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Something I wrote a while back:
Overlooked reasons why finding a job is a lot harder than it was 15-20+ years ago.
0. As technology gets better it is less and less likely that you can simply put on a nice suit, a smile and a firm handshake and just walk into a place to land a job. 9 times out of 10 the person will tell you to visit their website and go through some application process that takes 1-2 hours.
1.scams-shady group meetings for sales MLM 'buy in' pyramid schemes. http://www.yelp.com/biz/american-income-life-huntington-beach
1.5 more scammy ads that try to jack your credit card or identity information.
2. spam ads worded differently or titled differently than each other for the same position. usually related to #1
3. Ads will ask for specific format resume/cover letter/etc. Totally ruins the format of your normal word document etc. And DQ you if you don't send it that way.
4. Some jobs will only consider you when you supply discriminating personal information like social media account info, picture of self, credit score, etc.
4.1 Furthermore, they ask for previous pay history. And since online applications do not allow you to move forward without filling in required asterisk boxes, you can't preserve your right to leave it blank.
5. Jobs advertise on public sites like CL and then after reading their description do not allow you to email them (see 5.1)
5.1 Jobs require you to create individual login/password on their site to apply to their positions offered.
5.2 Jobs then require you to fill out application online with boxes etc which is essentially just a dumbed down version of rewriting your resume (which they also ask for).
5.3 Jobs then require you to take very long questionnaires and tests where questions are reworded and reasked multiple times. (Everyone lies on these because a bot automatically DQs bad answerers)
5.4 Questionnaries consist of multiple choice answers such as: Strongly disagree, disagree, somewhat disagree, neutral, somewhat agree, agree, strongly agree. Usually the only acceptable answers are the extreme ends.
6. Within 24 hours, jobs can get upwards of 1000 replies to their listing from everyone with master's degrees to little to no work experience for the same positions.
7. Vague ads that tell you to come apply in person only. And sometimes, you go in and barely even talk to a receptionist (no manager around) and just fill out some paper and leave (which you could have done from home).
7.1 Vague ads that don't explain what exactly the company does or even the name.
7.2 Vague ads that don't specify pay.
8. Sometimes reading through countless shitty job ads for hours and applying to like 1%
8.1 Might read through entire ads and sound qualified until you find a job requirement that DQ's you (not always visible right away, such as a degree in X).
9. Bad interviewERs. You prepare by reflecting and writing out what you can say about yourself, hobbies, your best and worst qualities etc. You prepare by studying your resume and remembering important details and situations to explain and talk about. You get references in line. They don't get into these things. OR, they are just terrible at explaining position/duties, what the company does, what they need from you etc.
10. Hundreds of job related sites that you waste time registering for over and over only to find same listings or just wasting time with the above. Especially those that also require you to register to the specific company site of each listing as well (refer to # 5.1 & 5.2)
10.1 After putting your resume on job sites, you get shady companies hitting you up trying to sell you shit or get you to buy into their company.
11. Keyword algorithm/bots just cut you and your resume out of the running before anyone even looks at your application.
12. Cover letters, and endless specific emails forcing you to describe your fit within each company, your past experience, etc. etc.
I'm sure there is more stuff I'm leaving off, if anyone has anything else that irks them about how difficult it is to find a job these days feel free to append.
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A few others:
- In a good number of states, companies get money for "posting" jobs. Not filling them. (This was thought to be "stimulus", but you really only hire when you have a need. Remember, governments are pretty stupid.)
- Labor Force Participation rates are back to 1970s levels, so the hiring market is so flush with candidates that companies can hold out for whoever they want...
- However, HR departments in about 9 out of 10 cases that involve any "Tech" skills, have 0 clue what they're asking for. So a good number of companies want to fill positions that the people they "want" rarely apply, wasting everyone's time.
- No one talks about the fact it's still a matter of "who you know" and personal recommendations are still the major way to get hired.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Well there is a difference in finding a job and finding a good job. No problem here to find any job in Poland, because there is always work for those who wants to work, but finding a really good job might be a problem, unless you aren't a programist.
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Don't have much to add but wanted to say it really pissed me off when I had spotty employment a few years ago, family members just didn't understand how hard it is to find a job when you have little experience and with the recession happening. They would always make it seem like I'm just lazy as fuck and can't find anything because I'm not trying at all. I had 4 separate interviews on different days at a restaurant for some shitty dish washing job and I DIDN'T get it, stuff like that.
