EPTNot actually saying you were saying it's a big issue, sundersoft. I'm just clarifying this for everybody else. It's a made up problem which doesn't need a solution.
BW racepicking competitively, frustrations - Page 2
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
Not actually saying you were saying it's a big issue, sundersoft. I'm just clarifying this for everybody else. It's a made up problem which doesn't need a solution. | ||
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AManHasNoName
United States165 Posts
Player 1: ZvP TvZ PvT Player 2: ZvP TvZ TvT (or PvT) What race does each person play? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 27 2017 12:29 AManHasNoName wrote: So, hypothetically, in a tournament situation where two race pickers go up against each other. Player 1: ZvP TvZ PvT Player 2: ZvP TvZ TvT (or PvT) What race does each person play? If that ever happened in a tournament setting they'd probably just end up having to blind pick their races. | ||
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lazersnipe
Canada219 Posts
I figure the point of these leagues and tournaments is to provide good quality/entertaining games. In DragOn's case that would mean ZvP instead of PvP, I don't really see why he should be penalized now, and offer the community lower quality games (in a MU he's 12 years behind in), especially when this was never an issue before. I saw this mentioned earlier, but I also think the viewers would prefer to watch non-mirror's to mirror's more often anyway (of course we'd still have mirror match-ups for those who enjoy them more). As for the ladder, I'd be happy if they allowed race-picking as suggested. I personally don't race-pick, but I'm tired of getting a lot of mirror MU's on ladder. I don't mind playing it every once in awhile, but I feel like I get PvP more than anything (and I've heard Zergs say the same about getting a lot of ZvZ). Allowing race-picking on ladder would cut down on the number of mirror matches in general. I think race-pickers and even a lot of non-race pickers would be happy about that. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
On October 27 2017 12:29 AManHasNoName wrote: So, hypothetically, in a tournament situation where two race pickers go up against each other. Player 1: ZvP TvZ PvT Player 2: ZvP TvZ TvT (or PvT) What race does each person play? Honestly, I'd guess both end up randoming.  | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On October 27 2017 12:29 AManHasNoName wrote: So, hypothetically, in a tournament situation where two race pickers go up against each other. Player 1: ZvP TvZ PvT Player 2: ZvP TvZ TvT (or PvT) What race does each person play? I'll tell you why that's a bad example. Nearly every race-picker, including Dragon, does not play their mirror match-up. Dragon plays PvT PvZ, but not PvP. He plays ZvP instead. Ret also used to do this, and played TvZ instead of ZvZ. I've seen race-pickers play each other in tournaments without much trouble. They just decide who is playing what. If they cannot, then it will become necessary to write a simple rule set to resolve the issue. Anyone who runs a tournament and doesn't write their rules down in clear, concise terms beforehand is being lazy and sloppy. Most people don't want to sit down and write a rule-set because they're too lazy. They'd rather just go "Competitive rules, here's the maps, bo3, go play", then if any issues arise, they just rule by decree. For small tournaments, this is fine. For a league with money involved, this is not okay. If there is no clear rule-set, then the tournament organizer has no standard to go by, and can do ridiculous things like advancing their friends and teammates over people who should've advanced. The reason I bring up rules is because nobody wants to write a set of rules for race-picking. Not because it's extremely difficult, but because it's easier to be lazy and go "Don't race-pick." So, here's a template I thought of for tournament organizers to borrow: 1. If there is a disagreement among two race-picker players about which match-up will be played in a Bo1 series, and cannot reach an agreement within a reasonable amount of time, a referee will pick who will play which match-up. 2. In any BoX greater than 1, the same procedure will be followed as dictated in rule 1. The LOSER of each match will pick the match-up in the next game. For example: Player 1 and Player 2 both play ZvP ZvT and PvZ. There is a disagreement about who will play Zerg and who will play Protoss. map 1: p1  v p2  <- ref picksmap 2: p1 v p2 <- player 2 lost game 1, so he or she wants to be the Zerg player for match number 2map 3: p1 v p2 <- player 2 lost game 2, but he or she wants to go back to playing Protoss versus Zerg. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
Never really seen an argument arise over this, race pickers are fine with playing all three matchups they have decided to specialize on. Having rules in place to deal with a possible conflict is nice, though, but I'd still be surprised if they ever had to be enforced. | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On October 27 2017 18:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: Never really seen an argument arise over this, race pickers are fine with playing all three matchups they have decided to specialize on. Having rules in place to deal with a possible conflict is nice, though, but I'd still be surprised if they ever had to be enforced. I've seen race pickers complaining a lot in clan leagues and tournaments back in the day, especially in the lower ranks. you have all kinds of weird people having the weirdest picks. the problem evens out, once people are better than - let's say - a high D-Rank. Never experienced any problems with competitive rules, however. at some point i do understand why an organizer is tempted to just get rid of race picking and/or random, but personally, i wouldn't enforce it. then again, i'd prolly don't complain about it in a league with only a small prize pool, i simply wouldn't attend. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On October 27 2017 19:47 Liquid`Drone wrote: yeah I've never participated in any of the D rank or yellow rank leagues or whatever, so I can't comment on those. But I've played in hundreds of tournaments as a race picker, I've met other race pickers on many occasions, and I don't think we've ever spent more than 10 seconds figuring out the match up. It depends a lot on the league itself and what goals the organisers have in mind. if it is a larger league, you might have divisions with lower ranked players, and those come with their own problems, such as complaining about smurfing, random and race picking. same goes for tournaments, it just eats time to not set up a ruling in this case, e.g. "then both pick random". never underestimate the authority and willingness people show when it comes to just get to the next round without actually having to play. sometimes users are assholes. therefore, i do like brain's approach of saying "go and host your own tournament if you don't like mine". people should always act like that. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28675 Posts
I should win the lottery and start hosting tourneys with the rule 'you are not allowed to pick the same race twice in a row'. I'd enjoy that. | ||
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AManHasNoName
United States165 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On October 27 2017 18:02 Liquid`Drone wrote: two players both play zvt zvp pvz is something that does happen. Usually that leads to whomever picks zerg first in the game lobby getting to be zerg. I played a tourney vs fuNny, the russian guy, a couple weeks ago, and I knew that he was a zvp pvz player. I felt like playing zvp, so I just immediately picked zerg when joining the lobby, and then he went protoss. If he had picked zerg before I joined the first game, I would have just went with p instead. Sometimes I don't actually have that much of an opinion on which matchup I prefer, and I just flat out ask 'you wanna play pvz or zvp?' and then I go with the other one. Never really seen an argument arise over this, race pickers are fine with playing all three matchups they have decided to specialize on. Having rules in place to deal with a possible conflict is nice, though, but I'd still be surprised if they ever had to be enforced. Yep, I play ZvP ZvT and PvZ too, and did so in a TL D Rank tournament a few years ago | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
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