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United States24615 Posts
I think it would be nice if you put some keywords like 'carrier'/'carriers' and 'blue storm' in the thread title, but I think it's very cool that you did this. If I didn't refuse to play blue storm I'd be all over this in a hurry.
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On August 30 2008 03:04 micronesia wrote:
I think it would be nice if you put some keywords like 'carrier'/'carriers' and 'blue storm' in the thread title, but I think it's very cool that you did this. If I didn't refuse to play blue storm I'd be all over this in a hurry.
I agree, alltough I'm a terran player. 
Blue storm is my hate map...
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8748 Posts
oops yeah i always try to put care into my titles to make them appropriate, but i sped through this one t.t
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Calgary25970 Posts
Lemme know how you want it renamed!
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Nice, might have to try something like this against my terran friends.
BTW, Nony, I saw the vod of the game i'm assuming you're referring to. If you haven't seen the vod, don't read the spoiler.
+ Show Spoiler +Congrats on the win! Glad to see the foreigners starting to take games against the pros.
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8748 Posts
[Replay]Build Template - PvT Carriers @ Blue Storm
that'd probably be fine, thanks!
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8748 Posts
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I lol'd
good job on the execution of the build
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+ Show Spoiler +Damn Nony you probably got that guy doing something lower than dishes  Y U SO MEAN
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I guess you have watched the commentary on your own game Nony. What do you think of Daniel Lee's comments? E.g. not being aggressive enough with the reaver, revealing carriers too early etc.
This isn't to provoke some confrontation between you and "SuperDaniel", I would just like to know your thoughts on his thoughts on your game.... : ]
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Well thanks a lot. I'm going to use this next time. I just wished there was somebody doing this for Terran as well..
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On August 30 2008 03:38 Elric_ wrote:
I guess you have watched the commentary on your own game Nony. What do you think of Daniel Lee's comments? E.g. not being aggressive enough with the reaver, revealing carriers too early etc.
This isn't to provoke some confrontation between you and "SuperDaniel", I would just like to know your thoughts on his thoughts on your game.... : ]
I'm sure he loves the opportunity to hear criticism from a very experienced voice. it is a huge privilege(sp?), I am infinitely envious!
2nding what Valtyr said in his spoiler. Thanks for this nony
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United States10774 Posts
Awsome, very nice job nony.
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8748 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [spirit match] +i absolutely hate losing the shuttle or the reaver. i take free shots if i can, but i never go on a suicide mission. that's part of my build. there are some builds that allow riskier shuttles. i knew he had turrets. i saw 1 tank + vults there to follow my shuttle around, which means he has at least 1 tank sieged at each base. my only option is to suicide a zeal in order to get 1 scarab off. armory was done so 2 goliaths could pop out at any time and eat up my shuttle. so really, i could trade 1 zealot and let my reaver get damaged in order to kill 1 or 2 vults, or maybe 2-3 scv's, but going for scv's means putting my shuttle behind the facs and so im gambling the entire package.
but daniel lee made a great point about starcraft players loving to do the things they're good at and ignoring all else. i've realized that already and so i purposely do strats that emphasize my weak points so that i can improve them. hell, getting 4 nexus with only 4 gateways is something i'd be scared as hell doing 6 months ago, but i've forced myself to play different styles of pvt and it has paid off.
hiding carriers away from main army... that's probably a good idea. but in a game like that, im assuming the terran knows im getting carriers. flash build w/ 3 scanners means the terran knows everything about the toss. but scanning blinking stargates doesn't reveal the exact timing of them, whereas flying them out w/ your main army as soon as they're done will let the terran know exactly what he's up against. watching the rep, it probably would have been better to fly the carriers south and then west, and show them first by attacking his natural.
my two biggest self-criticisms that could make a huge difference:
--not putting units on his high ground by 11:00. i guess his vulture presence made me feel like leaving my units on my side. but that feeling was entirely wrong. i could easily take his high ground and remain in no danger from vulture raids. the replay in this blog shows me putting my units on opponent's high ground, and it's very smart
--sucking at pouring in reinforcements after the first big clash. luckily i was really far ahead, but this could have lost me the game if it was close. i should have units attacking his corner base as soon as i break the middle. gateways should produce non-stop and new units shouldn't stop running until they're on offense.
