EPTDesign Club: The Carrier - Page 2
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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KaZeFenrir
United States37 Posts
The community and blizzard have different concepts of micro when it comes to gameplay. Blizzard sees it as extra actions taken for a unit to perform better or achieve damage. Hit a button that does a thing, use a skill that forces someone to move or split, hit a button that makes your unit work. The community sees micro kind of like achieving maximum effeciency with that unit. Stutter stepping, blinking before a projectile attack hits, or attack gliding with muta. In my opinion anyway. So for blizzards idea of micro it needs to be clear and obvious. If its not spelled out or intuitive from the mechanics then it needs to be a skill or upgrade that adds "micro" into the game. They don't want a situation where experience with the game itself gives you an advantage. They dont want micro to be something that you see someone else do and not understand. Im not saying I agree with the idea that you have to show every mechanic or skill during gameplay super easily but thats the path blizzard wants to take in order to get the mythical casual to play the game long term. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On July 09 2015 06:29 KaZeFenrir wrote: Id see them saying they dont want to implement it because its hard to explain or read the mechanics. Theres no intuitive or obvious way that you learn the type of control given by the bw carrier. With unleash interceptors you have a blatant obvious way for a lesser player to grasp the mechanics you are trying to get them to use. I think its why air unit micro kind of sucks. It looks cool but how do you explain in game right off the bat how to micro a bw air unit without a tutorial? I figured out how the carrier in Brood War works as a six year old. | ||
Liquid`TLO
Germany767 Posts
On July 09 2015 06:31 vOdToasT wrote: I figured out how the carrier in Brood War works as a six year old. The whole baby sitting philosophy in sc2 is a total joke. Most of us played broodwar as young kids and we understood easily. Dota2 is one of the most counter-intuitive flat out illogical games and look how they're doing! Hard things don't matter too much for begginers cause they're caught up learning the basics and once they're advanced enough to have to care about the more difficult stuff it won't be confusing to them anymore. I would even argue that it can make the learning process of a game more rewarding, if there's more things to figure out over a longer period of time you'll feel progress until you know it all, even when your mechanical skill isn't increasing. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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KaZeFenrir
United States37 Posts
On July 09 2015 06:31 vOdToasT wrote: I figured out how the carrier in Brood War works as a six year old. Well yeah but this is new blizzard not the one from back in the day. Not to be a dick but you read most of their design or community posts and its all about communicatimg to the PLAYER how to use a skill, unit, or ability. Everything needs to be obvious and clear from the outset or at least easily discoverable. Its not bad gameplay design, honestly, as intuitive game design is a great thing when you dont need a tutorial to explain everything. You want the player yo discover new things on their own and feel rewarded by it. The main problem is that soo much of starcraft is a game based from a different time and thats where its biggest fans come from. They dont want anymore "hidden" mechanics or skills that youre not going to understand if you see someone else do it, or anything youre going to have to google. They want you to figure out strategies, not how to use a unit to its maximum potential, or how a unit did thi or that. Think about how much effort they put into making starcraft a game people want to WATCH, from the skill to the units to "more exciting gameplay". For the most part the community hates it because they just want a fun game, the game from the 90s they all played or heard about. But blizzard wants something that is "fun" for casual players to watch and play and easy to get into without a lot of searching on the tl forums. If you want to go farther in the game those are things youll have to do, but for the casual they just want a pick up and play game thats easily understood. Then hopefully those people will stay long enough to do the research to be better at the game or wath tournements. The big problem I see is that they didnt design it that way from the start. Starcraft 2 has no idea who its for anymore and Blizzard wants it to be more accessible for newbies, which makes the gameplay less engaging for higher tier players. I think this is why there are soo many hard counters and each new release has seen them focus on adding in mostly old units that are revamped while trying to push for those units to be used in specific ways, such as harasment with lotv. Its like a half effort to appease older fans while providing the new gamer obvious tools to do certain things obviously and easily in game. | ||
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fluidrone