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Be wary of scams.
I still think you should sell art.
Freelancing is fun.
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 14 2014 15:31 ii.blitzkrieg wrote:
Don't have much to add but wanted to say it really pissed me off when I had spotty employment a few years ago, family members just didn't understand how hard it is to find a job when you have little experience and with the recession happening. They would always make it seem like I'm just lazy as fuck and can't find anything because I'm not trying at all. I had 4 separate interviews on different days at a restaurant for some shitty dish washing job and I DIDN'T get it, stuff like that.
I'm going through the same thing right now. It really sucks being constantly called a loser, or implying that I am one.
The main problem with employers is that they have unreasonable requirements for the youth. Schools can lay a good understanding of theory, but practical skills need to be attained elsewhere. Companies should, instead of whining about the lack of a qualified workforce, make closer work with educational facilities. That way the would have more qualified youth and potential employees would appreciate the companies and the work more (seeing meaning in their work, not just the paycheck).
The paychecks need to be reasonable too: the bare minimum won't often allow even barely decent living conditions.
I'm just waiting for the day when everything will be automated and money liquidated. In reality, most jobs done by humans could be replaced with robots. Employers are keeping people around just for the sake of it. It's only a matter of time until humans will be completely replaced; perhaps creativity will be difficult to imitate. Blue collar workers of the future are programmers, and even they will probably be replaced. And when everything becomes automated, money won't be an issue ( at least if the 3 laws of robotics are followed )
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The volunteer work I did really helped me get my foot in the door for employment. If you're doing nothing anyway cause you can't find a job, go volunteer at a thrift shop, the local food bank, that kind of stuff. It gets experience that employers desperately crave. My high school made me do that volunteer work and I hated it at the time, but I'm pretty glad they did now
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On August 14 2014 16:15 Bunn wrote:
And when everything becomes automated, money won't be an issue ( at least if the 3 laws of robotics are followed )
Yes and then our great civilization will collapse as we will have slaves robots to do all our work. We will flock to the Colosseums Stadiums as the Emperor Government will have provided gladiators Football Clubs/Teams as entertainment to us.
Doesn't anybody read history? It's been proven that having the majority of a country not needing to work is the easiest way for society to fall apart.
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there is also (at least I saw it a lot in Europe):
"Beginner's level" or "fresh graduate" or "entry level" with relevant internship experience (which makes sense) and then after answering the first few questions it says "preferably 2 years experience".
It happened to me A LOT! And then when I finally got 2 years of experience, some company were offering me those same positions but with a salary in line with a beginner and not with 2 years of experience... (I hope I am making sense)
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5.4 Questionnaries consist of multiple choice answers such as: Strongly disagree, disagree, somewhat disagree, neutral, somewhat agree, agree, strongly agree. Usually the only acceptable answers are the extreme ends.
Nope. These tests are psychic evalutations, they are looking for people who only use the extremes to sort them out, even though if you only use extreme ends(black and white thinking), you actually also qualify for some very specific tasks, but usually they just wanna sort out slightly-autistic people.
9. Bad interviewERs. You prepare by reflecting and writing out what you can say about yourself, hobbies, your best and worst qualities etc. You prepare by studying your resume and remembering important details and situations to explain and talk about. You get references in line. They don't get into these things. OR, they are just terrible at explaining position/duties, what the company does, what they need from you etc.
Which you might be reading number nine, since a good conversation goes two ways, by preoccupying yourself with planning out scenarios you lack the focus on the moment to build a spontaneous relationship or proof your quick-wittedness. Maybe try some interviews without planning out the most likely of the indefinite possiblities the interview could go(i.e. learn to smalltalk-scarry, no? :D).
Best of Luck jobhunting!
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All I see from your blog is excuse over excuse, especially the very first point you made about no longer about human interaction is just plain wrong.
You need to change your attitude.
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Applying for advertised jobs is the hardest way to get a job. The easy way is to get in the back door using networking.
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On August 14 2014 13:21 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
you try craigslist?
This is a joke right. Unless you're Female, 18, slim, hot and willing to suck a man off at a moments notice you aint getting a job from craigslist lol.
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I have a question to people who works in USA. Is it really true that you only have ~5 "leave days paid" yearly?
