• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:15
CET 22:15
KST 06:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled9Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains12Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Terran AddOns placement Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) https://www.facebook.com/BubaSocks.Official/ [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1597 users

TSL Musings

Blogs > zer0das
Post a Reply
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-04-09 06:40:33
April 09 2008 06:37 GMT
#1
I've never ever played competitive Starcraft until the past week. I usually stuck to playing with a friend and when he couldn't play, US East (yeah, yeah). He used to beat me all the time... like 95%. Eventually my APM increased from around 75 or so to about 90-95 on average. I still didn't win, but 2-3 months down the road something clicked and I beat him about 75% of the time now.

Within the past two weeks my apm rose another 10 or so to 105 as Protoss (my main race). So I decided to dive into Iccup partly due to TSL and see how I fared.

I went 1-7 the first 8 games. I did win my second game, but it was pretty atrocious. Two things became clear: players are quite a bit smarter than on bnet, and my PvP is atrocious.

First game- a loss in a game I should have won. The guy was zerg and straight teched to hive. I killed his third expo but he sent a ton of lings and ultras to my natural and mauled me because I made too many goons. He pressured me a lot with lings early so I couldn't really scout, and I figured he was going hydra. He only had 68 apm.

Eventually I started winning and I'm currently 14-19, with most of the wins coming in my past 10 games or so. I still suck atrociously at PvP (I've probably played all of five PvP's against my friend since we random, and we've gotten maybe 5 mirrors in 200 games). I either die to zealot rushes rather quickly (after losing to the guy with 68 apm, I lost to a Protoss with 62 apm... how does someone with few actions beat me with a zealot rush? >.< ) or I'm too conservative and I get rolled by dragoons. In the event I survive that far the guy has probably suicided all his troops to kill my cannons so his dts can rape me. My observers never, ever pop in time to deal with dts (hence why I started going cannons). I honestly cannot figure this matchup out, and I thought I had a decent grasp of it (although I know in practice it has always been my weak point).

My PvT is quite a bit better, but I still struggle to scrap together a win. Terrans seems to be much more aggressive and though I can usually secure a third expansion, its later than I'm used to, and I never seem to be able to have the resources to devote to arbiters. What used to be 200 apm Terrans without a clue on bnet are now Terrans quite capable of rolling me if I'm not constantly on my guard. I can smash FD's and pressure pretty well now, but occasionally I botch my timing a bit (usually on the attack).

PvZ I'm quite a bit better at than most mediocre Protoss. I feel like I have to fast expand though, and I never did that on bnet. On the plus side, I never ever seemed to win fast expanding on bnet and I've gotten more than a few wins out of it now. One of my recent losses in the matchup was to a bunch of lings slipping past my cannon/partial wall-in on Katrina thus screwing my expansion. The other was to pure muta that I tried to scout but couldn't, and by the time I did it was too late. There were some suspicious moves by the guy, but it didn't register at the time.

My solution to PvP has been to play ZvP instead. ZvP is probably by far my best matchup, so it doesn't make much sense not to play it when my PvP is so terrible. My apm is on average 20 higher playing as zerg (and I hit a high of 141 for an entire game tonight), and my hydra micro is such that I can beat most D level players easily by just going pure hydra. My only loss in this matchup was to someone who zealot rushed me and sealed my choke off before I had any lings to harass his zealots.

The one thing that's struck me as quite different is everyone has a much better sense of timing and tends to exert much more pressure than any bnet players I've ever encountered. I'm always super jittery for matchs, but I think it's helped me keep my apm up. Occasionally it has interfered enough to hinder my macro, but hopefully with time that will go away. At any rate, I'm well on my way to D+.

And here's my profile if anyone wants to look.

http://www.iccup.com/iccscprofile/294473/

****
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
April 09 2008 06:42 GMT
#2
gl gl don't give up ; )
Hates Fun🤔
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32277 Posts
April 09 2008 07:12 GMT
#3
Sounds like you improve a lot lately. Don't give up!

(watching progaming pumps me up to play :D)
Moderator<:3-/-<
useLess
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4781 Posts
April 09 2008 07:18 GMT
#4
With PvP, its important to scout. Theres the 1gate/core or the 2gate open, and what youll have to do is match him in the number of gateways. Or, what I did in one of my PvP ( http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=69058 ) was opt for a shield battery and pull some probes to help.
Moonlight Shadow
Play
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia608 Posts
April 09 2008 07:24 GMT
#5
apm isnt EVERTHING...though it does help. My apm is 150+ and can hit highs of 300+ and atm i am about 4-15 on iccup and you could probably beat me if you are beating D+ players.
jmascis
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 738
IndyStarCraft 164
ProTech144
JuggernautJason89
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 56
scan(afreeca) 44
NaDa 13
Dota 2
canceldota165
Counter-Strike
fl0m4016
Coldzera 1395
byalli338
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu371
Khaldor135
Other Games
gofns50121
tarik_tv17275
summit1g7143
FrodaN3647
Grubby2949
Gorgc2700
Beastyqt740
B2W.Neo579
KnowMe431
DeMusliM217
C9.Mang0188
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1740
ComeBackTV 235
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 61
• davetesta17
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 71
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift3585
• TFBlade1207
Other Games
• imaqtpie1150
• Scarra663
• Shiphtur145
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 45m
CranKy Ducklings
12h 45m
RSL Revival
12h 45m
MaxPax vs Rogue
Clem vs Bunny
WardiTV Team League
14h 45m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
19h 45m
BSL
22h 45m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
RSL Revival
1d 12h
ByuN vs SHIN
Maru vs Krystianer
WardiTV Team League
1d 14h
Patches Events
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 22h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
GSL
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-12
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
Proleague 2026-03-13
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.