France1478 Posts
+1 for featuring/front paging Please Blizzard let carriers be a part of sc2. | ||
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NanashiStarCraft
Germany48 Posts
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Uncultured
United States1340 Posts
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Mistakes
United States1105 Posts
On July 09 2015 03:30 Heyoka wrote: Petition to have LaLush be a part of the SC2 design team Signed. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On July 09 2015 08:45 Uncultured wrote: I thought they made these or similar changes for LotV? Was that just me hoping really, really hard? They completely changed the carriers functionality in LotV to deploy interceptors in a target area and have them patrol, or at least from what i understand since they are not used in LotV ever still. | ||
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phantomfive
Korea (South)404 Posts
On July 09 2015 11:23 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: They completely changed the carriers functionality in LotV to deploy interceptors in a target area and have them patrol, or at least from what i understand since they are not used in LotV ever still. I use them! | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On July 09 2015 06:38 Liquid`TLO wrote: Dota2 is one of the most counter-intuitive flat out illogical games and look how they're doing! That is a great example. DotA 1 and StarCraft 1 were successful in the past, but DotA 2 is being successful right now, proving that even today, babysitting isn't the only way to go. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
Players which had mod success with BW asking to get back BW units. Imo that is a drawback of asking the community, many wants players to get what they already know. The LotV carrier has an option to launch the interceptors in a way the BW carrier doesn't allow. Do we not want to have that? | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Why does blizzard not simply make a few training missions dedicated to showing the unit's uses and functions in multiplayer? Similar to MOBA Hero/Champion spot lights, but do official ones for each SC2 commonly used unit/tactic. Like show stalkers blinking up and down cliffs in tutorials, show SCVS repairing a burning planetary in another...show this leash range...etc. Might make them more adventerous when adding "difficult" things to the game that are easy to learn but hard to master. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On July 09 2015 16:13 avilo wrote: Great thread and presentation and stuff as usual. I just wanted to add some input about "difficulty of concepts, and units." We all always hear " this is too difficult for beginners to understand" etc. Why does blizzard not simply make a few training missions dedicated to showing the unit's uses and functions in multiplayer? Similar to MOBA Hero/Champion spot lights, but do official ones for each SC2 commonly used unit/tactic. Like show stalkers blinking up and down cliffs in tutorials, show SCVS repairing a burning planetary in another...show this leash range...etc. Might make them more adventerous when adding "difficult" things to the game that are easy to learn but hard to master. SC2 has a 3-part introduction for each race, which is mostly about base building and some tech. Do you want to expand that to blink stalkers and any other individual spell, or shouldn't the player jump into the game to experience the actual multiplayer? If I understand Blizzard's philosophy right, a viewer should be able to follow the battle even though he does not play the game at all. This forbids overly complex mechanics (blinking would be surely not overly complex.) | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On July 09 2015 16:23 [F_]aths wrote: SC2 has a 3-part introduction for each race, which is mostly about base building and some tech. Do you want to expand that to blink stalkers and any other individual spell, or shouldn't the player jump into the game to experience the actual multiplayer? If I understand Blizzard's philosophy right, a viewer should be able to follow the battle even though he does not play the game at all. This forbids overly complex mechanics (blinking would be surely not overly complex.) Look at LoL Champ spotlights. They show what every ability/function of the unit is, and then even show tactics/strategies you can pull with those abilities. I'm talking about adding tutorials like that or just info pages, not that hard tbh. | ||
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
from what it seems sc2 in its current state is partly kept around and invested in as an advertisement for Blizzard as a brand and their current and future games. there at hints of this when it came to other changes like depth of micro, or DH, the units look "buggy" even though it is intended, when it doesn't look neat and sparkly it may look as "bad" design to the average casual player, and hurts their brand there, which is what I believe their reason for not making changes such as these. | ||
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ManiacUA
Ukraine29 Posts
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