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I was playing chess today and I randomly remembered a quote from bogoljubow.
Here's how it went:
"If I'm white, I win because I'm white. If I'm black, I win because I'm Bogoljubow."
After thinking about this for a moment, I realized that this quote is easily applicable to Starcraft.
Here's what it is in Starcraft:
"If I'm Protoss, I win because I'm Protoss. If I'm terran, I win because I am SiegetanksandBlueGoo."
There seems to be a contradiction here in the fact that I never win as terran without cheese, but ignoring that, let's explore why the other two races dislike Protoss so much.
Why is Protoss such a feared and hated race? Is it because the mechanics are easier to master or because the units themselves are a lot more powerful. Is it due to the complete lack of need for flanking in lower level protoss play or the variety of paths the protoss can take when teching up. Is it just the innate advantage of the Protoss race and the players that gravitate to such a race?
If so, then why are all the top and dominant players Terrans and Zerg? I think someone mentioned this somewhere, but in the top 10 peak elos, only Stork for the Protoss is there. What makes Protoss weak against the other races in the very top ranks? Is it that the Protoss FE is always vulnerable to cheeses like 4 pools, or that the Protoss has a certain peak for PvT. When playing TvP for example, Terrans with more APM can always mine up the map a lot, set up their tanks better, prepare drops and look for timing push openings. As far as Protoss goes, even at the very highest levels, there doesn't seem to be much more in the PvT matchup other than mass units, or good carrier micro.
Maybe this is why Kang Min was so revered. He brought change and a freshness to the highest level protoss players, that no one else has imitated because there is a limit to how good a playercan be at PvT.
Thanks for Reading this. 
Feel free to flame.
 
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I agree. I tink it's because it is the mechanics and how it gives the lower level players an advantage over similar level terrans or zergs
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Zerg and terran benefit more from a super high level of mechanics. Where as protoss doesn't benefit as much.
But protoss is less mechanic demanding. ie units take longer to build and are more expensive.
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protoss requires more thinking and less mechanics thats why its a little easier to play at lower levels where players dont have time to actually practice mechanics
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".. or because the units are more powerful" - I just.. no. Your nick says it all, damn tanks.
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On September 29 2008 06:44 daz wrote:
protoss requires more thinking and less mechanics thats why its a little easier to play at lower levels where players dont have time to actually practice mechanics
in my opinion, playing terran takes just as much thinking.. but whatever
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On September 29 2008 06:43 stanley_ wrote:
Zerg and terran benefit more from a super high level of mechanics. Where as protoss doesn't benefit as much.
But protoss is less mechanic demanding. ie units take longer to build and are more expensive.
This.
And that's a problem, because Protoss will always be the "easy mode" race for most if not all foreigners; it will only stop being a problem once you have 250, maybe even 300+ APM. I.e. once you're fast enough to become a progamer. Then all races are equally playable, and while you could argue that some matchups are maybe slightly imba (T>Z, Z>P, P>T), it's really mostly about map balance and player skill/form/luck. So that's OK. Starcraft is "balanced enough" on pro level, it's probably not worth bitching about certain maps or matchups because all in all each race has a few star players who have won a lot of tournaments or who are at least very close to achieving that (e.g. Stork, the eternal 2nd place).
But for non-progamers, i.e. foreigners especially, mechanics are what determines how easy or hard one race is to play. Foreigners struggle with Terrans because it's too mechanically demanding (Korean pros don't care about that because they all have top-notch mechanics), and there are lots of incredibly strong Protosses because they're much easier in that regard.
Zerg is medium difficulty for foreigners. While they DO require a lot of mechanics/multitasking because of all those units and hatcheries placed all over the map, this is probably because once you have a strong eco and many hatches, you can pump units easily and very fast, and that helps, this makes them easier to play than Terran but still harder than Protoss.
This is a sad situation, but I think it's an intrinsic problem of the 3 races. Protoss have few units and they have lots of hit points, so they will always be the best choice for mechanically "weak" players. Even if SC2 introduces MBS or other things so that Z and T macro becomes less mechanically demanding, because then P players will also have more time, and they'll use that in another area instead (better micro, additional drops, whatever), so they'll still keep their advantage.
I think there's nothing which could change this, unless you do something ridiculous like "Terran and Zerg get MBS, but Protoss does not" -- which would be a funny solution, but too inconsistent and weird, and it also might make Protoss too hard for the pro level then.
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i just hate protoss, nothing else to it
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On September 29 2008 06:25 SiegeTanksandBlueGoo wrote:
there is a limit to how good a playercan be at PvT.
