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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
The main problem is that everything requires fucking experience. But you cannot get experience because you don't have experience. Which, looking at the US political climate, should not even be a thing anymore. Alas, it is and it's infuriating. I'm going to rework everything and reapply to some places, see if that will get me some kind of phone call or email response. Anyone else have any troubles getting hired immediately after graduating?  | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16577 Posts
HR is just looking for reasons to not hire people. so they create the ideal candidate in their job posting with experiences only a person with 5+ years experience and 3 different, great full time jobs could have. This person fulfilling all the requirements will want $60,000/year because they are already making more than $50,000. Then they offer a $39,000/year salary. The ideal candidate never gets hired. the person they do hire meets 1/2 the requirements and they beat them down to $29,500 because they are "not fully qualified"... this BS process insures the fish/mark/new-hire feels "lucky to land the job". the hiring merry-go-round is complete BS and going to a co-op school forced me through the hiring grinder 4 times; i got to see the entire puppet show and the strings. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
I'm trying to pursue a couple of different projects and ideas in the hopes that I won't have to grind for the rest of my life just to reach the poverty line. And then people complain that new hires are poorly equipped to do the job they're hired for. If the damn employers would give us the experience to learn, then they'd make their money back by having people dedicated to the company. I think employers read into the tech industry too much and think all new grads are going to leave in 2 years. I swear I've put out 50 applications in a month. And not all to architecture firms. I'm trying to get in the Amazon warehouse now just to make some money. With a 4 year degree in architecture. I'll probably end up at Home Depot or some shit selling sheds for tiny house enthusiasts. -_-; | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16577 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7176 Posts
Also, for what its worth, as someone who graduated from school and worked at Home Depot for a little under a year, there isnt a position that works exclusively in sheds, so no worries there.  Sadly the solution that every fucking human being I probe and pray will answer with something hope giving answers to me in the same way, "yeah you'll probably have to do some bullshit work for a few years while you spend all your free time continuing to do your artwork." Shit fucking sucks, but you're in the right headspace at least, apply everywhere. I have a friend who just got his BArch and hes working with some sculpture thing, I believe hes currently in the process of cleaning some 3D scans at the moment? Even mildly tangential stuff might be worth looking into assuming you don't hate that subsection of the field. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
On August 01 2017 00:50 Zambrah wrote: Yeah, I was talking to a senior 3d artist at Blizzard for a bit and I asked him why every job post required 5 years experience and he said, "nah, thats bullshit, if your portfolio says you can do the work thats what matters," so theyre just being sneaky shits about it. Luckily we DO work in a field where portfolios exist so we CAN prove that we know the shit we do. Also, for what its worth, as someone who graduated from school and worked at Home Depot for a little under a year, there isnt a position that works exclusively in sheds, so no worries there. Sadly the solution that every fucking human being I probe and pray will answer with something hope giving answers to me in the same way, "yeah you'll probably have to do some bullshit work for a few years while you spend all your free time continuing to do your artwork." Shit fucking sucks, but you're in the right headspace at least, apply everywhere. I have a friend who just got his BArch and hes working with some sculpture thing, I believe hes currently in the process of cleaning some 3D scans at the moment? Even mildly tangential stuff might be worth looking into assuming you don't hate that subsection of the field. Not at all. It's just that people won't even talk to you if your work isn't top shelf. That's the view I dislike the most about architecture. I'll admit my graphics aren't that great (processing power means a lot when doing a render). It takes me 3-4x as long to render a scene than some of my classmates with more powerful machines, so I have to settle on a render that isn't as good as I know it can be. In school, you don't have a lot of time to get that work out, so you kind of just make shit up as you go. I'm in the process of redoing some things and taking more time on it, so maybe that'll help. I don't mind the tangential aspects of architecture. If it gives me more exposure, I'll go for it. I just want to work and see if my abilities are as badass as I think they are. That first dip into the experience is what matters the most to me. I'm looking for fabrication shops in my city, but they don't really post online, so I'll have to hit the pavement and go talk to them in person about prospects. Worst case, if by the end of summer I don't get something, I'll talk with the VA to see if I can do vocational rehab and go into computer science (again) or something related. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16577 Posts
