• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:21
CEST 03:21
KST 10:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview9[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?24Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris46Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!15Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Monday Nights Weeklies LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments 🏆 GTL Season 2 – StarCraft II Team League
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ No Rain in ASL20? Starcraft at lower levels TvP
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Teeworlds - online game General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 619 users

The problem with Star Trek

Blogs > oBlade
Post a Reply
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5629 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-12 13:56:24
January 12 2020 11:56 GMT
#1
This all started like 20 years ago with a guy who had a great idea to make a TV show about an island where nobody knew what would happen next - not even the writers.

Star Trek is a great idea. It produced 3 amazing TV shows, plus Voyager and Enterprise. That all came from the TOS films. While TNG did have the responsibility of holding its own (it could have just as easily flopped), that chance came because of the movies.

So it's fitting that movies should be what bookend the success of the franchise and cause it to finally die.

Kirk is not a literary character. James Bond came from a book. Anyone can come along and replace the current Bond actor when they get too old. Anyone can play Julius Caesar in a movie.

You cannot reboot something with new actors when the original actors were the characters. If Dalton plays Bond after Moore, that's acting. If someone pretends to be Kirk after Shatner, that's not acting, it's a Halloween costume.

This is not to plant offense or blame on the talented actors in this millennium's Trek (nor indeed on the untalented actors, indistinguishable among this writing and production). But when you see Spock, and Kirk, and McCoy in the reboot trilogy, and get a warm feeling seeing their drama and cute banter, that's merely deja vu. That's triggering the memory of the relationships between the characters played by the actual original actors. It's not its own thing. There is nothing actually new or original, let alone good.

And that's what's sad. People want and deserve something new. They don't want to try and relive something great, when it will invariably fail to live up to the expectations of your memory. (I say invariably, but there's also an outside chance it could be better if it weren't handled by hacks.) Enter JJ Abrams and his company, Bad Reboot Productions.

The problem with Trek is it's no longer wholesome.

Seinfeld said that the success of a sitcom has to include likability. The audience have to at some level think they would want to live in that world.

Do you want to live in Star Trek: Discovery?

It seems like it would be the easiest thing to come up with a simple Next Next Generation series sometime in the period after the Dominion War.

People aren't stupid. They would like something new, but yes, it's risky. But literally anything would have been a better idea than this reboot and prequel, and probably Picard.

-Q movie
-Borg or Vidiian horror movie
-Jupiter Station sitcom starring Barclay and Robert Picardo
-Law and Order: Trek a la Quark/Odo
-Trekpranos a la DS9 Honor Among Thieves, etc.
-Trek medical drama
-Romulan War
-Schindler's List movie of the Bajoran Occupation

Instead we have a prequel. But it takes place in the future compared to the prequel we already had, which was actually good and didn't contain mushroom engines and Apple store bridges. Perhaps this mess is partly the fans' fault for rejecting ENT.

What would you like to see?

*****
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
January 12 2020 16:06 GMT
#2
Yeah I think you're right about likability and wholesomeness. There's no longer a sense of wonderment either. "Space, the final frontier" just doesn't have the same ring to it anymore, maybe because of the advance of technology or increasing cynicism. Could also just be rose tinted nostalgia glasses too..
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25540 Posts
January 12 2020 19:53 GMT
#3
Trek’s appeal (to me) is viewing various ethical problems or practical problems through the prism of science fiction in an aspirational way, with characters who are incredibly smart but have their own foibles and flaws that factor in too and how those conflict. That’s relatively grounded in its own universe.

I guess it’s a rare exception, I tend to dystopian science fiction generally but Star Trek is the exception there.

The latest Trek films don’t do that, but in fairness most actual films in the Trek universe don’t do what the shows do either due to the constraints of making a feature film.

I haven’t seen Discovery yet but I haven’t heard good things either.

I’m actually a relatively late convert too, so it’s not nostalgia talking here. I’d always enjoyed watching the odd episode in my youth but it’s only now at 30 I’m properly watching all of TNG and DS9. They still hold up remarkably well.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13970 Posts
January 13 2020 09:48 GMT
#4
Baffling to me still is how much more star trek the orville was then star trek. They had a government mandated sex change to a baby and no one batted an eye.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6934 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-13 10:16:11
January 13 2020 10:15 GMT
#5
I'm not a hardcore Trekkie (not by a large margin)

I liked the reboot movies with the young actors, I hated the TV show Discovery.
I think the movies are good way to bring the franchise to young people who wouldn't watch 40 year old stuff.

