EPTCheese Classification - Page 2
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FragKrag
United States11549 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
It definitely is an all-in, like zulu said. If you consider all-ins cheese then I guess it is | ||
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zobz
Canada2175 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9103 Posts
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Xiberia
Sweden634 Posts
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
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qet
Australia244 Posts
weakness (detect, splash, bugs, etc) , using cheap low-skill units, which usually wins the game. also a cheese is often unusual or else everyone expects and defends for it. eg: a few dts against a terran with no scanner/acad/mines/vessel can win the game. the attack required no skill, and did not show that the attacker is necessarily a better player, yet he will win. cheese. same again with a quick 2 lurk drop. its GG yet the zerg doesn't have to do anything, except drop the lurks and burrow. any player who wins with less resources, less units, less apm, has probably cheesed and may not win overall if many games are played. so yeah, 3 hat ling to me is just a normal attack. no way it could be a cheese. and i disagree with the idea of "all-in = cheese". they are different words, and have different meanings. cheese is low-cost and doesn't lose the game when it fails. all-in is high risk and high cost - by definition if the all-in fails, you will very likely lose the game. the 3hat ling is more of an all-in than a cheese to me, but i think it's neither. On July 05 2008 19:14 HeadBangaa wrote: The concept of "cheese" is dumb. Everything is scoutable and counterable. to play sc and win, you must play to defend against only the most common attacks. you cannot scout and defend against every possible strategy. so long as the fog of war remains, the concept of cheese exists. | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
(Apart from this one of course) -noun 1. the curd of milk separated from the whey and prepared in many ways as a food. 2. a definite mass of this substance, often in the shape of a wheel or cylinder. 3. something of similar shape or consistency, as a mass of pomace in cider-making. 4. Informal. partly digested milk curds sometimes spit up by infants. 5. cheeses, any of several mallows, esp. Malva neglecta, a sprawling,weedy plant having small lavender or white flowers and round, flat, segmented fruits thought to resemble little wheels of cheese. 6. Slang: Vulgar. smegma. 7. Metalworking. a. a transverse section cut from an ingot, as for making into a tire. b. an ingot or billet made into a convex, circular form by blows at the ends. 8. a low curtsy. –verb (used without object) 9. Informal. (of infants) to spit up partly digested milk curds. –verb (used with object) 10. Metalworking. to forge (an ingot or billet) into a cheese. | ||
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
On July 05 2008 20:17 qet wrote: eg: a few dts against a terran with no scanner/acad/mines/vessel can win the game. the attack required no skill, and did not show that the attacker is necessarily a better player, yet he will win. cheese. Well, if he scouted it he actually did a good job. Had a progamer done this you'd call it "great timing" or "great game sense". It's the fault of the Terran not to have mines, scan or turrets up in time. I mean SC still has a small element of strategy in it, and when you see your enemy has a weakness you try to exploit it ASAP. I don't see why this should mean something like this takes no skill, just because you don't need 400 APM to pull it off. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
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MiniRoman
Canada3953 Posts
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KwarK
United States42295 Posts
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
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KwarK
United States42295 Posts
It was allin and it was rather lame. But his strategy was vulnerable and greedy and I knew when I saw it that I could take the win and there was nothing he could do. To do anything other than "cheese" in that situation would be retarded. When faced with a choice between winning and not winning cheese doesn't come into it. | ||
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KwarK
United States42295 Posts
On July 06 2008 01:39 Hypnosis wrote: its total fucking cheese, what can you do if it fails? not alot. Reaver harass PvP is cheese. When your shuttle gets shot down you're pretty much fucked. See BeSt vs Much on Hwarangdo. Therefore reaver harass is so risky it's allin and is therefore cheese. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
On July 05 2008 20:17 qet wrote: to play sc and win, you must play to defend against only the most common attacks. you cannot scout and defend against every possible strategy. so long as the fog of war remains, the concept of cheese exists. Uhh, yes, you can scout and defend against every possible strategy. If you're scouting a Protoss and you see only 1 pylon in his base several minutes in, you can assume proxy. If you scout a Zerg a minute in and he's got only 5 drones, you also know lings are arriving early. If you scout Terran PvT and he takes gas very late, there might be another barracks on the map. Blindly assuming that your opponent is going to be conventional is a compensation for your inability to infer the status of the game at any given time. Exploiting this weakness is an exertion of higher skill by the opponent, or a stroke of luck (sure luck happens; I random-to-4pool tons). But there's no need for the derogatory "cheese" label. | ||
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
I see there are more opinions on what is cheese than I thought. :> It's a useless debate. My view is that ONLY very fast rushes are cheese. Like: proxy gate/rax, bunker rush, sunken rush, 4-6 pool, SCV rush, cannon rush, and to a certain extent also manner pylon or gas steal. | ||
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KwarK
United States42295 Posts
On July 06 2008 02:06 0xDEADBEEF wrote: Harass is cheese? o_O I see there are more opinions on what is cheese than I thought. :> It's a useless debate. My view is that ONLY very fast rushes are cheese. Like: proxy gate/rax, bunker rush, sunken rush, 4-6 pool, SCV rush, cannon rush, and to a certain extent also manner pylon or gas steal. My view is the same. My point about harass was that if risk makes something cheese then reaver harass is up there with 4 pool. | ||
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Steelflight-Rx
United States1389 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
so whether an opponent is cheesing definitely depends on their intent, but generally 3hat ling with no econ or other tech is cheese | ||
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