• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:36
CET 02:36
KST 10:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win42025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Could we add "Avoid Matchup" Feature for rankgame RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" The New Patch Killed Mech! Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou
Tourneys
Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
Ladder Map Matchup Stats BW General Discussion BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION ASL final tickets help
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Analysis of the Trump-Lee S…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Certified Crazy
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1215 users

Back in the USSR

Blogs > RST
Post a Reply
RST
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia13 Posts
September 18 2008 13:55 GMT
#1
G'day,
This is my second blog post, and today the topic is the Georgia region, which has been open to a lot of debate and argument lately between big nations with nuclear arsenals, namely our good friends the US and Russia.

The story goes thus: In 1992, after the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union following losses in Afghanistan and a general disillusion throughout traditional and ethnically drawn states, a country called Georgia emerged. Georgia briefly existed as a democratic nation in the 1920s.
The new country of Georgia has a population of 4.4 million approximately. 84% of these are Georgian ethnicity.
However, in 1992, two regions of Georgia, Abkhazia and Ossetia, declared that they would prefer to side with the Russian Federation, newly democratic, nevertheless with a parliament filled by ex-KGB men.

Under UN law, Georgia had sovereignty over these areas, and despite their quest for independence, were never recognised as separate states nor countries.
However, building up this year was tension, especially in the South Ossetian region. Ossetia is divided into two parts, the North exists in Russia, the South in Georgia. South Ossetians carry Russian passports, they are Russians in everything but name, and in this region, and in Abkhazia, local militia were building up to create strikeforces that had the Georgians worried.

So, technically exercising his legal right, the President of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvili (one of the members responsible in part for the 2003 Rose Revolution - a bloodless change of power following civil unrest), sent Georgian troops, numbering just over 1000 as I recall in total numbers, flying only 7 jet planes, and having perhaps 300 APV, into the South Ossetian region, trying to take back what was his. The Russians did not agree, and invaded Georgia. Not only did they invade it, they practically decimated it, drawing criticism from World Leaders, particularly the United States.

All this stuff is fairly background, but I want to discuss exactly what Russia's motives in this are, and what the US and Western world are trying to achieve also.
Last year, Russia got a new President, Dmitri Medvedev. The previous president, Vladimir Putin, one of Russia's most loved leaders, was able to transition from this role to Prime Minister.
Originally in the conflict, we did not see much of Medvedev. On the television, responding to Saakashvili's bravado filled and not entirely bright speeches, was Vladimir Putin. By the rules of the Russian democracy, Putin has served all the terms applied to him as President that he can, in a row. However, he can reapply from a position like Prime Minister.
Now this has me, and a lot of other people, suspicious to his motives. Putin is ex-KGB, like many of the Federation's leaders, and has been critical of the United States for a long time. Medvedev is young, he won in a landslide backed by Putin, and it seems as if perhaps he is only playing the role of caretaker/puppet for Putin.

However, lo and behold, a little while later, and into now, Medvedev has taken control, which is a positive sign, but it doesn't destroy doubt.
What does Russia have to gain from attacking Georgia? Were they merely overzealous in their attempt to defend the right to sovereignty? I don't really think so.
They went in, and they went in hard. The Russians at their disposition had, if memory serves me correctly, 44000 footmen, and over 1000 tanks and jet fighters. They came closer and closer to the Georgian capital, and took a vital city, Goti, that patched resources from the Caspian to the capital, which I'll also get to in a moment.

I personally think that this is obviously a statement of Russian military might. They were looking for an excuse. Russia is huge, and has a fair amount of the world's nuclear weapons, second to the US, and although they've signed the non-proliferation treaty, doubts are cast, in the same case as the US if the nukes are being rid of. Is Putin trying to reassemble some kind of former glory to Russia, despite its size being relatively forgotten, except in the gold and oil industries.

Russia has since defied NATO, and along with Nicaragua, a country that hates America with a Hugo Chavez inspired passion, recognised both Ossetia and Abkhazia as separate entities to Georgia. And whilst this is happening, the United States aren't willing to get involved, save to provide resources, but along with Britain are condemning the action. Meanwhile, Saakashvili is still brazenly calling out the Russians to duel, thinking in his deluded little fantasy world that the Americans will bring in the heavy stuff. Which is getting him into more trouble that he should want to handle.