Other than that, you are probably right. The Star Trek universe is big enough for new stories. No reason to use the same characters as in the "old" stuff
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2394 Posts
January 13 2020 11:23 GMT
#6
On January 12 2020 20:56 oBlade wrote:
Perhaps this mess is partly the fans' fault for rejecting ENT.

I mean, seriously, Enterprise and Voyager are still way better than anything that's come out since.
To me, Enterprise and Voyager feel closer to TNG than ToS. They're certainly not bad!
The original Bogus fan.
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2497 Posts
January 13 2020 11:39 GMT
#7
As an outsider, I know exactly how this feels. I consider myself a hardcore Star Wars fan

On January 12 2020 20:56 oBlade wrote:

The problem with Trek is it's no longer wholesome.

This is exactly how I feel about Star Wars, once Disney took over I knew it had became something commercial, not true to the pure essence of the story and the saga. My feeling is that in the last 5-7 years very few exceptional films and shows have been produced. Hopefully the 2020-2030 decade will be better and we will get back on track with true stories, that have something to say, instead of everything being being a click-bait grab your attention every second sensationalistic camera rolling with sound
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-13 21:27:53
January 13 2020 21:27 GMT
#8
On January 13 2020 20:23 Turbovolver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2020 20:56 oBlade wrote:
Perhaps this mess is partly the fans' fault for rejecting ENT.

I mean, seriously, Enterprise and Voyager are still way better than anything that's come out since.
To me, Enterprise and Voyager feel closer to TNG than ToS. They're certainly not bad!


I definitely didn't hate ENT as much as a lot of the internet (in fact, the last 2 seasons were pretty good minus the last episode IMO) and Voyager while not DS9 or TNG was somewhere between good and great. Discovery...I watched both seasons but don't think I will watch any more going forward. It just doesn't feel like ST at all. As others have stated I watch the Orville now to get my trek fix.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
naughtDE
Profile Blog Joined May 2019
158 Posts
January 13 2020 23:06 GMT
#9
Wholesome is the wrong word for StarTrek.
What made me wanna be part of the StarTrek world was how aspirational it was. I started rewatching TNG after 20 years and transhumanism is one of it's core elements.

The reason the Q take interest in mankind is that they see mankind's potential to develop farther than the Q ever could. There is a transdimensional traveler in season 1 that visits the enterprise to experience Wesley Crusher, a human on it's way to a higher form of existence. All this stuff, is so aloof, ballsy and important. It is striving for a higher form of existence.

Discoverie's Core themes were war and morality, prevalent in many other franchises, not too inspiring, absolutely not aspirational.
"I'll take [LET IT SNOW] for 800" - Sean Connery (Darrell Hammond)
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25540 Posts
January 13 2020 23:14 GMT
#10
On January 14 2020 08:06 naughtDE wrote:
Wholesome is the wrong word for StarTrek.
What made me wanna be part of the StarTrek world was how aspirational it was. I started rewatching TNG after 20 years and transhumanism is one of it's core elements.

The reason the Q take interest in mankind is that they see mankind's potential to develop farther than the Q ever could. There is a transdimensional traveler in season 1 that visits the enterprise to experience Wesley Crusher, a human on it's way to a higher form of existence. All this stuff, is so aloof, ballsy and important. It is striving for a higher form of existence.

Discoverie's Core themes were war and morality, prevalent in many other franchises, not too inspiring, absolutely not aspirational.

Probably is the wrong word aye, but I think people use wholesome and aspirational interchangeably re. Trek.

It’s definitely the show I watch when idiots at work are pissing me off, or politics is that little bit too depressing for even my defences of a week.

I guess because it’s a universe where integrity, ethics and an understanding and open mind actually count for rather a lot. Where problem solving and exhaustively exploring peaceful options are where it’s at rather than blowing up bad guys.

