds. What are you talking about? His marine splits were pretty good. He did lose to a better player but he played really well. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
Do you seriously think that build was innovative and interesting? | ||
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ilistis
United States828 Posts
On November 29 2008 12:56 Chef wrote: Everytime he did a marine split, the 5 marines he moved would die without shooting another round... lol. If they were good, he could have won those battles. Do you seriously think that build was innovative and interesting? "sigh" I don't know why you don't want Idra to succeed. Of course you don't have to wish that but still, give him a thumbs up for his improvement at least. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
The only thing i can note is that Idra could have moved out abit faster with his first group. | ||
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
Every split in the video is bad, I don't even need to point a particular one out. He loses EVERY battle, and some of them he should have won. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17733 Posts
On November 29 2008 13:21 KrAzYfoOL wrote: that and him choosing to attack those lurkers with his marines instead of running back to his tanks @ 11:56 He practically had no choice but to fight. He didnt have his nat up so he knows he couldnt remacro a hanbang again and he was running out of time before July's defilers were out. He got a good positioning more reason to stay and fight. If he retreated he would have lost a lot more time, would have lost his tanks and since it was a bridge a lot of his units would get clumped and it would be hard to retreat anyways. Im not the best player but i think his build's goal was to kill July's third gas while he's transitioning to lurkers. His fast irradiates forced July to switch tech. If he moved out faster there would have been a timing where July's eggs were still morphing i think. He was in a terrible position after July blocked it. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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pubbanana
United States3063 Posts
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
On November 29 2008 13:42 Chef wrote: His build's goal was to get a few free kills with a hidden vulture raid (why he lifted it off and moved it). But when July scouted his fast gas, he shouldn't have kept doing it, because now it was guaranteed to fail (since July isn't a retard and has seen the build a million times before). Idra could have gone fast wraiths and at least gotten some harass done, but instead he just decided to keep doing a strat he knew would fail. I don't call that improvement, I call that cracking under the pressure and under-performing. His build had nothing to do with purposely getting 2 bases behind so that he could kill one third... The fact that you think that is hilarious. Alright, lets see you play JulyZerg. Hell, lets see you play IdrA. Don't talk shit unless you have the knowledge to back it up. | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
On November 29 2008 17:52 anotak wrote: Alright, lets see you play JulyZerg. Hell, lets see you play IdrA. Don't talk shit unless you have the knowledge to back it up. Oh come on, if you want to argue his points then do it. Don't just say "I'm not listening to your analysis because you wouldn't stand a chance against top players". So what? A lot of people who don't stand a chance against chess grandmasters can still spot blunders in their games. I'm not saying I agree with Chef's criticisms of idra's play (I haven't watched the game properly). But I don't know why people are so stuck up on "if I can beat you then obviously my game knowledge is better and my words are always more right than yours". | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
On November 29 2008 18:23 Nytefish wrote: Oh come on, if you want to argue his points then do it. Don't just say "I'm not listening to your analysis because you wouldn't stand a chance against top players". So what? A lot of people who don't stand a chance against chess grandmasters can still spot blunders in their games. I'm not saying I agree with Chef's criticisms of idra's play (I haven't watched the game properly). But I don't know why people are so stuck up on "if I can beat you then obviously my game knowledge is better and my words are always more right than yours". His criticisms don't make sense and are unfounded. We can make criticisms of areas of BW we understand at our level, such as IdrA's game vs. Neel... IdrA's armory placement was dumb as shit and costed him the game, simple as that. But here is something more complex and I honestly doubt Chef has anything close a proper understanding of why IdrA lost. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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jgad
Canada899 Posts
"He's on team CJ, but he looks like Bill Gates!!" LOL! | ||
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anotak
United States1537 Posts
On November 29 2008 18:55 HeadBangaa wrote: College is probably starting to look like a better choice. Yeah, losing to a 3 time OSL champion is totally something to quit Starcraft over. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On November 29 2008 19:31 anotak wrote: Yeah, losing to a 3 time OSL champion is totally something to quit Starcraft over. You're right, I'm being hasty. How much money does the loser get paid? | ||
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jgad
Canada899 Posts
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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Nitrogen
United States5345 Posts
On November 29 2008 19:57 jgad wrote: ^ More than he would get paid in college, lol! in fact, it would cost him money, lol! | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
The game kinda made me think that perhaps idra was afraid of july's mutalisks. I have never seen someone get vessals so fast and although his plan failed, he succeeded in totally blocking july's muta harass. You can see that his play isn't as refined as some of the other Korean progamers, but I think he played pretty well. Also, it's amusing how the commentators were joking about how idra might do some super eco build, because of how foreigners focus much more on macro than micro, but then idra went and did a super low eco build. | ||
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jgad
Canada899 Posts
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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jgad
Canada899 Posts
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