So now, I want to look at the Western view on these events. America, a nation famous for war, isn't doing a thing, despite all the media hullabaloo that this would be a new Cold War, and despite comparisons to Poland in World War II, or Belgium in World War I. Instead, they're campaigning to NATO, they're campaigning in the UN, they're disagreeing with a war based in ethnicity and reasonable conflict, all the while fighting a war that doesn't belong to them in Iraq, without heeding a word from the UN. Why hasn't this become a war of ideals on the same scale as the Cold War? There's as much, or even greater reason for this to blow up into something big.
Especially when you consider that the Georgians are responsible for oil pipelines that fuel Europe and are part of a transport link to the US. I'm puzzled at why exactly the US isn't doing anything, although we must commend them on their 1 billion dollar rebuilding fund.

Perhaps the Americans have become sick of war. Perhaps they're afraid of the Russians. American Foreign Policy once again baffles me.
I think perhaps that they don't want to directly draw the Russians out, and despite the refreshing nature of a lack of US involvement, perhaps troop deployment has been misappropriated. This almost certainly proves as a victory for Russia. They achieved their goals, Georgia didn't offer much of a fight, and it exposed an assertive Russia that doesn't have to listen to NATO or the UN in its aggressive foreign policy.

Georgia is a multi layered issue. Personally, I think the right to demand Georgia's sovereignty over Ossetia and Abkhazia is granted, but in consideration wasn't a smart move. Russia was jumping at the seams for a chance to prove themselves on a world stage as that old ruthless enemy we love to hate, and Saakashvili's constant "draw them out then hide away" business brought a large amount of destruction and loss on his own nation, which shouldn't endear him to his people. At the same time, Ossetia and Abkhazia have the right to ask for independence, although why is questionable in this immensely globalised society that only deals in absolute currencies, and obviously the usage of militia was not an intelligent and diplomatic method of getting their desire. The Russians have been only vaguely following the six step plan, without any real economic restrictions or any kind of punishment allotted to them by the Western Hemisphere, despite England and America constantly badgering Russia to withdraw entirely, and this is a sign that Russia is perhaps not out of the ring yet, and could still be a potential area to watch in the future.

I wrote this at about 11 at night, so if I'm rambling on about the obvious, please forgive me...I felt like writing about this topic, and I wasn't sure when I'd feel this urgent, so I apologise for its crappiness.

****
Tonkerchen
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
680 Posts
September 18 2008 15:06 GMT
#2
First I thought it would be smth with the Beatles
The time is just an illusion... created by mankind... /// Lee Young Ho last Bonjwa on earth! /// «I'll... destroy everyone in 2009. Ok...? Thank you.» - Ma Jae Yoon - Maestro Of Zerg
Krohm
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1857 Posts
September 18 2008 15:27 GMT
#3
On September 19 2008 00:06 Tonkerchen wrote:
First I thought it would be smth with the Beatles

Posts like these really bother me when you put a lot of thought, and effort into your blogs.




Anyways, you're right about a few things. The US won't get directly involved, because well that means getting in the way of Russia. Neither country could afford a war with each other. Also I'm fairly sure that would spell doom for everyone near the two power houses.

Russia does, what Russia wants to do pretty much.
Not bad for a cat toy.
jello_biafra
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United Kingdom6638 Posts
September 18 2008 16:33 GMT
#4
Russia does what it wants in it's own sphere of influence but outside of that this war has changed very little. I highly doubt the US and other western countries are intimidated by Russia's invasion of Georgia, a country many times smaller than it and with barely a military to speak of that still managed to take down a number of Russian planes with their crippled anti-air defences.

The US and the UK have no reason to go to war with Russia over this Georgia affair, it just isn't worth it. And if some kind of nuclear war did begin between Russia and the US then it would be a rather one sided affair as the Americans have been keeping all missiles and submarines in top shape while building new ones and making improvements while Russia's missiles have been left to fester for the better part of 25 years and in recent tests the majority of their submarine based missiles failed to fire. And then there's also the issue of Russia not having trained any new sailors to actually use these submarines in the first place.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions | aka Probert[PaiN] @ iccup / godlikeparagon @ twitch | my BW stream: http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/jello_biafra
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32277 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-18 16:45:32
September 18 2008 16:45 GMT
#5
Thanks, this was a good read. I'm kind of puzzled myself as why the States didn't intervene. I guess it might have to do with the elections coming and the "political change" they are suffering in terms of external policies. edit: And maybe their economy too.
Moderator<:3-/-<
Dyllyn
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Singapore670 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-18 16:53:49
September 18 2008 16:50 GMT
#6


on a serious note, the States won't intervene probably because they don't really want to piss russia off.. those guys do have a lot of oil and gas, and it seems like that's all that matters these days

some of it probably goes back to the state of the economy... i dunno
scv rush ftw
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
September 18 2008 16:54 GMT
#7
To go to war with Russia would require a draft, a significant change of troop deployment. I imagine the 80,000 troops in Germany, and 40,000 in Japan would have to be set for Russia. The problem with Russia is, how do you go to war with it if you were the USA. The two options are naval amphibious assault or invasion from Europe.

