EPTStar Trek DS9 Rivals TNG, Easily - Page 3
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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Yakikorosu
1203 Posts
Only reason some silly people look down on and dismiss DS9 is the whole "omg no Enterprise" factor, which is ridiculous. Also yes, In the Pale Moonlight is the best Star Trek episode, period. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
1 All that spiritual shit with sisco. Star Trek is about SCIENCE. SCIENCE fiction. 2 The writers wanted to add soap opera elements like romances to TNG but Gene Roddenberry didn't let them. That wasn't his vision and it cheapened what Star Trek was supposed to be. Roddenberry died and the writers shat all over the Star Trek legacy. TNG hinted that in the future monogamy would be replaced with polygamy. Audiences weren't ready for that. DS9 they wanted to up their ratings so they made the Wharf/Dax, Odo/Kira relationships. I felt like I was watching Dawson's Creek in space. 3 Pah wraiths, shooting lighting from their hands... are you fucking kidding me? Oh yeah remember the non stop shit with the bajorans.. THEY ARE A METAPHOR FOR THE JEWS I GET IT ALREADY. What a boring race to base your whole around. Remember the mirror universe that they kept going back to every single season. I hated those. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
On August 02 2014 14:42 kushm4sta wrote: DS9 is a fucking soap opera. It disgusts me. 1 All that spiritual shit with sisco. Star Trek is about SCIENCE. SCIENCE fiction. 2 The writers wanted to add soap opera elements like romances to TNG but Gene Roddenberry didn't let them. That wasn't his vision and it cheapened what Star Trek was supposed to be. Roddenberry died and the writers shat all over the Star Trek legacy. TNG hinted that in the future monogamy would be replaced with polygamy. Audiences weren't ready for that. DS9 they wanted to up their ratings so they made the Wharf/Dax, Odo/Kira relationships. I felt like I was watching Dawson's Creek in space. 3 Pah wraiths, shooting lighting from their hands... are you fucking kidding me? Oh yeah remember the non stop shit with the bajorans.. THEY ARE A METAPHOR FOR THE JEWS I GET IT ALREADY. What a boring race to base your whole around. Remember the mirror universe that they kept going back to every single season. I hated those. RWAR YOU'RE ALL WRONG FROM ENJOYING THIS THING I HATE. RWAR. | ||
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Lucumo
6850 Posts
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Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
B5 is best anyway. I don't say this to offend trekkies in any way..., seriously - especially seasons 2-4 are without the shadow of a doubt some of the best sci-fi ever made. Should probably be discussed in a different thread though  | ||
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LonelyIslands
Canada590 Posts
Carnac, B5 is still something that I have yet to watch with any continuity. I would recommend the new BSG and if you're looking for an older series, Space Above and Beyond was pretty fantastic as well. | ||
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NihilisticGod
Northern Ireland174 Posts
I will say this. DS9 did have the awesomenes which were all episodes heavily featuring the Ferengi. If you've not seen the one were they do a deal, for Quark's mother, with a dominion Eggy Pop is missing out! :D | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On August 02 2014 08:05 goodkarma wrote: DS9 was an amazing series for giving the franchise's cuddlebear utopic outlook for the future a dose of reality. DS9's "In the Pale Moonlight" showed this best, and is hands-down one of the best star trek episodes ever made. In the Pale Moonlight is an episode with an inflated reputation, because of the wasted execution of a promising premise. The structure of the episode, with its main action embedded within Sisko's narrative apologia indicates that although this episode is renowned for steering Trek away from Roddenberrian utopianism, it was done in a wavering and half-hearted manner, without sufficient courage to really deconstruct Trek idealism in its broader implications. Sisko's superimposed narrative, and Garak's closing summary, give the episode the dimensions of a moral melodrama which is force-fed to the spectator; despite its reputation, the show had never really managed to subvert the narrative condescension of an Aesop fable. The show, rather than subverting Roddenberry, merely frustrated by skidding the surface of what might have been broader questions raised by the possibilities presented in the show; the end of Season 5 begs the question whether it was not the Federation, rather than the Dominion, which bore the brunt of blame for the outbreak of war, or that the episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost" demonstrate how the Federation is a military bureaucracy in which individual Starfleet Captains can impose martial law upon a galactic government through a combination of political networking and exploitation of political paranoia. In retrospect, it was also a shame that the Dominion was tagged with a xenophobe ideology, which subsequently became flanderised into the predominant trait of that empire. Such creative decisions were made not because they organically followed the science-fiction of a radically different sort of species, but because the antagonist could not merely be exotic; the bad guy label must be tagged and tarred on their foreheads. DS9 was not the sanctimonious Roddenberrian drivel that was the first two seasons of TNG, but as the material grows more familiar in the memory, its limitations metastatize in the mind, particularly in those areas in which the show had ordinarily been praised. One of those areas is characterisation, an area in which DS9 was much stronger than TNG, but which nonetheless descended into Flanderisation later in the series. Anyone who watches Star Trek Season 7, and returns to watch Season 1 in issue, will see plainly that what happened throughout the show's seven-year run was not character development, but character displacement. As the show ran on, the characters were displaced by gimmicks. Thus Odo, an enigmatic and truly odd character in the first two seasons was reduced to two motifs by season 7: his puppy-like affection for Kira, and his identity crisis issuing from the ambiguous sense of belonging. Bashir, an insufferable and unpopular character in the initial seasons of the show, was given his own gimmick in "Dr. Bashir, I presume", after which he became another member of the patented league of Spock clones, a character re-branding gimmick which only fell from favour after its ultimate failure in Enterprise. Kira, the fiery rebel, became Federation stooge by mid-show, after which her character had exhausted its possibilities other than as Odo's romantic object and sex appeal. DS9 provided good entertainment when I came home from school as a child, but even then, the plot holes and fallacious moral logic of the show were evident to me. Over the years, those impressions have not been extenuated by the forgiving inclinations of age, and I cannot today watch a single episode without raising a thousand questions to which no satisfactory answer can be found. In post script, I have to confess that the show provided good melodrama for a science fiction show. The episode "Heart of Stone" had the typical Trek failings: of using the better part of an hour to demonstrate a very simple precept in the Odo-Kira relationship. However, the touch would have been worthy of the poet, had the demonstration been given better pay-off. As the later seasons had the habit of completely destroying the continuity of earlier seasons, so did the episode "His Way" utterly gutter the character premise of "Heart of Stone", out of a contingent need to fuel cheap rom-com. | ||
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