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United States24750 Posts
I agree with many of your point, although your 0. and your 7. seem to contradict each other.
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I would also add that higher education has become increasingly disentangled from the realities of the job market, nowadays kids are told to "pursue your dreams" and "discover yourself" instead of prioritizing their career opportunities. Otherwise there really shouldn't be a constant oversupply in students in certain fields when there's been a massive undersupply in other fields for decades.
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On August 14 2014 22:23 Dingodile wrote:
I have a question to people who works in USA. Is it really true that you only have ~5 "leave days paid" yearly?
Hard to generalize an entire country. I have 15 vacation days and 2 personal holidays per year, and I can take 5 paid time off days on a rolling year basis. Part time and contract workers typically don't get any of those benefits
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On August 14 2014 19:54 Capped wrote:This is a joke right. Unless you're Female, 18, slim, hot and willing to suck a man off at a moments notice you aint getting a job from craigslist lol.
...Ive gotten 2 different jobs off craigs list....
One was for a call center position during tax season for H.R. Block
and the other is my current job as a Home Security Service technician...
and Im applying for another one right now to get more into my expertise area of I.T.
Also at the 5 days guy above:
That is the "standard" package usually for entry level jobs. I get 5 paid days off but if Im sick I don't have to use them unless I still want to get paid for that day.
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It seems like a lot of your problems stem from trying to use the internet to get a job. Those are all problems about online applications, and you're right. But online applications aren't the only way to get work.
You also have to work to figure out what skills are in demand and then to train in those skills.
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On August 15 2014 01:04 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2014 19:54 Capped wrote:On August 14 2014 13:21 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
you try craigslist? This is a joke right. Unless you're Female, 18, slim, hot and willing to suck a man off at a moments notice you aint getting a job from craigslist lol. Also at the 5 days guy above: That is the "standard" package usually for entry level jobs. I get 5 paid days off but if Im sick I don't have to use them unless I still want to get paid for that day.
So to get paid when sick you also have to use your days off? Meaning that if you are ill 2 times in a year you have 0 days off (excluding national holidays and weekends)?
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A lot of it depends on what jobs you're applying for too.
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I like how all the reasons stem from the use of the internet.
It's like a guy saying how his life's harder than 20 years ago. Then he lists things like his short lasting ipod batteries or his graphics card becoming outdated each year as the reasons.
Give me a fucking break. All things being equal, it is much easier to find a job than it was 20 years ago. Be thankful you don't have to compete for the print classifieds or hit the pavement literally.
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I really love the online applications that first require you to make an account, then they require you to post a pdf of a resume/coverletter, then they require you to go through their online queries for the information that you generally put on a resume, except more in depth... IE school phone numbers/addresses, past employers/addresses/phone numbers, etc.. Stuff that the employer really shouldn't need (hence why it's not on resumes..), and yet they expect applicants to put in the additional 2 hours of time for their specific flower child application process.. it really makes me feel "valued" as a prospective employee.
At this point, I'm literally in love with any employer who says "yeah just email me your resume/cover letter/transcripts and we'll get back to you," because it actually makes me feel like they'll at least personally look at my gpa and reject me.
edit * the OP covers all of my complaints, just wanted to reiterate how annoying it is. thanks again to all of those awesome smaller companies who can't afford this dumb software and actually talk to me like humans. i don't mind being called an idiot, i mind being treated like a number though.
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Oo really interesting topic, however I disagree with most of the reason OP provided as to why it's harder to find a job nowadays. I think it ALL boils down to relevant work experience/qualifications/education. It's harder to find a job these days because theres just more competition. The internet doesn't make it directly harder to find a job, but because it is more readily available for more people to access and submit a resume/cover letter, it increases competition (i still think the best way to get a job is "knowing" someone). I found and applied to my summer job online (the commute is kind of far tho D: )and was really lucky to have gotten it, and can thank the fact that I had plenty of relevant job experience and am a returning student AND JOB APPLICATIONS ONLINE(in Ontario if you are a returning student, the government pays the hiring company $2 to every hour you work and this really encourages places to hire college students). QUESTION: Does the US have a similar policy like this? So basically I applied to a buttload of other jobs and only heard back from one, nailed the interview and got the job ;D Jobs are really hard to come by these days, let alone a full time position with benefits, which is why a lot of companies would much rather have several part-time and contracted workers than a few full time employees. Sorry 4 rant
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How old are you that you can accurately claim that it was easier 15 years ago?
