• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:50
CEST 20:50
KST 03:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon100Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9
StarCraft 2
General
SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 8/8 Yamato Cup Series StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Has online-only competition during the pandemic changed your enjoyment of pro SC2?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall KSL Week #92
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! Syncronization issues and can't find games Remastered crash fix suggestions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Post Your Watch!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9690 users

TSL Musings

Blogs > zer0das
Post a Reply
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-04-09 06:40:33
April 09 2008 06:37 GMT
#1
I've never ever played competitive Starcraft until the past week. I usually stuck to playing with a friend and when he couldn't play, US East (yeah, yeah). He used to beat me all the time... like 95%. Eventually my APM increased from around 75 or so to about 90-95 on average. I still didn't win, but 2-3 months down the road something clicked and I beat him about 75% of the time now.

Within the past two weeks my apm rose another 10 or so to 105 as Protoss (my main race). So I decided to dive into Iccup partly due to TSL and see how I fared.

I went 1-7 the first 8 games. I did win my second game, but it was pretty atrocious. Two things became clear: players are quite a bit smarter than on bnet, and my PvP is atrocious.

First game- a loss in a game I should have won. The guy was zerg and straight teched to hive. I killed his third expo but he sent a ton of lings and ultras to my natural and mauled me because I made too many goons. He pressured me a lot with lings early so I couldn't really scout, and I figured he was going hydra. He only had 68 apm.

Eventually I started winning and I'm currently 14-19, with most of the wins coming in my past 10 games or so. I still suck atrociously at PvP (I've probably played all of five PvP's against my friend since we random, and we've gotten maybe 5 mirrors in 200 games). I either die to zealot rushes rather quickly (after losing to the guy with 68 apm, I lost to a Protoss with 62 apm... how does someone with few actions beat me with a zealot rush? >.< ) or I'm too conservative and I get rolled by dragoons. In the event I survive that far the guy has probably suicided all his troops to kill my cannons so his dts can rape me. My observers never, ever pop in time to deal with dts (hence why I started going cannons). I honestly cannot figure this matchup out, and I thought I had a decent grasp of it (although I know in practice it has always been my weak point).

My PvT is quite a bit better, but I still struggle to scrap together a win. Terrans seems to be much more aggressive and though I can usually secure a third expansion, its later than I'm used to, and I never seem to be able to have the resources to devote to arbiters. What used to be 200 apm Terrans without a clue on bnet are now Terrans quite capable of rolling me if I'm not constantly on my guard. I can smash FD's and pressure pretty well now, but occasionally I botch my timing a bit (usually on the attack).

PvZ I'm quite a bit better at than most mediocre Protoss. I feel like I have to fast expand though, and I never did that on bnet. On the plus side, I never ever seemed to win fast expanding on bnet and I've gotten more than a few wins out of it now. One of my recent losses in the matchup was to a bunch of lings slipping past my cannon/partial wall-in on Katrina thus screwing my expansion. The other was to pure muta that I tried to scout but couldn't, and by the time I did it was too late. There were some suspicious moves by the guy, but it didn't register at the time.

My solution to PvP has been to play ZvP instead. ZvP is probably by far my best matchup, so it doesn't make much sense not to play it when my PvP is so terrible. My apm is on average 20 higher playing as zerg (and I hit a high of 141 for an entire game tonight), and my hydra micro is such that I can beat most D level players easily by just going pure hydra. My only loss in this matchup was to someone who zealot rushed me and sealed my choke off before I had any lings to harass his zealots.

The one thing that's struck me as quite different is everyone has a much better sense of timing and tends to exert much more pressure than any bnet players I've ever encountered. I'm always super jittery for matchs, but I think it's helped me keep my apm up. Occasionally it has interfered enough to hinder my macro, but hopefully with time that will go away. At any rate, I'm well on my way to D+.

And here's my profile if anyone wants to look.

http://www.iccup.com/iccscprofile/294473/

****
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13197 Posts
April 09 2008 06:42 GMT
#2
gl gl don't give up ; )
Hates Fun🤔
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32281 Posts
April 09 2008 07:12 GMT
#3
Sounds like you improve a lot lately. Don't give up!

(watching progaming pumps me up to play :D)
Moderator<:3-/-<
useLess
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4781 Posts
April 09 2008 07:18 GMT
#4
With PvP, its important to scout. Theres the 1gate/core or the 2gate open, and what youll have to do is match him in the number of gateways. Or, what I did in one of my PvP ( http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=69058 ) was opt for a shield battery and pull some probes to help.
Moonlight Shadow
Play
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia608 Posts
April 09 2008 07:24 GMT
#5
apm isnt EVERTHING...though it does help. My apm is 150+ and can hit highs of 300+ and atm i am about 4-15 on iccup and you could probably beat me if you are beating D+ players.
jmascis
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RotterdaM Event
16:15
Rotti's PatchesSC Open #4
RotterdaM813
IndyStarCraft 205
TKL 199
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 813
ByuN 591
IndyStarCraft 219
TKL 190
EmSc Tv 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21994
Shuttle 1085
Dewaltoss 157
firebathero 128
Barracks 45
Sexy 44
scan(afreeca) 24
Shine 20
Trap 15
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma359
Fuzer 224
Counter-Strike
fl0m528
pashabiceps397
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby1375
Liquid`Hasu172
MindelVK15
Other Games
FrodaN1953
summit1g1213
Beastyqt588
KnowMe415
hiko357
B2W.Neo298
Dendi277
C9.Mang0112
Liquid`LucifroN102
ArmadaUGS89
QueenE68
Livibee49
Trikslyr49
ToD8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1316
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 14
EmSc2Tv 14
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 12
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 19
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3789
League of Legends
• Jankos1706
Other Games
• imaqtpie619
• Shiphtur123
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 10m
GSL
16h 10m
AI Arena Tournament
22h 10m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
GSL
1d 16h
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
1d 20h
Spirit vs Mixu
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Light vs EffOrt
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.