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TLADT24920 Posts
^ I think mental drain is understandable but so far, it seems like most people don't seem to think of it as draining enough that you can't sleep in say 15-30 minutes.
On November 27 2019 00:38 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I used to get andrenaline shakes after a game of broodwar, but not anymore. Never felt physically exhausted like I was physically exercising though. I have gotten "the shakes" when I'm playing different games like BW, WC3 or DotA, when I felt like I was about to win someone who was a lot better than me. Show nested quote +On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Also that 40-50 heartrate wtf, do you have a body of Adonis Bisu? Better, he has the body of LMaster. You would understand if you watch his streams. Show nested quote +On November 25 2019 16:06 BigFan wrote:
Well, I mean, sure, but syntax isn't that big of a deal here imo. It's about whether you're about to concentrate on other tasks after finishing a long BW session if you are given 15 minutes to relax. Because of the word choice, some people seem to think that some of us are whining or something. I'm not sure what your aim is but I think you understand my position on the matter, that I need to wind down after a game and can't go to sleep immediately after, just like how we can't go to sleep immediately after jogging for 30 minutes. Additionally, I don't want to go "jogging" for 30 minutes at the end of a long day.
But jogging is physically stimulating too, while BW is more mentally stimulation with a bit of physical. I don't believe you can compare the two that easily.
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Norway28896 Posts
I've never felt drained in a 'can't sleep' type of way, or well maybe from winning something important twice, but that was 'too exhilarated', not exhausted.
bw is the only game I've ever played where I can sometimes go like 'naw, I'm too tired to feel like playing now' while not being sleepy in any form - and where mostly any other activity is completely fine. Entirely talking mentally now though.
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On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:^ I think mental drain is understandable but so far, it seems like most people don't seem to think of it as draining enough that you can't sleep in say 15-30 minutes. Show nested quote +On November 27 2019 00:38 JieXian wrote:On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I used to get andrenaline shakes after a game of broodwar, but not anymore. Never felt physically exhausted like I was physically exercising though. I have gotten "the shakes" when I'm playing different games like BW, WC3 or DotA, when I felt like I was about to win someone who was a lot better than me. On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Also that 40-50 heartrate wtf, do you have a body of Adonis Bisu? Better, he has the body of LMaster. You would understand if you watch his streams. On November 25 2019 16:06 BigFan wrote:
Well, I mean, sure, but syntax isn't that big of a deal here imo. It's about whether you're about to concentrate on other tasks after finishing a long BW session if you are given 15 minutes to relax. Because of the word choice, some people seem to think that some of us are whining or something. I'm not sure what your aim is but I think you understand my position on the matter, that I need to wind down after a game and can't go to sleep immediately after, just like how we can't go to sleep immediately after jogging for 30 minutes. Additionally, I don't want to go "jogging" for 30 minutes at the end of a long day. But jogging is physically stimulating too, while BW is more mentally stimulation with a bit of physical. I don't believe you can compare the two that easily.
I think draining is the wrong word. If you're drained you can usually sleep like a babe.
I'd say stressful/intense/wired/etc. Playing a demanding few games you want to win can leave you so hyped and wired you cant sleep right away.
bw is the only game I've ever played where I can sometimes go like 'naw, I'm too tired to feel like playing now' while not being sleepy in any form - and where mostly any other activity is completely fine. Entirely talking mentally now though.
I feel this. Aside from highly physical activities, BW requires a level of mental engagement and stress that can be over my threshold when I'm particularly low on energy or drained from a longer/stressful day.
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On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:
But jogging is physically stimulating too, while BW is more mentally stimulation with a bit of physical. I don't believe you can compare the two that easily.
Yes I definitely can. Both are a source of "stimulation" as you put it, and both activities require us to exert ourselves. I was not arguing that you/others should feel "exhausted". I was trying to explain what I perceive using an analogy.
On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:
^ I think mental drain is understandable but so far, it seems like most people don't seem to think of it as draining enough that you can't sleep in say 15-30 minutes.
