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Why SC2 is dying - Page 4

Blogs > PickyProtoss
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PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 11:23 GMT
#61
On June 28 2014 18:27 bestman66 wrote:
Uh excuse me but there are 20k GSL viewers who want to say, "WE DON'T THINK SO!"


I know and I was one of them, and that is only the English broadcast, and from what I hear it has been steadily increasing in Korea.
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
June 28 2014 11:24 GMT
#62
On June 28 2014 05:43 PickyProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 05:34 aZealot wrote:
It's all very well to talk about not trying for perfect balance, but the community at large (at least that part of it that posts on TL/SC2 Forums/Reddit) tends to be very vocal when it comes to balance. Of course, then parts of that community also whine about the game being stale etc but consistency is difficult to ask for in anyone, let alone SC2 players.

I'd like it if Blizzard left the game alone for extended periods, and made public statements to that effect, but I'm in a minority.


Agreed, I am all for patching bugs and making the game more efficient to play, but patches that make the units better or worse, MSC, Oracle, Hellbat, Infestor etc... it is detrimental to the players-> fanbase -> game.


Actually, now that I think about it, Blizzard have said they are happy with 55 - 45 which is reasonable to me and is not perfect balance. That said, I still think that the game could be left alone a lot more than it is - if not for all the crying and the whine.

However, I don't agree with your claim that SC2 is dying. That really is a load of horseshit. And has been for a long time.
KT best KT ~ 2014
PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 11:36 GMT
#63
On June 28 2014 20:24 aZealot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 05:43 PickyProtoss wrote:
On June 28 2014 05:34 aZealot wrote:
It's all very well to talk about not trying for perfect balance, but the community at large (at least that part of it that posts on TL/SC2 Forums/Reddit) tends to be very vocal when it comes to balance. Of course, then parts of that community also whine about the game being stale etc but consistency is difficult to ask for in anyone, let alone SC2 players.

I'd like it if Blizzard left the game alone for extended periods, and made public statements to that effect, but I'm in a minority.


Agreed, I am all for patching bugs and making the game more efficient to play, but patches that make the units better or worse, MSC, Oracle, Hellbat, Infestor etc... it is detrimental to the players-> fanbase -> game.


Actually, now that I think about it, Blizzard have said they are happy with 55 - 45 which is reasonable to me and is not perfect balance. That said, I still think that the game could be left alone a lot more than it is - if not for all the crying and the whine.

However, I don't agree with your claim that SC2 is dying. That really is a load of horseshit. And has been for a long time.


I agree man, in hindsight I should have labelled it something else, I am not that embedded within the community so I didnt know there it was so taboo/polarizing statement to say SC2 is dead.
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
June 28 2014 14:01 GMT
#64
The premise of this blog is completely off from the current reality of the situation - which is the opposite.
Viewership is where it's at now, an all time low, because the game is not being balanced. You cannot have 1+ year of Protoss domination and leave the game as it currently is for much longer.

Also, when SC2 had the most viewership was when there were more foreigners competing with Koreans, less Korean domination, and the game was way more balanced with better representation of all 3 races, and even when T or Z or P did win a few things in a row the domination / OPness was no where near the current level of Protoss imo.

At the current point in time, as a community we should be asking blizzard to more consistently balance and tweak the game, because right now they essentially ignore SC2 for 3-5 months at a time, and then will come in with 1 small change and then ignore the balance again for another 4-5 months.
Sup
PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 14:45 GMT
#65
On June 28 2014 23:01 avilo wrote:
The premise of this blog is completely off from the current reality of the situation - which is the opposite.
Viewership is where it's at now, an all time low, because the game is not being balanced. You cannot have 1+ year of Protoss domination and leave the game as it currently is for much longer.

Also, when SC2 had the most viewership was when there were more foreigners competing with Koreans, less Korean domination, and the game was way more balanced with better representation of all 3 races, and even when T or Z or P did win a few things in a row the domination / OPness was no where near the current level of Protoss imo.