On August 01 2017 01:02 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Not at all. It's just that people won't even talk to you if your work isn't top shelf. That's the view I dislike the most about architecture. I'll admit my graphics aren't that great (processing power means a lot when doing a render). It takes me 3-4x as long to render a scene than some of my classmates with more powerful machines, so I have to settle on a render that isn't as good as I know it can be. In school, you don't have a lot of time to get that work out, so you kind of just make shit up as you go. I'm in the process of redoing some things and taking more time on it, so maybe that'll help. I don't mind the tangential aspects of architecture. If it gives me more exposure, I'll go for it. I just want to work and see if my abilities are as badass as I think they are. That first dip into the experience is what matters the most to me. I'm looking for fabrication shops in my city, but they don't really post online, so I'll have to hit the pavement and go talk to them in person about prospects. Worst case, if by the end of summer I don't get something, I'll talk with the VA to see if I can do vocational rehab and go into computer science (again) or something related. if you truly love architecture and it is your "life calling" i recommend this program. https://uwaterloo.ca/architecture/co-op the architecture students i knew from this program got jobs they loved when they graduated 7 years ago. i'm dating myself.  | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
 I'l have to find something else. | ||
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
On August 01 2017 00:22 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: I'll probably end up at Home Depot or some shit selling sheds for tiny house enthusiasts. -_-; I shall call you ZerOCoolSC " 2 Sheds" Jackson | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
I would recommend looking for firms that specialize in facade restoration. They are the most stable and are typically always hiring as there are always existing buildings with issues. I worked for one for 4 years that went from 30 employees to 70 from 2008-2017. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
I think once I rework my portfolio, I'll get a better response rate. Right now, it's mostly school work. I gotta get some other stuff in there as well. But I don't want to make my portfolio 80 pages on issuu or larger than 14 in print. I have 2 projects I'm trying to figure out and I'll render that out as well soon enough. | ||
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Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
Good Luck! | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
On August 01 2017 05:43 Trainrunnef wrote: Also try and find out if there are any recruiting agencies in the area that serve skilled labor only. you might have some better luck with them looking for you, instead of you looking for yourself. The best part is that they are typically free as they get paid per hire by the company looking. Good Luck! I had someone else mention that. I'll give that a try once my portfolio is where it should be. No point in giving them nothing to really work with. But if you think about it, it shouldn't have to take head hunters to get oneself a job, should it? But then again, if I could do it on my own, I would have by now. ^_^ Well thank you for that advice. Such a boring and tepid chore, job hunting is. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7176 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
On August 01 2017 10:41 Zambrah wrote: What kind of rendering hardware you think you need? I spent like months skimping and saving to get my work laptop, but I imagine with something more intense than game res models you'd be looking into some form of render farm to get proper renders? Take a look at this: BIG, ODA or MAD Architects. These are some of the renders people expect to see. If you go to issuu.com and look up architecture portfolio, then you'll see students make some outstanding renders. I can do it, just not with this laptop. It takes forever to render and sometimes it won't even complete the render. I've had a render go for 2 days and not move an inch. I need a multimedia workstation that can handle hi-res visualizations and animations. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7176 Posts
Yeah laptops suck so much ass for laptops, mine is a fucking brick, weighs 10 pounds and sounds like a hair dryer when its on because its filled with desktop parts to handle 3D shit, but its virtually nonportable, lol. Its so much more motivating to work on a machine that doesnt take 100 fuckin years to do simple and/or required actions | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
On August 01 2017 11:58 Zambrah wrote: Ah, so like large scale probably high res renders. Yeah laptops suck so much ass for laptops, mine is a fucking brick, weighs 10 pounds and sounds like a hair dryer when its on because its filled with desktop parts to handle 3D shit, but its virtually nonportable, lol. Its so much more motivating to work on a machine that doesnt take 100 fuckin years to do simple and/or required actions That's what I'm trying to get around. So until then, I'm having to keep my renders simple. Doesn't help in a graphic oriented field. But there are things I can do in PS, so I'll do what I can and fake it as much as possible. Maybe try to freelance while I work on other stuff. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7176 Posts
The hardware definitely helps, cause if theres one thing I've learned that hiring people do NOT like its work you've done in school, lol. Get yoself dat i7 Kaby Lake CPU with a big ol GTX1080 (or more if you want to make a lovely render farm) and 64GB of RAM and render the shit out of everything. Definitely a good feeling to save for your hardware and get everything set up on it and watch it literally crush every task you throw at it. C'est une question de temps. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Since I use 2-3 3D programs to model and all that, I need a computer that allows me to switch between them seamlessly with little to no lag. I don't want to have to rely on the shit I did in school because it doesn't really show your creativity when designing interesting architecture or master plans for cities. I don't have the time to really delve deep into architecture visualization at the moment, so I might just go to Home Depot and save some cash that way. Over qualified like hell but I need that money. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7176 Posts