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+ Show Spoiler +I would have loved to see some storms to compliment your carriers. Overall great game, and definitely an enjoyable watch. You never gave him the chance to go on the offensive, even with your defensive early game and shuttle play. Safe and very effective.
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+ Show Spoiler +Wow Nony I'm really impressed on how you handled your game and afterwards, usually a high level gamer would just go "yeah I'm awesome" and leave it at that but to see you humble yourself and show that you're eager to improve I really like that. +1 Nony Fan
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Dude you are freak. gl on next spirit match, i wish i can see you a lot more times against these PROs
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this sounds awesome, can't wait to get home and check it out
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HOT.
WILL WATCH MULTIPLE TIMES.
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awesome to read your opinion on his commentary, well played
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Nony. I doubt it means much but I am very proud of you. Beating very good terrans is the hardest thing for anyrace. Congradulations!
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NonY you make me wave my American flag 1000 times more than Micheal Phelps ever could!
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I'm curious, Nony...are you interested in actually going pro over in Korea?
+ Show Spoiler +Congratulations on the game, btw. It made my day seeing you take down a progamer...and a Lecaf one at that.
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On August 30 2008 11:18 PH wrote:I'm curious, Nony...are you interested in actually going pro over in Korea? + Show Spoiler +Congratulations on the game, btw. It made my day seeing you take down a progamer...and a Lecaf one at that.
i asked him that a while ago, and he said yes. whish is good.
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Nony has, is, and always will be my fave foreign toss, so if he wants to go to korea, go fucking for it!
EDIT: Not that he needed my approval but..
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1-Is it ok to skip reavers? (I don't like 2 Base-Reaver builds)
2-(General question for BS) If Terran splits map with a lot golies/turrets/tanks etc. how do you suppose to break it, just simply keep searching weak points with carriers?
3-Is this build solid against 2 fac openings in BS? (Since your scouting is denied, you can not know wtf is he doing)
Can not watch the spirit vod (It is not buffering at all), after i'll watch, surely i'll have more questions.
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United States11637 Posts
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NonY, you're the first foreign pro that I was introduced too and you have been my favorite ever since. Hopefully we'll be seeing you in Korea. =)
NonY FIGHTING!!!!
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8748 Posts
yeah i want to go to korea and be in a starleague!
hyperionnn-
1 and 3 are the same question. you need to build the robo at that time and head toward shuttle/reaver asap in order to survive a 2fact. if he is going for upgraded vult sneak (no siege tanks), you have to build a pylon wall outside your natural to stop them. i like to build 1 pylon outside my natural when im at 33 supply, just to get the wall started, since there isn't really a better place to build that pylon anyway.
2: yes, carriers overcome. that's the strength of this build. a 2 base carrier build is about timing and catching the terran off guard. this carrier build is about brute strength carriers. it's only when you're just kind of macroing and then suddenly decide "i need carriers" or "i can get carriers" that there's a chance they won't be able to overcome. having a specific plan like this build will make all the difference
thanks to everyone for supportive comments!
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Well I'm gonna get this rep asap and attempt to try it.
Great victory and when you can you really should make a Protoss guide with all your compiled stuff etc, I know it will make a bunch of us ecstatic. 
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From your point of view as a Protoss, what can a Terran do to overcome this strategy? What are you afraid of, apart from early rushes?
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Wow thanks Nony!! Lately i was failing badly at pvt espesialy on blue storm nothing worked i did... went like 35-40% ratio in pvt and my pvz and zvp were on 60-65% just was so damn pissed how terran can camp in middle and everything i do just fails.
