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Active: 967 users

In Support of Boxer and Two Player Maps

Blogs > thunk
Post a Reply
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-05 06:14:19
October 05 2008 06:01 GMT
#1
I have some work to do, but I'm currently watching the GG.net/TL.net show match and I've been meaning to write this up for a long time now. Needless to say, I don't really feel like working right now.

In Support of Boxer and Two Player Maps

Everyone can relate to famous games on a two player maps. In my mind, (Z)sAviOr versus (P)Nal_rA on Sin Peaks of Baekdu and (T)Sea versus (P)Reach on Hitchhiker both stand out. Two player maps are conductive to some of the better games in Starcraft. The fact that both players knows where the other starts allows for a much different dynamic that allows for some unique games to be played. The fact that both players know exactly where the other starts allows for a broader range of strats, proxies and mindgames.

I want to bring your attention to 3 (or 4) games on the recently deceased Blue Storm, which was just taken out of the map pool.


[image loading]


And, introducing the king of mind games and proxies, (T)SlayerS_`BoxeR`, the Terran Emperor. Even with his reduced practiced time, he has still graces us with innovative play on Blue Storm.


[image loading]


(T)BoxeR versus (T)RuBy on Blue Storm, Proleague 2007






Only on a two player map with (T)BoxeR would this happen. (T)BoxeR proxies, not to roll the dice and try to end the game early, but to make (T)RuBy play more defensively. Ruby prepared for a situation in which (T)BoxeR proxied; it's not like Lim Yo Hwan isn't well known for it. (T)RuBy built his extra marines and scouted the empty base only to find that (T)BoxeR proxied his first and second factories – the empty base was merely a diversion allowing Boxer to get his factories up earlier. Boxer rides this advantage to the end, grabbing his first and eventually second expo earlier and proceeding to end the game with 3 port wraiths.

This type of strategy would only have been possible had there only been two positions. If it had been a 4-player or a 3-player map, (T)RuBy wouldn't have been so scared of the BBS and would have opened much more aggressively, probably leading into mid-game even keel. You can see the frustration on (T)RuBy's face as he realizes that he is playing against a strat that goes far beyond build orders and mechanics.



(T)BoxeR versus (T)HiyA on Blue Storm, Proleague 2007






(T)BoxeR again exploits his tendency to proxy, except (T)HiyA handles it a little better, probably because (T)BoxeR went Mnm, so points go to the Emperor there. (T)HiyA successfully scouts the proxy and successfully defends it. (T)BoxeR keeps an empty base for a large portion of the game, and retains map (T)Control to win the game. The interesting thing about this game is that is is a rudimentary form of (T)BoxeR versus (T)RuBy game. It was played twenty-something days before. You can see the elements of the ingenuity of the game versus (T)RuBy hazily manifest themselves in (T)BoxeR's game versus (T)HiyA: the ability to retain map control, to keep an empty base, and keep the opponent on the defensive. He even goes wraiths, like in his game against (T)RuBy, to cut down on scouting and map control.

Again, this strat was made possible by the two start positions. (T)HiyA's early scout saw (T)BoxeR's empty base and forfeited map control to (T)BoxeR. (T)BoxeR would not have been able to depend on this build if the map were a three or a four player base; just by having an empty base, (T)BoxeR realized that he can get people to play passively instead of aggressively.


[image loading]



(T)Flash and Blue Storm


A lot of lame things have been said about this map, especially in the TvP. The wide open center allows for easy splitting of the map tend to make PvT's very boring. (T)Flash popularized this style by winning with it, and a lot of people hold him personally responsible.


(T)Flash versus (P)JangBi on Blue Storm, Proleague 2007





Both the Terran and the Protoss are to blame for splitting the map like this. It is clear that both (T)Flash and (P)JangBi felt they could win by playing this way. Many felt that PvT on Blue Storm was impossible simply because fast-armory fended of any type of harass and the third is so close and easy. Carriers seemed to be the only option, making all games end up like (T)Flash and (P)JangBi's stalemate. Although this game was played early in (T)Flash's era, when it wasn't as apparent that splitting the map would evolve such games. Death God (P)Anytime proved Protoss can win, perhaps with more than a little bit of multitask and gall, without early game proxies or carriers.


(P)Anytime versus (T)Flash on Blue Storm, GOMTV Star Invite

Anytime versus Flash on Bluestorm, GOMTV link


He really exploited the 2-player nature of the map, scouting early and forcing an early gas and a delayed rax and pushing out 2 zealots before core, forcing (T)Flash to build more marines. The precision of the opening build would have not been permitted on any map but a two player map.