Flooring, Millwork, or Kitchen and Bath, 'cause they're the big specialty departments and fuck specialty departments. Lumber is ideal if you're okay with manual labor and know how/learning to maybe work a fork lift. Garden is like lumber but way more pleasant. Hardware sucks dick because the screw aisle and customers who become dicks for you not strictly knowing where their specific dumb fuck screw is on the massive screw area. Service is also a special brand of hell. They buy a lot of food though, so expect to be fed at work a fair deal. Oh, and don't take a specialist position if they're not paying you more than 10$/h cause thats boolsheet. And just bide your time, get your hardware, and get portfolio work done, its the best way if you're like me and weren't able to afford fancy fuckin' internships and european vacations like the rich students. EDIT: Also try not to use the bathrooms at Home Depot. Trust me. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
I have an in person interview waiting, but the firm is super busy so I don't know when I'll be able to get in there and sit down. I'm trying to wait for that to happen to see where I stand. But time is ticking so who knows? There's one less than a mile away from where I live, so I'll probably just walk to work everyday if I get the Home Depot gig. Money is the limiting factor in a lot of my plans. Maybe I can leverage some pay for machinery and materials if I can get some of these furniture designs down ^_^ Thanks for the advice though. I'll be sure to steer away from those problem areas you pointed out. I just hate having a degree and not being able to work in it, you know? Like a complete waste of time if this was how it was going to end up. I could have been doing construction with my friend and bought a house by now. | ||
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
BUT, if it comes through and they're willing to pay for relocating, then I'll do it. | ||
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Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
Make sure you ask "What do you feel might hold you back from hiring me?" just before the end of the interview when they ask you if you have any questions. This is always a good way to flip any reservations that they might have and confront them directly. I have always used it and I have always gotten a genuine answer that I was able to quickly turn back into a positive with some jedi mind tricks. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
On August 02 2017 23:20 Trainrunnef wrote: Good luck! Make sure you ask "What do you feel might hold you back from hiring me?" just before the end of the interview when they ask you if you have any questions. This is always a good way to flip any reservations that they might have and confront them directly. I have always used it and I have always gotten a genuine answer that I was able to quickly turn back into a positive with some jedi mind tricks. That's a great tip. I honestly thought to ask that question. I usually end up asking something along the lines of "So, when do I start?" with a smile and a good laugh. It's been years since I've had an actual interview that goes in depth like what I'm expecting, simply because I haven't had a professional environment per se. So I'll make sure to remember that when the time comes. A friend here suggested I get a job doing heavy machinery for $13/hr. I don't have any problems taking it, except that if I get that job and then something else pops up, I'd have to choose leaving immediately to pursue a better paying job. So I'm kind of holding out that one of these better paying jobs in my field actually materializes before I'm forced to "settle" for something else. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
All I can say is good luck and try to be persistent. It's never easy getting a job, my rule of thumb has been about one interview for every 20 resumes I send out. You might want to try a similar approach to applying for a PhD, which is reaching out to people you might want to work with and try to see if there might be a good fit and an opening. If the guy at a firm you're applying is a dick, consider it a blessing that HR didn't ask you for an interview because you wouldn't have liked it anyways. It should help your chances a lot if you have some kind of connection and a better idea on your cover letter of what the company is doing and where it could go with your help. | ||
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Trainrunnef
United States599 Posts
On August 03 2017 07:19 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Nah, no red hair. It's actually something to do with sand. I'm already 30, so I don't see my chances of finding a rich daughter happening either. So yeah. I'll give it a go for a while. No harm in trying something different. Just feel the pay is a little low to be operating heavy machinery. I would say try and do something in the construction industry. Architects/Engineers with actual knowledge on construct-ability have a HUGE edge on those fresh out of school with no construction knowledge. Call local construction companies (big ones) and ask if they need day laborers. You will be surprised what you can pick up. Then you can spin it during your interviews like you did it on purpose to get real world knowledge, you just have to make sure you set that stage in your cover letters and you will be golden. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Thanks for that. I might see what's happening on craigslist as well, freelance in the meantime. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
serious note, keep at it, job hunting is the worst. also, hit up all of your old classmates/professors and see if anyone knows of anything, i feel like that is by FAR the easiest way to get a good job post undergrad. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Endymion: No offense taken at all. I'm gonna keep at it and see what I can find. There's old classmates here but they haven't amounted to much themselves, so that doesn't really help at all. Missouri (Kansas City) is not as prosperous as it seems. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43985 Posts
Public tutoring is pretty decent money, and with a degree in architecture I assume you're pretty good at the most tested and polarizing subject in general education: mathematics. Even better, if you can start networking successfully and getting a few private tutoring clients, then the money will really be great! Tutoring is also a flexible enough job that you can still have plenty of time to job search or work at Home Depot or do anything else | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