At the current point in time, as a community we should be asking blizzard to more consistently balance and tweak the game, because right now they essentially ignore SC2 for 3-5 months at a time, and then will come in with 1 small change and then ignore the balance again for another 4-5 months.


OMG how cool is this, it is Avilo, that may be the case for professionals, but for casual users price tag and difficult learning curve is hurting the game.

Well the problem with patching is the moment you start you open up a can of worms. Now it's patch everything!

In terms of overall balance Zerg and Protoss are pretty equal I saw today in the GSL finals global stats 52% - 48% for one map and the inverse on a different map. I understand Terrans have not being doing too well, and I think the problem here is the lack of ingenuity when it comes to Terran unit design, in essence they use too much of a prototypical war design, tanks etc... plus this mech vs bio thing is messed up. Still, Taeja and Polt do so well it is hard to argue, even though Terran appear to be lacking! Maybe more friendly maps for Terran?

Yeah in order for the game to be more viable we need more foreigners, the interesting element is how some Koreans have now been assimilated into other regions such as MC (EU) and Polt (NA), so from an advertising perspective they filled a niche! I wonder was that a conscious effort by the players or the actual casters/esports?

Anyway Avilo I appreciate your candidness and respect your comments just as everyone else!
solidbebe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Netherlands4921 Posts
June 28 2014 18:35 GMT
#66
On June 28 2014 23:45 PickyProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 23:01 avilo wrote:
The premise of this blog is completely off from the current reality of the situation - which is the opposite.
Viewership is where it's at now, an all time low, because the game is not being balanced. You cannot have 1+ year of Protoss domination and leave the game as it currently is for much longer.

Also, when SC2 had the most viewership was when there were more foreigners competing with Koreans, less Korean domination, and the game was way more balanced with better representation of all 3 races, and even when T or Z or P did win a few things in a row the domination / OPness was no where near the current level of Protoss imo.

At the current point in time, as a community we should be asking blizzard to more consistently balance and tweak the game, because right now they essentially ignore SC2 for 3-5 months at a time, and then will come in with 1 small change and then ignore the balance again for another 4-5 months.


OMG how cool is this, it is Avilo, that may be the case for professionals, but for casual users price tag and difficult learning curve is hurting the game.

Well the problem with patching is the moment you start you open up a can of worms. Now it's patch everything!

In terms of overall balance Zerg and Protoss are pretty equal I saw today in the GSL finals global stats 52% - 48% for one map and the inverse on a different map. I understand Terrans have not being doing too well, and I think the problem here is the lack of ingenuity when it comes to Terran unit design, in essence they use too much of a prototypical war design, tanks etc... plus this mech vs bio thing is messed up. Still, Taeja and Polt do so well it is hard to argue, even though Terran appear to be lacking! Maybe more friendly maps for Terran?

Yeah in order for the game to be more viable we need more foreigners, the interesting element is how some Koreans have now been assimilated into other regions such as MC (EU) and Polt (NA), so from an advertising perspective they filled a niche! I wonder was that a conscious effort by the players or the actual casters/esports?

Anyway Avilo I appreciate your candidness and respect your comments just as everyone else!


You say we need more foreigners but in BW foreigners barely mattered, it was all about the koreans. Ofcourse having foreigners compete with the top koreans is exciting, but I dont think its at all required for a healthy scene.

I think OP doesnt do a very good job at explaining his point, but I agree with his premise. Blizzard has from day1 been nerfing whatever unit or race was strongest at the time, it has led to a horribly boring game. I used to love watching starcraft2. Nowadays I dont even know who the top players are and havent watched a starcraft2 game in months.