I think I could give you another example. I can't sleep immediately after doing other activities that really excite me, for example
1) After doing programming intensely for many hours
2) Working on music/ music production for many hours and trying to get the damn thing to not suck
3) Playing certain games like Quake, WC3 or DotA. Especially Quake.
4) Talking to someone who really excited me
I need to spend some time to wind down due to the "mental intertia" I experience, where my mind will keep running and thinking about the previous task while I'm trying to sleep (eg. I'll be thinking about my code instead of being able to sleep). It's not that I'm drained, the "mental intertia" I feel is more like how a fast moving trailer needs more time before being able to grind to a halt, as opposed to a Hot Wheels car.
Not that I'm saying your brain is a hot wheels car :D
I don't know whether "mental intertia" is a thing but I think that most adequately describes the phenomena in place of imprecise words like "drained" or "exhaustion", or analogies that BigHead can't follow due to his lack of imagination  .
On November 27 2019 06:33 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:^ I think mental drain is understandable but so far, it seems like most people don't seem to think of it as draining enough that you can't sleep in say 15-30 minutes. On November 27 2019 00:38 JieXian wrote:On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I used to get andrenaline shakes after a game of broodwar, but not anymore. Never felt physically exhausted like I was physically exercising though. I have gotten "the shakes" when I'm playing different games like BW, WC3 or DotA, when I felt like I was about to win someone who was a lot better than me. On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Also that 40-50 heartrate wtf, do you have a body of Adonis Bisu? Better, he has the body of LMaster. You would understand if you watch his streams. On November 25 2019 16:06 BigFan wrote:
Well, I mean, sure, but syntax isn't that big of a deal here imo. It's about whether you're about to concentrate on other tasks after finishing a long BW session if you are given 15 minutes to relax. Because of the word choice, some people seem to think that some of us are whining or something. I'm not sure what your aim is but I think you understand my position on the matter, that I need to wind down after a game and can't go to sleep immediately after, just like how we can't go to sleep immediately after jogging for 30 minutes. Additionally, I don't want to go "jogging" for 30 minutes at the end of a long day. But jogging is physically stimulating too, while BW is more mentally stimulation with a bit of physical. I don't believe you can compare the two that easily. I think draining is the wrong word. If you're drained you can usually sleep like a babe. I'd say stressful/intense/wired/etc. Playing a demanding few games you want to win can leave you so hyped and wired you cant sleep right away. Show nested quote +bw is the only game I've ever played where I can sometimes go like 'naw, I'm too tired to feel like playing now' while not being sleepy in any form - and where mostly any other activity is completely fine. Entirely talking mentally now though.
I feel this. Aside from highly physical activities, BW requires a level of mental engagement and stress that can be over my threshold when I'm particularly low on energy or drained from a longer/stressful day.
Yes, this is what I experience.
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I haven't played since remastered came out and broke the game for my PC, but before that I was just playing once in awhile with a friend a few matches in a row. When I was a teenager I really liked how hard you could play the game. In those last years it really felt a little difficult to get back into the game after an absence, your muscle memory for the game disappears and your movement is inefficient and hurts your hands a little. I definitely feel bad for the pros who damaged their bodies playing SC into their late twenties.
As far as not being able to concentrate after a game... I guess that's because you're thinking of different things you want to try, and you're not playing with the same opponent again and again so you can't try them right away like you would if you weren't on ladder just playing with a friend. I can't really recall it being a huge problem for me ever. I didn't take myself too seriously in StarCraft games, I knew how much better people were than me at it. I viewed B rank as a kind of godly title beyond my means. I was more interested in trying goofy strategies than getting good, although my mechanics did improve over time and I sometimes specifically tried to improve one or another specific SC skill.
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The temperature of my head rises significantly when I focus on Brood War. This happens when I'm working on something mentally challenging for a sustained period of time, as well. I like the feeling because lately I've been scatterbrained from all the social media, news, and phone distractions in my life.
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For me its relaxing... lul
But this is mb cause i stopped spamming apm so much, now i see the game more clearly and enjoy the little aspects of it more.