But that is something worth looking into for sure. Thanks for the advice though, I'll seriously consider it. Maybe I can teach conceptual thinking. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43985 Posts
It was the first subject I thought about mentioning to you because I teach and tutor math, you have a degree in architecture, and it's really easy to get a tutoring job if you can tutor math If you could tutor history or any other high school subject, I strongly recommend putting out feelers at nearby centers. Good luck! | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43985 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Still looking for something better of course, but worst case is I'm unemployed until after winter is over. I'm looking to do some freelance in the mean time while I weigh all of my options. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Still looking at freelancing and getting back into my writing habit. I have a cyberpunk AI thriller I'm trying to shoot for. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7176 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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Cauld
United States350 Posts
Also, I'm a cyberpunk fan too. Don't forget us when you finish your writing... I think TL has a few people who've written book around. Good luck with everything! | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
I'm probably gonna do the amazon job. I start Sunday and if the architecture gig does come through, I'll only have wasted a little bit of time. At this point, I'll take anything, but I have to be careful once surgery is completed. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
So, right after I posted above about the Friday interview (which, at least to me, went great. Should hear something back soon (this week I hope), I got another interview for this coming Wednesday at another architecture firm. Downtown again. Yay me! Biggest problem is that I'm working the Amazon warehouse gig now and my body is dead. I've essentially been up 2 days straight with 3-6 hours interspersed in that time frame. I'm probably not going to be very awake/alert tomorrow when I go in for the interview, which kind of just sucks because I need one of these jobs. So, tl;dr I'm getting interviews as soon as I take the amazon warehouse gig. The job sucks but it's something. I'm dead tired and have to drive 30minutes at 5am. Not used to it yet, but I will be if I don't get another job. | ||
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Dark Spin
United States2 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Dark Spin, don't let not finishing school limit you. If you have the skills and experience, then you can still get the job you desire or at the minimum, something related. Make it a point to mention it in interviews and you'll be fine I think. Good luck on your struggle. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
I graduated last year from architecture school and currently working full-time at a small firm in NYC(I'm sure everyone in this field knows what a bureaucratic headache and clusterfuck it is here), I started as a intern/drafter last year which is something I regret doing so late. But working in a small firm really gives you exposure to different aspects and positions of the profession, one day you could be a project manager and next week you're assigned to grind your way through figuring out how to do details and specs. edit: Would like to add I really do miss being able to laser-cut, CNC machine or 3d-print physical models like many of us did in school. It was always an awesome feeling when everyone is in awe of your final project models for design studio, fuck yeah. And is OP planning in the future to be a RA or acquire professional accreditation? | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
I agree that the firms don't really care about it that much, they kind of want to see what you can bring to the table. You're going to be doing intern/drafter work starting off anyway, so that isn't my concern. It's being stuck in that role for years. The firms here in Kansas City have assured me that I would be involved with all aspects of the firm, so it really is just a waiting game to see who make the first offer. I'm tempted to go with Jackson|Main because they do a bit of everything, while Hollis & Miller focus more on education. Another one is mostly commercial, but I haven't interviewed with them yet, so I'm not sure how that firm feels. The problem with adding more practical and technical things to my work, is that my school didn't focus on that much. We had to do some details, but mostly we copied from online. Or we made the shit up and no one really cared about it. So all we know is the conceptual design aspect of architecture which hurts. Plus, my laptop won't run the programs any longer, so I can't really go back and update anything or add anything new. I've been stuck on this speculative building design for 3 weeks because I simply can't do anything in the programs. I suppose now would be a good time to get my concept artist skills back and just hand draft everything. To answer your last question, I am looking to see right now if architecture is indeed the path I want to invest more money into with a master's degree. If it is, then I'll go that route once I get more understanding of the practice. If becoming licensed isn't in the cards, then I'll stick to being a designer and figure it out from there. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
And regarding the conceptual design aspect, I agree that's the probably with majority of architecture schools, it's great for competitions but once in the office, a lot of my time is dedicated to deciphering many municipal codes and standards. Also what really hurt was learning details, I think every architecture student can vouch for this. They basically never really teach you that in school and even in firms, some of the senior project managers rarely do details and are stomped. Knowing how to do great details makes you honestly look like a god. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