I know that dota is not too well liked among hardcore sc2 fans, but im convinced blizzards dev team could learn a great deal from how icefrog balances the game. Icefrog doesnt nerf the shit out of everything, instead he creates an environment where everything has some 'overpowered' aspects in some way. It keeps the game fresh and interesting. Balancing starcraft works very differently from dota (the races directly affect each other every game) but blizzards design philosophy is simply flawed imo.
That's the 2nd time in a week I've seen someone sig a quote from this GD and I have never witnessed a sig quote happen in my TL history ever before. -Najda
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 20:19:15
June 28 2014 19:45 GMT
#67
On June 28 2014 20:36 PickyProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 20:24 aZealot wrote:
On June 28 2014 05:43 PickyProtoss wrote:
On June 28 2014 05:34 aZealot wrote:
It's all very well to talk about not trying for perfect balance, but the community at large (at least that part of it that posts on TL/SC2 Forums/Reddit) tends to be very vocal when it comes to balance. Of course, then parts of that community also whine about the game being stale etc but consistency is difficult to ask for in anyone, let alone SC2 players.

I'd like it if Blizzard left the game alone for extended periods, and made public statements to that effect, but I'm in a minority.


Agreed, I am all for patching bugs and making the game more efficient to play, but patches that make the units better or worse, MSC, Oracle, Hellbat, Infestor etc... it is detrimental to the players-> fanbase -> game.


Actually, now that I think about it, Blizzard have said they are happy with 55 - 45 which is reasonable to me and is not perfect balance. That said, I still think that the game could be left alone a lot more than it is - if not for all the crying and the whine.

However, I don't agree with your claim that SC2 is dying. That really is a load of horseshit. And has been for a long time.


I agree man, in hindsight I should have labelled it something else, I am not that embedded within the community so I didnt know there it was so taboo/polarizing statement to say SC2 is dead.


Fair play.

IIRC, there was an interview before HOTS where DK said that Blizzard would be OK with 55 - 45 (so, not perfect balance). Although, IIRC, he did not specify how long Blizzard would be happy with a period of "imbalance" (3 months? 6 months? etc).

And, yeah, the SC is dying meme has been done to death (hawhaw) while the game appears to be still going strong (in some cases, we are our own worst enemies). Hence, some community members have little patience with it.
KT best KT ~ 2014
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 19:46:27
June 28 2014 19:45 GMT
#68
On June 28 2014 23:01 avilo wrote:
The premise of this blog is completely off from the current reality of the situation - which is the opposite.
Viewership is where it's at now, an all time low, because the game is not being balanced. You cannot have 1+ year of Protoss domination and leave the game as it currently is for much longer.

Also, when SC2 had the most viewership was when there were more foreigners competing with Koreans, less Korean domination, and the game was way more balanced with better representation of all 3 races, and even when T or Z or P did win a few things in a row the domination / OPness was no where near the current level of Protoss imo.

At the current point in time, as a community we should be asking blizzard to more consistently balance and tweak the game, because right now they essentially ignore SC2 for 3-5 months at a time, and then will come in with 1 small change and then ignore the balance again for another 4-5 months.


LOL! Avilo. Still playing shit Starcraft and whining for the "I win" patch, I see.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Yourmomsbasement
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada87 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-28 20:04:04
June 28 2014 20:03 GMT
#69
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.

TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.

I thank you for your time.
PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 20:12 GMT
#70
On June 29 2014 05:03 Yourmomsbasement wrote:
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.

TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.

I thank you for your time.


Come on son, Taeja only wins when Kespa dont bother to show up!
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
June 28 2014 20:43 GMT
#71
On June 28 2014 18:27 bestman66 wrote:
Uh excuse me but there are 20k GSL viewers who want to say, "WE DON'T THINK SO!"

That's not even enough to sustain 5 peoples livielihood.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 20:45 GMT
#72
On June 29 2014 05:43 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2014 18:27 bestman66 wrote:
Uh excuse me but there are 20k GSL viewers who want to say, "WE DON'T THINK SO!"

That's not even enough to sustain 5 peoples livielihood.


