• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:29
CEST 05:29
KST 12:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)65ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play Possible bug in the new patch?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK #4 20-21th June
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BW General Discussion [BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5946 users

TSL Musings

Blogs > zer0das
Post a Reply
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-04-09 06:40:33
April 09 2008 06:37 GMT
#1
I've never ever played competitive Starcraft until the past week. I usually stuck to playing with a friend and when he couldn't play, US East (yeah, yeah). He used to beat me all the time... like 95%. Eventually my APM increased from around 75 or so to about 90-95 on average. I still didn't win, but 2-3 months down the road something clicked and I beat him about 75% of the time now.

Within the past two weeks my apm rose another 10 or so to 105 as Protoss (my main race). So I decided to dive into Iccup partly due to TSL and see how I fared.

I went 1-7 the first 8 games. I did win my second game, but it was pretty atrocious. Two things became clear: players are quite a bit smarter than on bnet, and my PvP is atrocious.

First game- a loss in a game I should have won. The guy was zerg and straight teched to hive. I killed his third expo but he sent a ton of lings and ultras to my natural and mauled me because I made too many goons. He pressured me a lot with lings early so I couldn't really scout, and I figured he was going hydra. He only had 68 apm.

Eventually I started winning and I'm currently 14-19, with most of the wins coming in my past 10 games or so. I still suck atrociously at PvP (I've probably played all of five PvP's against my friend since we random, and we've gotten maybe 5 mirrors in 200 games). I either die to zealot rushes rather quickly (after losing to the guy with 68 apm, I lost to a Protoss with 62 apm... how does someone with few actions beat me with a zealot rush? >.< ) or I'm too conservative and I get rolled by dragoons. In the event I survive that far the guy has probably suicided all his troops to kill my cannons so his dts can rape me. My observers never, ever pop in time to deal with dts (hence why I started going cannons). I honestly cannot figure this matchup out, and I thought I had a decent grasp of it (although I know in practice it has always been my weak point).

My PvT is quite a bit better, but I still struggle to scrap together a win. Terrans seems to be much more aggressive and though I can usually secure a third expansion, its later than I'm used to, and I never seem to be able to have the resources to devote to arbiters. What used to be 200 apm Terrans without a clue on bnet are now Terrans quite capable of rolling me if I'm not constantly on my guard. I can smash FD's and pressure pretty well now, but occasionally I botch my timing a bit (usually on the attack).

PvZ I'm quite a bit better at than most mediocre Protoss. I feel like I have to fast expand though, and I never did that on bnet. On the plus side, I never ever seemed to win fast expanding on bnet and I've gotten more than a few wins out of it now. One of my recent losses in the matchup was to a bunch of lings slipping past my cannon/partial wall-in on Katrina thus screwing my expansion. The other was to pure muta that I tried to scout but couldn't, and by the time I did it was too late. There were some suspicious moves by the guy, but it didn't register at the time.

My solution to PvP has been to play ZvP instead. ZvP is probably by far my best matchup, so it doesn't make much sense not to play it when my PvP is so terrible. My apm is on average 20 higher playing as zerg (and I hit a high of 141 for an entire game tonight), and my hydra micro is such that I can beat most D level players easily by just going pure hydra. My only loss in this matchup was to someone who zealot rushed me and sealed my choke off before I had any lings to harass his zealots.

The one thing that's struck me as quite different is everyone has a much better sense of timing and tends to exert much more pressure than any bnet players I've ever encountered. I'm always super jittery for matchs, but I think it's helped me keep my apm up. Occasionally it has interfered enough to hinder my macro, but hopefully with time that will go away. At any rate, I'm well on my way to D+.

And here's my profile if anyone wants to look.

http://www.iccup.com/iccscprofile/294473/

****
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
April 09 2008 06:42 GMT
#2
gl gl don't give up ; )
Hates Fun🤔
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32278 Posts
April 09 2008 07:12 GMT
#3
Sounds like you improve a lot lately. Don't give up!

(watching progaming pumps me up to play :D)
Moderator<:3-/-<
useLess
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4781 Posts
April 09 2008 07:18 GMT
#4
With PvP, its important to scout. Theres the 1gate/core or the 2gate open, and what youll have to do is match him in the number of gateways. Or, what I did in one of my PvP ( http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=69058 ) was opt for a shield battery and pull some probes to help.
Moonlight Shadow
Play
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia608 Posts
April 09 2008 07:24 GMT
#5
apm isnt EVERTHING...though it does help. My apm is 150+ and can hit highs of 300+ and atm i am about 4-15 on iccup and you could probably beat me if you are beating D+ players.
jmascis
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft226
ViBE169
ProTech159
RuFF_SC2 156
Nina 150
Livibee 107
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3966
GuemChi 3395
Shuttle 366
Noble 16
Bale 7
League of Legends
JimRising 657
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe208
Other Games
summit1g12636
C9.Mang0840
PiGStarcraft499
Mew2King118
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1017
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 67
• Response 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush878
• Lourlo723
• Stunt116
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
1h 31m
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Big Brain Bouts
12h 31m
Jumy vs eGGz
Harstem vs sebesdes
TriGGeR vs HeRoMaRinE
Douyu Cup 2020
1d 1h
Maestros of the Game
1d 9h
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1d 10h
Douyu Cup 2020
2 days
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
2 days
Online Event
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
OSC
5 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Bombastic Starleague
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSCL: Masked Kings S4
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.