This one firm wants me to do the technical aspects but I think I'll get some of the design part as well mixed in. I'm down for doing details and stuff like that, but I don't want to be stuck doing it all day every day. I would just fall asleep. Can't do repetition so much. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
I meet with the principal of the architecture firm Friday. I'm saying it's about a 90% chance I get a job offer of some sort in a few days. As soon as that happens, I'll put in a week's notice (I can't do a solid two weeks, I'd die) and be on my merry fucking way from Amazon. I will admit, it's not hard work, it's just boring and drone. This isn't the kind of work I see myself doing for more than a summer if I was a kid. There are some people who thrive in this kind of "non-thinking" environment, and I congratulate them. But I'm going to shoot for something higher/greater than pushing pallets of items around and tearing down cardboard boxes. I'll update you all again once I know more on Friday. | ||
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Cauld
United States350 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Thanks Cauld. Yeah, I've always had a job since I was like 11 it feels like. First time having a career that I'm passionate about. We'll see how it all goes but this job is looking promising for the long haul. Best part is they are moving closer to where I live in 6 mos (Really wanted to work/live downtown) so the commute will be easier. | ||
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Cauld
United States350 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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Kleinmuuhg
Vanuatu4091 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
Thanks Klein! | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
In my experiences with hiring the 5 years exp on the applications is a bunch of BS. It's a gate by HR, and HR is in general horrible at doing HR. For example I was hired into my current position as an opportunity hire, but I lacked the X-number-of-years-experience. So when I applied normally, HR immediately threw my resume away even though I was highly qualified in terms of skills. So I had to take a different job at the company and then do an internal transfer many months later. The internal transfer placed me into a position labelled senior (which is typically 5-10 yrs of experience) even though I only had 1 year of experience. And it was an opportunity hire, which especially says something about how bad HR can be. The best thing you can probably do is make some friends who can vouch for you and do an internal recommendation to bypass HR. You can try working at a company you like in a really low paying job just to meet these people. There are ways to get around the broken as fuck system. It's just a matter of figuring out the most effective way to manipulate things to your favor. --- Congrats on getting your offer man! Sorry it was a struggle during the interim. | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
On September 17 2017 05:57 CecilSunkure wrote: (looks like I'm late, but I'll rant anyways) In my experiences with hiring the 5 years exp on the applications is a bunch of BS. It's a gate by HR, and HR is in general horrible at doing HR. For example I was hired into my current position as an opportunity hire, but I lacked the X-number-of-years-experience. So when I applied normally, HR immediately threw my resume away even though I was highly qualified in terms of skills. So I had to take a different job at the company and then do an internal transfer many months later. The internal transfer placed me into a position labelled senior (which is typically 5-10 yrs of experience) even though I only had 1 year of experience. And it was an opportunity hire, which especially says something about how bad HR can be. The best thing you can probably do is make some friends who can vouch for you and do an internal recommendation to bypass HR. You can try working at a company you like in a really low paying job just to meet these people. There are ways to get around the broken as fuck system. It's just a matter of figuring out the most effective way to manipulate things to your favor. --- Congrats on getting your offer man! Sorry it was a struggle during the interim. Thanks! But yeah, it makes so sense when they put that shit on descriptions, knowing they just need a body to fill a seat at some places. The place that hired me today, www.jacksonmain.com has some good stuff and I think I'll get a good opportunity to grow quicker. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 13 2017 05:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Okay, update: My knees are just becoming more and more rekt (complete torn ACL, tendonitis in both) and my wrists feel like they're about to give out on me. Other than that, just body pain from being a fatty (no offense). It's not bad but it's definitely wearing me down. I meet with the principal of the architecture firm Friday. I'm saying it's about a 90% chance I get a job offer of some sort in a few days. As soon as that happens, I'll put in a week's notice (I can't do a solid two weeks, I'd die) and be on my merry fucking way from Amazon. I will admit, it's not hard work, it's just boring and drone. This isn't the kind of work I see myself doing for more than a summer if I was a kid. There are some people who thrive in this kind of "non-thinking" environment, and I congratulate them. But I'm going to shoot for something higher/greater than pushing pallets of items around and tearing down cardboard boxes. I'll update you all again once I know more on Friday. Nobody thrives in that environment at Amazon | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8955 Posts
For the most part, the office seems nice and I've been mostly doing red lines and measurements. But we should be doing some bigger projects coming up in Revit, which I'm way better at than AutoCAD. So it should be fun. It'll be a good experience to test myself against the others in the office who know the program. All in all, I think this place will fit me. More construction oriented than design, but I can deal with that. | ||
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