I've seen Dendi get that when he is streaming on Twitch.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
June 28 2014 20:58 GMT
#73
On June 29 2014 05:45 PickyProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 05:43 Xiphos wrote:
On June 28 2014 18:27 bestman66 wrote:
Uh excuse me but there are 20k GSL viewers who want to say, "WE DON'T THINK SO!"

That's not even enough to sustain 5 peoples livielihood.


I've seen Dendi get that when he is streaming on Twitch.

Gom is on the verge of bankruptcy after world of tanks pulled out.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
June 28 2014 21:49 GMT
#74
perfect title for blogviews

5/5
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
June 28 2014 21:58 GMT
#75
On June 29 2014 05:12 PickyProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 05:03 Yourmomsbasement wrote:
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.

TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.

I thank you for your time.


Come on son, Taeja only wins when Kespa dont bother to show up!

Or when they go to DH and get rekt before the even hit the money
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 22:01 GMT
#76
On June 29 2014 06:58 Darkhorse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 05:12 PickyProtoss wrote:
On June 29 2014 05:03 Yourmomsbasement wrote:
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.

TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.

I thank you for your time.


Come on son, Taeja only wins when Kespa dont bother to show up!

Or when they go to DH and get rekt before the even hit the money


I think a more realistic comparison was IEM Katowice
PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 22:05 GMT
#77
On June 29 2014 06:58 Darkhorse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 05:12 PickyProtoss wrote:
On June 29 2014 05:03 Yourmomsbasement wrote:
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.

TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.

I thank you for your time.


Come on son, Taeja only wins when Kespa dont bother to show up!

Or when they go to DH and get rekt before the even hit the money


I think a more realistic comparison was IEM Katowice
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
June 28 2014 22:19 GMT
#78
On June 29 2014 07:05 PickyProtoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 06:58 Darkhorse wrote:
On June 29 2014 05:12 PickyProtoss wrote:
On June 29 2014 05:03 Yourmomsbasement wrote:
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.

TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.

I thank you for your time.


Come on son, Taeja only wins when Kespa dont bother to show up!

Or when they go to DH and get rekt before the even hit the money


I think a more realistic comparison was IEM Katowice

Right the foreign tournament where sOs beat Taeja is a better example than a foreign tournament where Taeja beat sOs because... REASONS.

Believe it or not you can't pick and choose where you pull your stats from just because it helps your point. I'm on my phone but if I weren't I would link you to foreign tournaments where kespa players bombed (because there are several). Btw horrible title mate... Although I think that has been addressed
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
PickyProtoss
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
Ireland74 Posts
June 28 2014 22:56 GMT
#79
On June 29 2014 07:19 Darkhorse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2014 07:05 PickyProtoss wrote:
On June 29 2014 06:58 Darkhorse wrote:
On June 29 2014 05:12 PickyProtoss wrote:
On June 29 2014 05:03 Yourmomsbasement wrote:
What a well thought out post. I will now intelligently refute you.

TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa, TaeJa.

I thank you for your time.


Come on son, Taeja only wins when Kespa dont bother to show up!

Or when they go to DH and get rekt before the even hit the money


I think a more realistic comparison was IEM Katowice

Right the foreign tournament where sOs beat Taeja is a better example than a foreign tournament where Taeja beat sOs because... REASONS.

Believe it or not you can't pick and choose where you pull your stats from just because it helps your point. I'm on my phone but if I weren't I would link you to foreign tournaments where kespa players bombed (because there are several). Btw horrible title mate... Although I think that has been addressed


Did SoS ever even attend DreamHack? Did Taeja win the global finals last year, there were 3? Dreamhack was on during Proleague and GSL so Taeja is the best otherwise!
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
June 28 2014 23:25 GMT
#80
Guys everyone knows that the REAL SC2 gamers stays to battle it in the GSL and ProLeague.

S-Class tournies: GSL + PL
A-Class tournies: WCS EU
B-Class tournies: WCS NA + ESL + DH
C-Class tournies: HSC + ShoutCraft.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
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