Feel free to flame.
- Stormdrops
- Reaverdrops
No one has used this to the fullest yet, except IntoTheRainBow maybe. And im talking late game, not early.
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fyi: Best and Jangbi are in the top 10 ELO.
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Protoss are hated for one reason.
1a2a3a4a
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high level has less toss cuz you can only 1a2a3a4a5a so many times before people catch on
other than that i hate toss because of storm (i'm a zerg player)
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I don't hate Protoss, but I think it's because the other races see Protoss as taking less overall work. The only thing I hate about Protoss (as a Zerg user) is mass corsair with storm/reaver.. and turtling with mass cannons.
But I find Terran much more annoying. Pretty much every game is the same damn thing, mass mmf with tanks and vessels. At least there's variety with Protoss.
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On September 29 2008 07:58 capek wrote:
fyi: Best and Jangbi are in the top 10 ELO.
He means all-time, not current, though Best does come in at #11 in all-time.
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Sounds like a failed attempt to be Plexa here.
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You know what's ironic is that when I picked protoss it's because I thought terran was imba (tank gayness) and zerg was imba (5pool gayness) so I wanted to pick the weaker race so that I wouldn't be viewed as an imba jackass.
LOLOLOL LOOK HOW WELL THAT TURNED OUT
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Protoss just needs good control
Macro i think, is the easiest for protoss because its cost and expenses are pretty high up there
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Everyone who thinks protoss is so easy is a fucking joke. You can die so fast to stupid shit as a protoss, your scouting and timing has to be so good or else you basically auto die. Lets go over super gay shit for protoss match ups...
PVT:
Terran can easily rape protoss in many different ways. They can camp and be very harrasive and rape the protoss's eco with vultures that cost 75 minerals and you get 3 mines that do 125 dmg with splash. Terrans ability to scan takes all the guessing out of tvp. Or they can do a timing push, based on the imformation they have gathered from SCANNING and completely rape the protoss.
To beat a camping harrassing terran a protoss has to expo quite a bit, and MAKE 100% sure that there is no mines in the path where the probes are getting transferd and that each expo is defended nicely again cheap ass vultures and tank drops, that rape not only 20 probes in about 3 seconds but also kill a nexus in about 30 seconds (2 tanks).
Scouting is so important in this matchup to stop expoing, timing pushes, drops. If a terran cuts scv to push faster and you don't see you lose, if a terran pushes somewhere your not expecting and your out of position gg. If he drops while your not at your base and rapes your eco gg.
And late game with carrier? Unlike terran who gets ground unit upgrade for attack and armor which obviously effects gols as well, protoss has to upgrade carriers. So when your carriers come out it will be 3/3 gols vs 0/0 maybe 0/1 carriers. = rape
PVZ: (THIS IS FOR YOUR ARB SAYING P IS EaSY?!?!?!)
Mid game its pretty easy for protoss im not going to lie, but early game where protoss has to scout everything perfectly, or else he will lose, and even if he does scout a certain tech, he has to disregard it because the zerg can switch tech in like 20 seconds. If you make to many cannons you will be behind mid game and if you dont make enough you will die, You make cannons based on what you scout, but even if you scout it you may have to disregard it.
If protoss doesn't make corsairs then zerg can send his ol's every where and see every little thing a protoss does. And then late game they get these invinsible ultras and crackling that comepltly rape. Crack drops can take out a protoss base in about 15 seconds. And also who came up with SWARM?!?!?!? Defiler's can consume about 3 zerglings that cost in total 150 minerals, and then swarm which is basicaly an auto kill of an expo even if it is protected by 999999 cannons.
Protoss has to guess a lot and actually use game sense unlike terran who can scan and see anything he wants anytime he wants, and zerg who can send his overlord's all over the map and scout everthing at once for the entire game.
If you ask me zerg and terran are easy.
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On September 29 2008 09:54 nAi.PrOtOsS wrote:
Everyone who thinks protoss is so easy is a fucking joke.
I think no one really says that, only that they're easiER (than Z or T). :p
Every race is hard to play well, but Ps are more likely to have more success at the non-pro levels, so a dedicated P player will reach the top faster than a dedicated Z or T player -- at least the top foreign level, it's probably not true for Korean pros (I guess it's still Terran there because T is much easier once your mechanics are ridiculously good, and there are still so many Terran progamers it's ridiculous (and in the foreign scene there are tons of Protosses instead, surprise surprise)).
and MAKE 100% sure that there is no mines in the path where the probes are getting transferd
Workers don't trigger mines.
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EPT