So yeah call it wholesome, aspirational or whatever but I agree that specific kind of stuff is what people like about it.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 14 2020 06:07 GMT
#11
Sadly, the interviews I saw with Patrick Stewart did not give me hope for his new reboot:
“In a way, the world of ‘Next Generation’ had been too perfect and too protected,” he says. “It was the Enterprise. It was a safe world of respect and communication and care and, sometimes, fun.” In “Picard,” the Federation — a union of planets bonded by shared democratic values — has taken an isolationist turn. The new show, Stewart says, “was me responding to the world of Brexit and Trump and feeling, ‘Why hasn’t the Federation changed? Why hasn’t Starfleet changed?’ Maybe they’re not as reliable and trustworthy as we all thought.”

Real-world parallels are not hard to identify. It is one week before the parliamentary election that will see British prime minister and Brexit hardliner Boris Johnson’s Conservatives win a staggering victory over their Labour rivals. And Stewart is not feeling optimistic about the near future.

“I’m not sure which one of us is in the most trouble,” he says of Britain and the United States. “I think it’s actually the U.K. I think we’re f—ed, completely f—ed.” He points to studies predicting decades-long economic damage inflicted by the country’s looming withdrawal from the European Union. Of the U.S., he says, “There is a time limit to your f—ed state, which is four years away.” He expresses hope that “the United States that has given us the Trump administration” can change, but adds, “He will likely get reelected.”

Variety

I'm pessimistic from that article, but they could still do a good job. The antagonist has to be believable, and the setup can't be hackneyed villains drawing from modern tropes.

I'm hoping for something not already done to death.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
naughtDE
Profile Blog Joined May 2019
158 Posts
January 14 2020 12:17 GMT
#12
On January 14 2020 08:14 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2020 08:06 naughtDE wrote:
Wholesome is the wrong word for StarTrek.
What made me wanna be part of the StarTrek world was how aspirational it was. I started rewatching TNG after 20 years and transhumanism is one of it's core elements.

The reason the Q take interest in mankind is that they see mankind's potential to develop farther than the Q ever could. There is a transdimensional traveler in season 1 that visits the enterprise to experience Wesley Crusher, a human on it's way to a higher form of existence. All this stuff, is so aloof, ballsy and important. It is striving for a higher form of existence.

Discoverie's Core themes were war and morality, prevalent in many other franchises, not too inspiring, absolutely not aspirational.

Probably is the wrong word aye, but I think people use wholesome and aspirational interchangeably re. Trek.

It’s definitely the show I watch when idiots at work are pissing me off, or politics is that little bit too depressing for even my defences of a week.

I guess because it’s a universe where integrity, ethics and an understanding and open mind actually count for rather a lot. Where problem solving and exhaustively exploring peaceful options are where it’s at rather than blowing up bad guys.

So yeah call it wholesome, aspirational or whatever but I agree that specific kind of stuff is what people like about it.

If you think people use wholesome and aspirational interchangeably, I already like you a lot!
"I'll take [LET IT SNOW] for 800" - Sean Connery (Darrell Hammond)
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25540 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-14 13:41:45
January 14 2020 13:41 GMT
#13
On January 14 2020 15:07 Danglars wrote:
Sadly, the interviews I saw with Patrick Stewart did not give me hope for his new reboot:
Show nested quote +
“In a way, the world of ‘Next Generation’ had been too perfect and too protected,” he says. “It was the Enterprise. It was a safe world of respect and communication and care and, sometimes, fun.” In “Picard,” the Federation — a union of planets bonded by shared democratic values — has taken an isolationist turn. The new show, Stewart says, “was me responding to the world of Brexit and Trump and feeling, ‘Why hasn’t the Federation changed? Why hasn’t Starfleet changed?’ Maybe they’re not as reliable and trustworthy as we all thought.”

Real-world parallels are not hard to identify. It is one week before the parliamentary election that will see British prime minister and Brexit hardliner Boris Johnson’s Conservatives win a staggering victory over their Labour rivals. And Stewart is not feeling optimistic about the near future.

