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United States23455 Posts
On June 29 2014 07:56 PickyProtoss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 07:19 Darkhorse wrote:On June 29 2014 07:05 PickyProtoss wrote:On June 29 2014 06:58 Darkhorse wrote:On June 29 2014 05:12 PickyProtoss wrote:On June 29 2014 05:03 Yourmomsbasement wrote:
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.
TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.
I thank you for your time. Come on son, Taeja only wins when Kespa dont bother to show up! Or when they go to DH and get rekt before the even hit the money I think a more realistic comparison was IEM Katowice Right the foreign tournament where sOs beat Taeja is a better example than a foreign tournament where Taeja beat sOs because... REASONS. Believe it or not you can't pick and choose where you pull your stats from just because it helps your point. I'm on my phone but if I weren't I would link you to foreign tournaments where kespa players bombed (because there are several). Btw horrible title mate... Although I think that has been addressed Did SoS ever even attend DreamHack? Did Taeja win the global finals last year, there were 3? Dreamhack was on during Proleague and GSL so Taeja is the best otherwise!
He attended DH Bucharest (Sep. 2013) and DH Winter (Nov. 2013). He lost to Taeja at both of these events. He also took losses to Hyun, Patience, and Innovation as far as non-Kespa goes at those two Dreamhacks. Keep in mind that he was invited to DH Winter based on his Blizzcon win and lost to Taeja/Inno/Patience at DH. Partner that with the overall failure of other Kespa players at DH (Flash, TY, RorO come to mind off the top of my head) and your "Taeja only wins when Kespa doesn't show up!" argument sounds silly.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Bucharest
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_DreamHack_Open/Winter
If you want to see another example of Kespa players not living up to the hype, consider http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_MLG_Spring_Championship.
MLG held Kespa qualifiers and Stats, the King of Kongs soO, and Dear all qualified. Dear made top 6 but lost to Polt and Naniwa, soO was defeated by Sage, and Stats lost to JD. I know people like to say that "Oh well if Kespa just sent good players to foreign events they would win them all" but that is clearly not the case. And I will give credit and say that Trap was the best player at MLG that weekend and deservedly won. But I will also say that RorO lost to a foreigner at DH Bucharest and was left out of the top 16 and TY got dominated by MC at the same tournament.
TLDR: Kespa players aren't gods and saying, "Other people only win tournaments when Kespa doesn't show up!" isn't true at all.
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What about the best Kespa players? Soulkey? Rain? Parting? Zest? Maru? Anyway if you are entitled to your opinion! You have provided legitimate evidence and that holds up. We will see with global finals. Oh yeah who dominated the global finals last year?
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United States23455 Posts
On June 29 2014 08:46 PickyProtoss wrote:
What about the best Kespa players? Soulkey? Rain? Parting? Zest? Maru? Anyway if you are entitled to your opinion! You have provided legitimate evidence and that holds up. We will see with global finals. Oh yeah who dominated the global finals last year?
Some of the better Kespa players haven't gone to foreign events true enough but soO/Dear/sOs are all top tier Kespa talent (Dear has recently been in a slump but at the time he participated in a foreign tournament he was better). Also Rain lost to Polt at IEM Cologne. And yeah I suppose we shall see at the global finals.
Still wish you hadn't made an SC2 daed gaem blog
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On June 29 2014 08:51 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 08:46 PickyProtoss wrote:
What about the best Kespa players? Soulkey? Rain? Parting? Zest? Maru? Anyway if you are entitled to your opinion! You have provided legitimate evidence and that holds up. We will see with global finals. Oh yeah who dominated the global finals last year? Some of the better Kespa players haven't gone to foreign events true enough but soO/Dear/sOs are all top tier Kespa talent (Dear has recently been in a slump but at the time he participated in a foreign tournament he was better). Also Rain lost to Polt at IEM Cologne. And yeah I suppose we shall see at the global finals. Still wish you hadn't made an SC2 daed gaem blog
I didn't know that sOs had a double of himself.