If you do the Naval assault, you're attacking the part of Russia that takes the longest route to Moscow. By that time, we're not sure if Russia's retaliation would be non-nuclear, and that is a problem.
If you go through Europe, you're starting a world war, which is not something, even we warmongering Americans want.

American diplomats just hope to surround Russia with Nato and allies so that in time they'll subdue themselves and we can have peace in Asia. They see that as American Hegemony, which is why all the muscle flexing still.
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
Random()
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
September 18 2008 17:13 GMT
#8
On September 18 2008 22:55 RST wrote:
Mikheil Saakashvili sent Georgian troops, numbering just over 1000 as I recall in total numbers, flying only 7 jet planes, and having perhaps 300 APV, into the South Ossetian region, trying to take back what was his. The Russians did not agree, and invaded Georgia. Not only did they invade it, they practically decimated it, drawing criticism from World Leaders, particularly the United States.


Saakashvili ordered an artillery bombardment of a civilian target (Tskhinvali) hours after signing the non-aggression pact. Several Russian peacekeepers were killed during this attack. Tskhinvali was literally destroyed. Not by Russians, but by Georgian troops.
Random()
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-18 17:47:55
September 18 2008 17:43 GMT
#9
You're incredibly naive if you think that Russia's military muscle-flexing is all there is to this story.

Saakashvili's actions that have led to the escalation of the conflict were very much provoked by the American administration themselves. Americans have expressed their support to Mr Saakashvili, in such a way that he lost himself thinking that that means he can do whatever he wants. He attacked Tskhinvali, expecting that Russia would be afraid to retaliate against the wannabe NATO member. Russia was in a catch 22 situation: either let him do what he wants and lose face (because Russia openly supported Ossetians and because Russian soldiers were killed in the attack), or put Saakashvili in his place and present the West with such a nice occasion to launch their propaganda and paint Russia as a monster who eats its small neighbours for fun.

Both sides can pull some laws to justify their actions, and US likes to play the World Police and admonishes Russia, while sending ships to Iran's borders and violating Pakistan's airspace. Nothing new in that.
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
September 18 2008 18:09 GMT
#10
Ya, the Georgians did instigate the attack. Saakashvili was educated at Columbia University after all (cough puppet) and they do have a strong lobby (cough McCain's foreign policy advisor cough) and a toy army made up of US forces. They did attack and kill a large amount of civilians and Russian peacekeepers. Anybody with a basic knowledge of the internet would be able to tell there's a large russian tank force right next to Ossetia. Clearly the Georgians instigated this, and clearly the Russians used it to send a message to the West. I mean Nato is North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and Georgia is nowhere near the Atlantic.
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
[Fin]Vittu
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada507 Posts
September 18 2008 18:52 GMT
#11
Is it because of the war in the Middle East that the Americans are deploying troops? I can imagine that they will have to fight two wars, double the supply to send and for all we know, if there is American involvement, tension can only increase?
The "Finnish Metal Terran"
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51491 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-09-19 07:55:51
September 19 2008 01:14 GMT
#12
hullo
good blog my friend
Commentator
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D2
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 117
CosmosSc2 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 715
yabsab 42
NaDa 30
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm71
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m1391
Foxcn168
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1906
Other Games
summit1g13738
Grubby2382
Day[9].tv547
JimRising 279
ViBE184
Maynarde150
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick905
BasetradeTV53
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH76
• Hupsaiya 57
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21656
League of Legends
• Doublelift4197
• Stunt282
Other Games
• Scarra827
• Day9tv547
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
7h 24m
OSC
10h 24m
Harstem vs SKillous
Gerald vs Spirit
Krystianer vs TriGGeR
Cham vs Ryung
CrankTV Team League
11h 24m
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
Replay Cast
1d 8h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 10h
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
Epic.LAN
1d 10h
CrankTV Team League
1d 11h
BASILISK vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL Team A[vengers]
3 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.