“I’m not sure which one of us is in the most trouble,” he says of Britain and the United States. “I think it’s actually the U.K. I think we’re f—ed, completely f—ed.” He points to studies predicting decades-long economic damage inflicted by the country’s looming withdrawal from the European Union. Of the U.S., he says, “There is a time limit to your f—ed state, which is four years away.” He expresses hope that “the United States that has given us the Trump administration” can change, but adds, “He will likely get reelected.”

Variety

I'm pessimistic from that article, but they could still do a good job. The antagonist has to be believable, and the setup can't be hackneyed villains drawing from modern tropes.

I'm hoping for something not already done to death.

I’m pretty intrigued, I’m really not sure what to expect which is an increasingly novel feeling. Could be really good, could be utterly terrible and I have zero clue which.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5629 Posts
January 17 2020 15:40 GMT
#14
Leaked plot to the new Picard series:
Jean-Luc Picard awakens from a 20 year Borg-induced coma to find the Federation a xenophobic hellhole. He concocts a plan to use Starfleet to overthrow the duly elected president of the United Federation of Planets, who won the previous election by carrying 304 systems despite only getting 630 billion in the popular vote and now flies around in a solid gold starship built secretly by Section 31 - the NCC 1701-DRUMPF. Will he successfully enlist the help of Mitt Riker to succeed in his coup and convince the Federation to accept Jem-hadar refugees?

Source: https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/tv/a27496471/star-trek-picard/
Looks interesting.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
virpi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Germany3598 Posts
January 17 2020 16:33 GMT
#15
I liked ENT way more than VOY. The latter was so incredibly dull.
The Star Trek I like needs good characters, problems with consequences and believable solutions to them. That's why DS9 is by far my favourite ST show overall. TNG had the higher peaks (THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS), but it also was too much "monster of the week" type storytelling. But for its time, it was a great show.

I'm also sick of reboots. Like OP stated, all those new movies feel like mimicry. All I want is a new ST show that takes place after VOY with a unique twist. The possibilities are endless. Yet the studios prefer the easy cash-in, which is understandable but sad. I don't want to see an old Picard (even though I admire Patrick Stewart), TNG ended perfectly. No need to add anything.
first we make expand, then we defense it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25540 Posts
January 17 2020 17:49 GMT
#16
On January 18 2020 01:33 virpi wrote:
I liked ENT way more than VOY. The latter was so incredibly dull.
The Star Trek I like needs good characters, problems with consequences and believable solutions to them. That's why DS9 is by far my favourite ST show overall. TNG had the higher peaks (THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS), but it also was too much "monster of the week" type storytelling. But for its time, it was a great show.

I'm also sick of reboots. Like OP stated, all those new movies feel like mimicry. All I want is a new ST show that takes place after VOY with a unique twist. The possibilities are endless. Yet the studios prefer the easy cash-in, which is understandable but sad. I don't want to see an old Picard (even though I admire Patrick Stewart), TNG ended perfectly. No need to add anything.

I‘m even OK with something with no real new angle to it, just more of the same at a TNG/DS9 quality with new characters could be great.

You’d probably have to retread some ideas from the previous shows, it’s difficult to continually come up with new ethical scenarios after hundreds before, but it could still be good and a taste for the new generation of that Star Trek feel.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#47
SteadfastSC208
CranKy Ducklings152
rockletztv 46
EnkiAlexander 25
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 208
Nina 93
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 933
sSak 179
NaDa 27
Purpose 12
Icarus 5
yabsab 4
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1088
League of Legends
Cuddl3bear1
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1196
taco 290
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox397
Other Games
summit1g6295
tarik_tv4446
shahzam573
C9.Mang0440
ViBE225
Maynarde204
Trikslyr88
Mew2King65
JuggernautJason13
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick788
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 24
• HerbMon 10
• sM.Zik 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1376
• imaqtpie1061
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
9h 39m
Replay Cast
22h 39m
The PondCast
1d 8h
RSL Revival
1d 8h
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Maestros of the Game
1d 15h
OSC
2 days
MaNa vs SHIN
SKillous vs ShoWTimE
Bunny vs TBD
Cham vs TBD
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
Maestros of the Game
2 days
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
3 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
Maestros of the Game
3 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
Maestros of the Game
4 days
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.