Also Dear is a bad example because he is under huge stress of finding a team.
Also http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/hots/players/697_Rain/games#tblt-1376-2-1-DESC Rain went to Polt litterally two days after his last game vs KT Rolster @ Round 2 Finals of KT vs SKT while Polt was doing http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=hots&type=players&id=1856&part=games&league=standard#tblt-1478-4-1-DESC Twitch Ender's Game on Blu-Ray Tournament and 2013 Dailymotion Cup.
Different context here.
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On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao
I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion.
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On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion.
I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say.
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On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say.
I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following:
"You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was."
I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future.
"But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds."
With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part."
"I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit."
You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here...
"Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share."
...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong.
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On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong.
Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can.
I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over.
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On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over.
I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments.
Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with.
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On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with.
lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server.
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On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server.
Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves.
Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play.
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On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 12:58 usedtocare wrote:
You are arguing weak points. There's an obvious way to solve these issues - make the game more manual, bring back the mechanics where the difference in skillset will impact the outcome significantly enough. You get your stars back, you get new ceiling and basically sc2 becomes bw. Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play.
I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself.
Have a wonderful day.
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On June 29 2014 11:52 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:On June 28 2014 14:49 ninazerg wrote:
[quote]
Only once in a great span of timeless time does someone etch onto the wall of Teamliquid such an epic legendary post that changes the very course of human history, and I believe you have done it today with these eloquent and powerful words. I do believe deep down in my heart that you are the light in the darkness, the ray of hope piercing the dark void of despair that shall save SC2 from inevitable doom. Finally, someone with an idea so profound that it will completely save StarCraft 2 and also make it become Brood War, bring the stars back, and create a brave new ceiling that we can only dream of aspiring to reach. User interface and fundamentals of rudimentary gameplay be damned! Let us reconstruct SC2 into the image of a game without MBS and much more limited unit selection, and less clumpy unit pathing AI! For, if there is any gripe of the plebeian concerning the overarching problem with games in this day and age, it is most definitely MBS. I look forward to seeing the stars glow once more, thanks to your genius recommendation, which could only have been divinely inspired. You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds. I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play. I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself. Have a wonderful day.
Yeah, everyone claims to have been "A- on WGTour" because there's no way to check. What's your iCCup ID, mr. B rank?
|
On June 29 2014 11:54 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:52 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 28 2014 15:16 usedtocare wrote:
[quote]
You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was. But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds.
I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit. Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share. Maybe someone will finish both of your posts as a bonus, lmao I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play. I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself. Have a wonderful day. Yeah, everyone claims to have been "A- on WGTour" because there's no way to check. What's your iCCup ID, mr. B rank?
Look up gNs.I-Seraphim or Barbedwire
Okay, bye.
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On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:54 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:52 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:57 ninazerg wrote:
[quote]
I think you have me confused with someone else. Or not. I'm not sure. Every sentence is like an incomplete thought, but since your account is locked for a bit, I may never know the answer, therefore, the only course of action I can now take is to argue with myself to complete this discussion. I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play. I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself. Have a wonderful day. Yeah, everyone claims to have been "A- on WGTour" because there's no way to check. What's your iCCup ID, mr. B rank? Look up gNs.I-Seraphim or Barbedwire Okay, bye.
"ID not found" for both of those. Good job looking like a total idiot.
|
On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:54 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:52 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 10:59 ninazerg wrote:
[quote]
I'm sure you will waste time arguing with yourself, just like you wasted time posting something absolutely useless to the discussion. Of course, after what you posted, I'm not entirely sure you would understand what I was trying to say. I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following: " You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was." I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future. " But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds." With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part." " I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit." You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here... " Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share." ...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play. I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself. Have a wonderful day. Yeah, everyone claims to have been "A- on WGTour" because there's no way to check. What's your iCCup ID, mr. B rank? Look up gNs.I-Seraphim or Barbedwire Okay, bye. "ID not found" for both of those. Good job looking like a total idiot.
iccup probably deleted them, so what
|
On June 29 2014 11:57 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:54 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:52 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:18 ninazerg wrote:
[quote]
I accept your condescending comment as a sign of your willingness to spar with me intellectually, and I will oblige you in this cerebral text-based duel. You say the following:
"You have definitely improved since starting out as a support cast for some mexican teams on US East (or showmatches?) - I'm sorry I can't remember what it was."