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On August 15 2014 02:28 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2014 01:04 FromShouri wrote:On August 14 2014 19:54 Capped wrote:On August 14 2014 13:21 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
you try craigslist? This is a joke right. Unless you're Female, 18, slim, hot and willing to suck a man off at a moments notice you aint getting a job from craigslist lol. Also at the 5 days guy above: That is the "standard" package usually for entry level jobs. I get 5 paid days off but if Im sick I don't have to use them unless I still want to get paid for that day. So to get paid when sick you also have to use your days off? Meaning that if you are ill 2 times in a year you have 0 days off (excluding national holidays and weekends)?
Most jobs get most holidays off(at least big 3 like thanksgiving, christmas, and easter). And yes, say I take a 5 day vacation, any other time I take during the year won't be paid at all. However since my job requires me to work holidays sometimes I get "floating" holidays which are essentially paid days off that I can use since I had to work X holiday. So if I had to work christmas they give me a floating holiday that I can use to take a different day off that week. I also only accrue like 2 hours or some shit like that a pay period(2 weeks) i forget the math but its basically 2 hours every pay period.
But it also just honestly depends on the company and the job, I know some cats that work in the higher rings of IT and they get wayyyy more days off then I do being entry level. Most of them have multiple days accrued, one guy I knew actually had like 280 hours banked up over 10 years...that shit would never happen to me because I try to hold off but Im lazy at heart and take any time I can to not work.
On August 15 2014 06:40 Endymion wrote:
I really love the online applications that first require you to make an account, then they require you to post a pdf of a resume/coverletter, then they require you to go through their online queries for the information that you generally put on a resume, except more in depth... IE school phone numbers/addresses, past employers/addresses/phone numbers, etc.. Stuff that the employer really shouldn't need (hence why it's not on resumes..), and yet they expect applicants to put in the additional 2 hours of time for their specific flower child application process.. it really makes me feel "valued" as a prospective employee.
At this point, I'm literally in love with any employer who says "yeah just email me your resume/cover letter/transcripts and we'll get back to you," because it actually makes me feel like they'll at least personally look at my gpa and reject me.
edit * the OP covers all of my complaints, just wanted to reiterate how annoying it is. thanks again to all of those awesome smaller companies who can't afford this dumb software and actually talk to me like humans. i don't mind being called an idiot, i mind being treated like a number though.
I don't disagree but its kind of a game of cat and mouse. I usually only put JUST enough information to not look like Im trying to hide something but don't fill EVERY single thing out. Its like if they asked for my facebook login(i don't really use mine as it is except to view pictures of my nieces/nephews) I'd tell them in a professional manner to basically go fuck themselves ^^. Hasn't kept me from getting a job I was qualified for yet.
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On August 14 2014 19:54 Capped wrote:This is a joke right. Unless you're Female, 18, slim, hot and willing to suck a man off at a moments notice you aint getting a job from craigslist lol.
small bussiness where i am use craigslist to advertise job openings.
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It all depends on the kind of job you want. From now on, I will exclusively use recruiters and to a lesser extent my work network.
Ive been there with trash online applications and I dislike them... However, applying for 40 odd grad positions to get one interview got me where I am today. You have to slog through application after application and put the effort in if you truly want it.
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pretty sure its just the robots and mexicans taking everyones jobs
its only a matter of time before the mexican robots take their jobs too
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Myself and some friends were able to get good salaried jobs off of craigslist. But they smaller businesses with less than 100 employees. This is in the NYC suburbs and in engineering and software fields.
Seems to be 2 weeks paid vacation (10 Days) + some sick or personal days for entry level jobs like the ones I mentioned.
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I think you can pretty easily get crappy retail, non-chain jobs (stores with maybe 1-4 branches) just by showing up and asking if they are hiring, since normally they have . Didn't take me too long to find a job that way, but maybe I got lucky
I'd imagine that to find higher paying jobs it would be more important to network a bit
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On August 17 2014 00:58 ThomasjServo wrote:
Have you tried Nepotism?
That and cronyism seem to be the best ways to get a job these days.
It's pretty shitty. Especially considering that shit is systemic all the way up into the highest jobs and even the government. It's one of the major reasons this country is going to shit. That's another topic though.
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EPT