On November 29 2008 13:42 Chef wrote: His build's goal was to get a few free kills with a hidden vulture raid (why he lifted it off and moved it). But when July scouted his fast gas, he shouldn't have kept doing it, because now it was guaranteed to fail (since July isn't a retard and has seen the build a million times before). Idra could have gone fast wraiths and at least gotten some harass done, but instead he just decided to keep doing a strat he knew would fail. I don't call that improvement, I call that cracking under the pressure and under-performing. His build had nothing to do with purposely getting 2 bases behind so that he could kill one third... The fact that you think that is hilarious. So because idra's fast gas was scouted, he shouldnt have made a vulture which costs 75 mins. Instead he should have gone for a just as obvious cheese which costs a hell of a lot more and would delay his vessel, despite the fact that July was making 1-2 hydras. What? | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On November 30 2008 02:31 Kuja900 wrote: Low eco games are what july lives for idra made the wrong choice and feared the mutalisks to much. July scouted very early and expanded extremely quickly 2 things he would not have done against a player he thought was on even calibur with him, but he looked down on idra and expecting early cheese things went downhill. That scout would not have came if july thought he was evenly matched, julys perception of idra won him the game. The vultures were a dumb idea after july scouted him (btw insanely nice building placement by july i really liked it), he had VESSELS and stayed in his base fearing like what 6 mutas no reason to not push out and punish july for that very fast 3rd base, which in turn is what july was counting on him not to do. July banked on Idra's inexperience and he made the right call. Not to detract from Idra i think he has great potential but this was not a close game. July's reaction was very much how july usually reacts to fast gas, no matter the opponent. I'm quite sure July's expansion timing was a result of him expecting a mech build (note how he throughs down the hatch _before_ scouting marines.) The reason he wasn't punished for the mistake was of course that idra allowed himself to become contained by 6-7 mutas for just a tad bit too long. And I don't know wtf you are rambling on about when it comes to the scout timing, july scouts that early very often on two player maps. His game vs mind in the first group stage the OSL he won is a fairly good example of how his build this game by no means was a result of "looking down" on idra. Idras build was good, just a bit better control and a bit more confidence and things might have turned out differently. | ||
cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
ppl sayin dumb shit are fucktards.. come on think about it.. its july! the guy who stomped on iloveoov when oov was Jesus Christ on earth TvZ, the guy that has a golden mouse, etc... | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On November 30 2008 04:28 InfeSteD wrote: Greg lost like a Korean imo... good build, good defense, late expo, but the problem here is JulyZerg.. he is too good... ppl sayin dumb shit are fucktards.. come on think about it.. its july! the guy who stomped on iloveoov when oov was Jesus Christ on earth TvZ, the guy that has a golden mouse, etc... The thing is it didn't have to be JulyZerg. The game was lost because of a strategical error that most zergs could have capitalized on. Idra was really far behind the moment that drone scout got into his base. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On November 30 2008 03:49 lgdDante wrote: So because idra's fast gas was scouted, he shouldnt have made a vulture which costs 75 mins. Instead he should have gone for a just as obvious cheese which costs a hell of a lot more and would delay his vessel, despite the fact that July was making 1-2 hydras. What? You can dance around hydras with wraiths... You can't dance around a sunk with a vulture that July knew was coming. Why do people think this build is so innovative lol... It's as old as StarCraft. The only innovative part about it was lifting the factory from his main to prevent a ling scout or whatever from seeing a vult go out the front end... But that cuteness didn't even matter, because July had already scouted the fast gas. The 150 minerals could have gone into a faster expo, or a few more marines. Not two vultures that were destined to do nothing. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On November 30 2008 04:44 Chef wrote: The thing is it didn't have to be JulyZerg. The game was lost because of a strategical error that most zergs could have capitalized on. Idra was really far behind the moment that drone scout got into his base. No. July went 2 hatch muta with vulture proof building placement. July would have went 2 hatch muta with vulture proof building placement if he scouted a wallin as well. If anything the scout was to check for 8 rax. Do you seriously think july would have thought "Yea well, he must be building a cc behind that wall" and then continued pumping drones? No of course not, the scout didnt matter that much. The fact though that you are seriously advocating wraith tech vs 2 hatch lair > den > hydra > spire suggests rather limited tvz experience. Idra was in great shape right until he decided to not attack with a bunch of mm vs 7 muta and 4 hydra. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
If anything the scout was to check for 8 rax. I sincerely doubt it. I'm not going to continue having this argument lol. EDIT: This is why Idra isn't fucking BoxeR: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=65727 | ||
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Texas
Germany2388 Posts
On November 29 2008 19:21 jgad wrote: hero commentators! "He's on team CJ, but he looks like Bill Gates!!" LOL! the handsomeness | ||
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a-game
Canada5106 Posts
On November 29 2008 10:41 Chef wrote: Idra's build was transparent, and his micro uninspired. Say what you will, but I've always thought Idra was a very boring player to watch. I'm really indifferent to his success... It'd be nice to have a good foreigner in the seen, but at the same time, I don't want it to be Idra. Here's rooting for Nony to get it done. Idra definitely got outclassed in every fight. Did you see how bad his marine splits were? You could chalk it up to nervousness if you want, but he still didn't perform. wow... fuck you kid thank you for posting the vid raithed, i had no idea idra had a semi-broadcasted match vs julyzerg the other day. was a good watch, i agree with others that idra's shown a lot of improvement! | ||
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InfeSteD
United States4658 Posts
in the other hand, NonY will fucking rape! :D | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
And regarding his marine splits, they were fine, in almost perfect arcs around the lurkers. What a spread will do is minimize the chance that lurkers will hit multiple marines at once, not completely eliminate the possibility. God damn I hate ignorant blind haters like you. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
His marines splits were bad... I don't know what more proof you want than all his marines dying while killing fuck all. ![[image loading]](http://www.fsinet.or.jp/~sokaisha/rabbit/991017/senbei.JPG) | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
edit: ![[image loading]](http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8477/splitjc4.jpg) I don't know much better you could have split it within a couple of seconds. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
thx | ||
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On December 01 2008 15:14 Rekrul wrote: chef you are clueless and should shut the fuck up thx what he said. | ||
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mog87
United States1586 Posts
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