I have never have been on the supporting cast for a mexican television show, although, I think that it is highly possible that I could do this in the future.
"But, you should be eloquent enough now to generate wittier replies - this is pretty bleak. I guess MBS numbs even the more curious of minds."
With this "but", I assume this thought is a continuation of the previous thought, however, this does not appear to be the case because nothing you said in the first line correlates with this second line unless the first line was some sort of thinly-veiled insult, lampooning my humor because it was directed towards you in a way that you took to be an insult, and have attempted to disparage original comment by saying that my humor is weak despite my mexican daytime drama experience, and my usage of MBS, neither of which I have done. Also, the first sentence would be better of dictated as such: "You should be eloquent enough by now to generate wittier replies, but what you have posted here lacks any indication of a sharpening of wit on your part."
"I know the concept must be so rudimentary and obvious - it must be painful to admit."
You begin a whole new paragraph for this line, so I'm not sure which concept you are referring to, is it humor or changing SC2? However, I do not understand how it would be painful to admit to either being incorrect about a proposition to make SC2 more 'popular', or to admit that my humor may have fallen flat, but you did end the last paragraph by mentioning that MBS is 'numbing', so how would I feel the pain to begin with? Well, perhaps your next sentence will elaborate further on what you meant to say here...
"Once you come up with more ideas on why exactly former C+ players sporadically take games off of professional gamers - feel free to share."
...or not. I'm not sure what you're trying to point out here. Perhaps it's that non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on. But that's Brood War, I assume you're talking about SC2, which is on, what? Its fourth year? From what I recall reading, foreigners still could beat Koreans in 2001, four years after BW's release. But that kind of kicks your argument in the face, so I await your strange, other-worldly explanation as to why I am wrong. Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can. I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play. I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself. Have a wonderful day. Yeah, everyone claims to have been "A- on WGTour" because there's no way to check. What's your iCCup ID, mr. B rank? Look up gNs.I-Seraphim or Barbedwire Okay, bye. "ID not found" for both of those. Good job looking like a total idiot. iccup probably deleted them, so what
Go 1v1? We'll go bo5
Python, Destination, Fighting Spirit, Electric Circuit, Heartbreak Ridge
Get on iccup or fish
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On June 29 2014 11:59 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:54 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:52 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:28 ninazerg wrote:
[quote]
Thanks for writing me a wall of text that nobody is ever going to read. It is clear from what you just wrote that you have little to no understanding of what I am talking about, and have decided to hide your ignorance by being a smart-ass. First of all, I have seen some of your casting work, and from the ten seconds I had the displeasure of viewing, you offered nothing substantial in terms of game knowledge, only some tenth-grade level joking that made me smirk, but mostly out of embarrassment for you. Second of all, I'm not disputing that new players beat pros in BW. Get that through your head, if you can.
I'm talking about random newbies from BW who are able to beat seasoned pro-gamers from BW in SC2. What does that tell you? Well, for someone who can put one and one together like myself, it indicates to me that the skill ceiling for SC2 is not as high as BW and caters to newbs. Furthermore, your "in 2001" analogy is a classic case of false equivalency because the RTS scene was so dramatically underdeveloped compared to today's understanding of RTS games. It took BW a good 10 years to be figured out, but that was because there was no background from which to work on working it out, however, with SC2, there is a distinct similarity to BW that would allow someone to take their knowledge of BW and apply it to SC2 to figure the game out quickly. Now, how can a C+ noob have the equivalent knowledge to a former BW pro? And don't give me a smart-ass answer or this conversation is over. I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments. Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with. lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play. I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself. Have a wonderful day. Yeah, everyone claims to have been "A- on WGTour" because there's no way to check. What's your iCCup ID, mr. B rank? Look up gNs.I-Seraphim or Barbedwire Okay, bye. "ID not found" for both of those. Good job looking like a total idiot. iccup probably deleted them, so what Go 1v1? We'll go bo5 Python, Destination, Fighting Spirit, Electric Circuit, Heartbreak Ridge Get on iccup or fish
lol, I haven't played in like 2 years and don't even have BW installed, what makes you think I'm going to play you and let you pick a bunch of maps I don't even know?