And here I deviate: the reason this game is worth watching because not because it demonstrates tactics exclusive to two player maps. (P)Anytime choses to beat (T)Flash's fast armory build stylistically. You can play for a macro game, stuck in the mindset that you can will in the long run, inevitably drawing the game into a stalemate or you can play like (P)Anytime did. (P)Anytime teched to speed shuttle-reaver telling the fast armory build to go to hell, harassing with multiple shuttles and forcing (T)Flash's army to defend in too many places at once. (P)Anytime variated his build, played slightly differently, and blew a hole in (T)Flash's build.

To a casual observer, two player maps might seem only aesthetically different than one player maps. Two player maps unlock a area of tactics that was previously unavailable. Two player maps allow the players to practice to finer timings and more exact build orders. They also open up a wilder, much more unpredictable mind game, like tricking players into playing defensively. You could see this on past two player maps, like Monty Hall and (T)Bifrost and I have no doubt you will see it on future two player maps as well.


****
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
October 05 2008 06:01 GMT
#2
This write up was kind of hurried and lacked the polish, the depth, and the thoroughness I originally intended to give it. I didn't really have the time to watch more games in more match ups; these games were memorable and they stood out in my mind. I also wanted to write it up before people forget Blue Storm as a map.

There are countless other simple examples though – the nine pool on Blue Storm was common too force the Protoss to build two cannons and the later nexus. See FCUKconnection's sub on the Kwanro versus Kal game.

I will be looking forward to the games on Chupung-Ryeong with great anticipation.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
Realpenguin
Profile Joined December 2006
8250 Posts
October 05 2008 06:24 GMT
#3
Nice writeup.
I also love watching pros on 2 player maps. Cheese is more common, making more entertaining games (at least in my opinion).

Oh, and no mention of Raid Assault? It's definitely going to produce some cool games.
<Wolfpox> i remember when MVP beat that one guy, and everyone was like 'whoa' except that penguin dude.
Narrator
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States868 Posts
October 05 2008 06:34 GMT
#4
Really nice writeup even though, as you said, it seemed hurried. :D

5/5
inlagdsil
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada957 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-05 07:25:40
October 05 2008 07:24 GMT
#5
It's true that it's hurried and there are typos but...

5/5 this was great! I really enjoyed reading your descriptions and analysis. Having the games right there was also really cool.
This post has really made me appreciate mind games more.
There is nothing cuter than a zergling when it has just started taking crack
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
October 05 2008 08:06 GMT
#6
Didnt these games occurred in 2008 not 2007?

I wasnt aware that 2 player maps needed to be defended.
Nice write up.
Jizz
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Australia224 Posts
October 05 2008 09:26 GMT
#7
I hate long drawn out macro fights. its like watching football where the defence rapes the offence.

Also robot players are annoying. Who are really good but rarely cheese and goes for a boring win.
I made this account before i knew what the name meant. I just thought it sounded coooool
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6257 Posts
October 05 2008 11:27 GMT
#8
You are pretty much right, but Boxer doesn't need 2 players map! He pwns on all maps!
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines7582 Posts
October 05 2008 11:46 GMT
#9
Boxer is just great. Haha, being able to get to his opponents minds and all that is really something.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Nyovne
Profile Joined March 2006
Netherlands18896 Posts
October 05 2008 12:14 GMT
#10
Thanks, enjoyed the writeup.
ModeratorFor remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.
MooCow
Profile Joined September 2008
1325 Posts
October 05 2008 17:44 GMT
#11
Enjoyed reading it, very interesting with the thought of having an empty base causes the opponent to play more defensively.
Making history not reliving it.
General Nuke Em
Profile Joined March 2008
United States680 Posts
October 22 2008 05:50 GMT
#12
Nice writeup, although my main problem with 2 player maps is that you tend to see this 1% of the time and the other 99% of the time its LOL I KNO UR START LOCATION DUMB CHEESE GG. Boxer's empty base thing -> other guy playing defensively is definitely a mind game, but the same could have been said for games such as Boxer vs. Oov on rush hour where oov DIDN'T expect such a weird build because of multiple start locations.

For me it boils down to boxer is awesome and can pull crazy shit on any map, 2p or not, while lesser players can do dumb cheeses much more successfully on 2p maps.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18818 Posts
October 22 2008 07:28 GMT
#13
Hurried? We don't care. Nice read!
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Roffles *
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Pitcairn16460 Posts
October 22 2008 07:35 GMT
#14
Great writeup! Everyone loves Boxer and new innovative builds. Heavy macro games tend to get repetitive and boring after a while.
God Bless
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5718 Posts
October 22 2008 09:19 GMT
#15
I completely agree, imo 2 player maps on average make for wayyyyyy better games than 4 player maps or even 3 player maps.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17677 Posts
October 22 2008 10:58 GMT
#16
nice read indeed, another example of flash splitting the map on bs but for tvz is flash vs magma proleague.
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
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