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TLADT24920 Posts
^ Indeed. I find BW relaxing, but I also agree that some days where I'm tired, trying to boot up the game can be rough. However, once I get started, I can just keep going haha.
On November 27 2019 06:33 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:^ I think mental drain is understandable but so far, it seems like most people don't seem to think of it as draining enough that you can't sleep in say 15-30 minutes. On November 27 2019 00:38 JieXian wrote:On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I used to get andrenaline shakes after a game of broodwar, but not anymore. Never felt physically exhausted like I was physically exercising though. I have gotten "the shakes" when I'm playing different games like BW, WC3 or DotA, when I felt like I was about to win someone who was a lot better than me. On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Also that 40-50 heartrate wtf, do you have a body of Adonis Bisu? Better, he has the body of LMaster. You would understand if you watch his streams. On November 25 2019 16:06 BigFan wrote:
Well, I mean, sure, but syntax isn't that big of a deal here imo. It's about whether you're about to concentrate on other tasks after finishing a long BW session if you are given 15 minutes to relax. Because of the word choice, some people seem to think that some of us are whining or something. I'm not sure what your aim is but I think you understand my position on the matter, that I need to wind down after a game and can't go to sleep immediately after, just like how we can't go to sleep immediately after jogging for 30 minutes. Additionally, I don't want to go "jogging" for 30 minutes at the end of a long day. But jogging is physically stimulating too, while BW is more mentally stimulation with a bit of physical. I don't believe you can compare the two that easily. I think draining is the wrong word. If you're drained you can usually sleep like a babe. I'd say stressful/intense/wired/etc. Playing a demanding few games you want to win can leave you so hyped and wired you cant sleep right away. Show nested quote +bw is the only game I've ever played where I can sometimes go like 'naw, I'm too tired to feel like playing now' while not being sleepy in any form - and where mostly any other activity is completely fine. Entirely talking mentally now though.
I feel this. Aside from highly physical activities, BW requires a level of mental engagement and stress that can be over my threshold when I'm particularly low on energy or drained from a longer/stressful day.
Sure, maybe the better phrasing was stimulation. You feel more mentally stimulated, thus more awake.
On November 27 2019 16:41 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:
But jogging is physically stimulating too, while BW is more mentally stimulation with a bit of physical. I don't believe you can compare the two that easily. Yes I definitely can. Both are a source of "stimulation" as you put it, and both activities require us to exert ourselves. I was not arguing that you/others should feel "exhausted". I was trying to explain what I perceive using an analogy. Show nested quote +On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:
^ I think mental drain is understandable but so far, it seems like most people don't seem to think of it as draining enough that you can't sleep in say 15-30 minutes. I think I could give you another example. I can't sleep immediately after doing other activities that really excite me, for example 1) After doing programming intensely for many hours 2) Working on music/ music production for many hours and trying to get the damn thing to not suck 3) Playing certain games like Quake, WC3 or DotA. Especially Quake. 4) Talking to someone who really excited me I need to spend some time to wind down due to the "mental intertia" I experience, where my mind will keep running and thinking about the previous task while I'm trying to sleep (eg. I'll be thinking about my code instead of being able to sleep). It's not that I'm drained, the "mental intertia" I feel is more like how a fast moving trailer needs more time before being able to grind to a halt, as opposed to a Hot Wheels car. Not that I'm saying your brain is a hot wheels car :D I don't know whether "mental intertia" is a thing but I think that most adequately describes the phenomena in place of imprecise words like "drained" or "exhaustion", or analogies that BigHead can't follow due to his lack of imagination . Show nested quote +On November 27 2019 06:33 L_Master wrote:On November 27 2019 04:14 BigFan wrote:^ I think mental drain is understandable but so far, it seems like most people don't seem to think of it as draining enough that you can't sleep in say 15-30 minutes. On November 27 2019 00:38 JieXian wrote:On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I used to get andrenaline shakes after a game of broodwar, but not anymore. Never felt physically exhausted like I was physically exercising though. I have gotten "the shakes" when I'm playing different games like BW, WC3 or DotA, when I felt like I was about to win someone who was a lot better than me. On November 26 2019 09:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Also that 40-50 heartrate wtf, do you have a body of Adonis Bisu? Better, he has the body of LMaster. You would understand if you watch his streams. On November 25 2019 16:06 BigFan wrote:
Well, I mean, sure, but syntax isn't that big of a deal here imo. It's about whether you're about to concentrate on other tasks after finishing a long BW session if you are given 15 minutes to relax. Because of the word choice, some people seem to think that some of us are whining or something. I'm not sure what your aim is but I think you understand my position on the matter, that I need to wind down after a game and can't go to sleep immediately after, just like how we can't go to sleep immediately after jogging for 30 minutes. Additionally, I don't want to go "jogging" for 30 minutes at the end of a long day. But jogging is physically stimulating too, while BW is more mentally stimulation with a bit of physical. I don't believe you can compare the two that easily. I think draining is the wrong word. If you're drained you can usually sleep like a babe. I'd say stressful/intense/wired/etc. Playing a demanding few games you want to win can leave you so hyped and wired you cant sleep right away. bw is the only game I've ever played where I can sometimes go like 'naw, I'm too tired to feel like playing now' while not being sleepy in any form - and where mostly any other activity is completely fine. Entirely talking mentally now though.
I feel this. Aside from highly physical activities, BW requires a level of mental engagement and stress that can be over my threshold when I'm particularly low on energy or drained from a longer/stressful day. Yes, this is what I experience.
I'll have you know that I'm very imaginative which is why you kept losing games in the weirdest fashion ever! haha. If my macro was better, you would've lost in even more bizzare ways! Alas, you keep dodging nowadays XD
As for the rest, I think part of it is that you can't shut things down because you keeping thinking about the activity that just took place. Maybe your friend told you something exciting or you got some nice crazy kills in Quake or lost to a superb opponent in a close BW game () and that's something that you keep thinking about for quite a bit after you finished.
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United States4883 Posts
This is such a weird thread. Of course "exhausting" isn't the same when we're talking about StarCraft vs exercising.
I get so fucking shaky and exhausted after playing StarCraft seriously for a 1-2 hours and have to take a 30 minute - 1 hour minimum break. I always have. Laddering has always been rough and stressful for me, and even if I try to dissociate myself from my performance or trying to win, it's incredibly draining on my nerves. I find it unlikely that most people feel completely calm and relaxed when playing competitively.
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To what degree an activity is exhausting or not is primarily determined by how harmonious the execution of said activity is, and how it interacts with the inner systems of the person executing it.
Activity and execution of the activity and the person executing the activity and the experience of the person executing the activity - to name a few - these are closely related but very distinct concepts and lumping them together is not desirable.
For example, many people find studying to be rough and exhausting and stressful. In reality, the structure of how they are executing the activity of studying is rough, disorderly, disorganized and discordant. They just kind of try to push stuff into their brain and the process is more or less some kind of a blur to them.
When I was testing my own methods of study, I saw huge differences and improvements when I was making micro-adjustments to make it more ordered and coherent, such as timing repetitions, precisely scoping the chunks to repeat, writing only the general term (hook) so that I force myself to recall entirely from the mind instead of reading, counting number of repetitions needed for successful retention, having a more precise idea about the timings (5 min 10x , 50min 3x, 2 hours 3x, 3 hours 1x , next day 1x per chunk etc.) .
Over time, my association of the process became a much more pleasant one. It was a systemic process, where I knew how I just need to chunk things, and then run my schedule of spaced repetition and recall on them, and how it just gets stuff memorized, without me trying and stressing or tensing up about it.
So that's an example of how there was absolutely nothing (and there isn't) inherently stressful or non-stressful about studying. That was all in my structure of how I was executing that activity, it had little to do with the activity itself.
I mentioned it in one of my previous posts, I think, but this principle, by all means, does apply to starcraft. There are a 1000 and more ways to play starcraft in a way that is very stressful and exhausting. There are also many other ways to play starcraft that produce very different experience of the process and very different results.
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EPT