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On June 29 2014 12:00 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2014 11:59 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:57 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:56 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:54 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:52 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:48 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:44 ninazerg wrote:On June 29 2014 11:40 ninazerg wrote:
[quote]
I think you pretty much answered your own question, but you're assuming SC2 is the same game as BW with a lower skill ceiling. SC2 is a quite different game from BW, which, by the way, has not been "figured out", as you put it, but had a very high practice regimen for proleague players. This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good. You can blame the game all you want, but a small handful of Korean pros are dominating in SC2 right now, even if they get knocked out early in tournaments.
Being a pro at BW may or may not necessarily translate into an advantage in SC2. For some players, like Bogus and Jaedong and so on, it definitely does to some extent, but they also have the advantage of having really supportive practice houses that allow them to train really hard to win. Remember when Jaedong first picked up SC2? I was watching those streams and he kinda sucked. If you're talking about foreigner pros, most of them are wildly inconsistent, and have a tendency to die easily to strategies they are uncomfortable with, or simply make too many small mistakes to deal with.
lol, I can only assume you're too noob at BW to see the difference between pro-players and iccup scrubs. But that's to be expected from US East users. I don't know how you can sit there and pretend that there isn't something wrong when someone who sucked at BW can beat someone who was godly in BW when they play SC2 because it's suddenly "a different game", especially when you yourself mention that pro-gamers have practice houses where they can train full-time. If you practice full-time, you shouldn't drop games to someone who never was good at RTS to begin with, and only plays part-time on NA server. Did you even read what I wrote, or are you illiterate? Did you miss the part where I said "This, by no means, made any of them invincible or unbeatable, and the same goes for SC2 pros, so I don't really see why you're so surprised that someone good can lose to someone not as good."? or when I said "non-pros sometimes beat pros, like LancerX beating sSak, Bizzy beating Bisu, dRaW beating TerrOr[fOu], Mondragon beating SaviOr, Incontrol and Advokate beating Jaedong, Testie beating Midas, and so on."? You keep going back to Brood War to make some kind of circular argument about how progamers are unbeatable when there is no evidence to support that claim. Pro-gamers will, of course, beat nub players more than they lose, but you can't win every single game ever, especially when the "newbs" have a lot of experience themselves. Also, don't talk about BW skill if you don't play. I was A- on WGTour and B rank on iCCup, what are you, D+/C-? I'm tired of discussing things with people who have no clear idea what they're talking about. Since you have nothing to contribute to this discussing except saying the same stupid arguments over and over again, stay in school, go read a book, do something to educate yourself. Have a wonderful day. Yeah, everyone claims to have been "A- on WGTour" because there's no way to check. What's your iCCup ID, mr. B rank? Look up gNs.I-Seraphim or Barbedwire Okay, bye. "ID not found" for both of those. Good job looking like a total idiot. iccup probably deleted them, so what Go 1v1? We'll go bo5 Python, Destination, Fighting Spirit, Electric Circuit, Heartbreak Ridge Get on iccup or fish lol, I haven't played in like 2 years and don't even have BW installed, what makes you think I'm going to play you and let you pick a bunch of maps I don't even know?
I see, you're going to talk about how you're "B rank" and say I'm a noob at Brood War, and then do this. Why would you ever uninstall Brood War to begin with? Go install it, I'll wait.
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ninazerg and ninazerg, you both are really derailing the thread with your stupid drama. stfu and take it to pms
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EPT