I tried this bo on longinus and looks preety damn solid . I was even 2 fact rushed too 3 tanks 5 marines mass vults speed with mine survived even without the reaver and was maxed around 14 min
Thanks again!!
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On August 30 2008 22:40 NonY[rC] wrote:
yeah i want to go to korea and be in a starleague!
Best of luck then...among foreigners, you're my favorite. How fucking cool would it be to see Nony on the list of OSL champions?
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8748 Posts
d1v, sorry im not very good at knowing what the terran ought to do. my only losses have come when i make obvious mistakes, like microing units poorly for a key battle, or from sucking at macro (ignoring gateways for a period of time, or sending probes slowly, etc). i think this kind of gameplan really leaves it to the abilities of the players to simply play bw without mind games or hard counters or anything, and just battle it out. if the terran slips up in macro, or puts his units in bad positioning, or gets surprised, then he'll lose. and the exact same is true for the toss. if both play really well, then it's gonna be an epic long game... though i'd have to say, i'd expect the 3-3 carriers to win in the end, just cuz it's blue storm.
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On August 31 2008 04:10 NonY[rC] wrote:
d1v, sorry im not very good at knowing what the terran ought to do. my only losses have come when i make obvious mistakes, like microing units poorly for a key battle, or from sucking at macro (ignoring gateways for a period of time, or sending probes slowly, etc). i think this kind of gameplan really leaves it to the abilities of the players to simply play bw without mind games or hard counters or anything, and just battle it out. if the terran slips up in macro, or puts his units in bad positioning, or gets surprised, then he'll lose. and the exact same is true for the toss. if both play really well, then it's gonna be an epic long game... though i'd have to say, i'd expect the 3-3 carriers to win in the end, just cuz it's blue storm.
Alright, I see, thanks for the response. Your build really seems to be very stable, so indeed, no hard countering possible. What do you think of massive Dropship usage?
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I've been a long time fan of yours, Nony, and it was great to see you beat a Korean like that. Keep it up, it would be amazing to see you go to Korea.
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8748 Posts
dropships could be useful but they're pretty unusual for blue storm. the protoss would adjust by getting more goons, cannons, and slower carriers.
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Nony's the BEST.
but do you have any more replays of you doing this build? I'd like to see how you'd respond to say, MnM rush if you scout it, or exactly how you'd respond to a 2 fac (would you counter his base his JF, or defend the push with reavers), or a 6 fac timing push, etc.
Thanks a lot. :D
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8748 Posts
i'm not gonna release more reps or say how to handle stuff. as it is now, the info i have given out is 100% useless to my opponents. they can watch the rep and think "well if i have no offense and my econ is slow, then i'll get raped!" but if i say things like "if i see X at Y time, then i do Z in response" then they have useful info. anyway, such in-depth advice stifles the player's own ability to solve problems.
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mhm, just tried this build a couple times. I'm sure I can make it work if I had better reaver micro against tanks. ><
Anyone have a UMS map or something that practices reaver micro?
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Here's some more questions
1-Is it good to proxy (Like hiding between 3rd base and 4rd base) your stargates against comsat and for shit like that? (Yes, if they scan cyber core spinning, they should know what's going on)
2-Do you need storms to fight a lot of golies (Daniel mentioned them), or just 3-3 carriers to soften his things and kill his army with goon/carrier/zealot?
Thanks a lot for answers.
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8748 Posts
hiding stargates would be a nice addition to the build, yeah
i dont like to get storm for this situation. i like to put all my gas toward more carriers (sometimes 5 or 6 stargates) and upgrades. in some games i like to keep a shuttle with reavers on hand at all times, since they are really good when attacking an area that is likely to only have turrets/goliaths/scv's (6:00 or 12:00 base, or his natural)
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EPT
I'd be posting this in the Strategy section if I wanted to write a guide, but I just want to throw a replay up, so here it is in my blog.
