EPTThere really are like absolute zero informations anywhere on that site. that might be why nobody plays it, because nobody even knows about it?
TLIHs are dead, long live TLIHs - Page 2
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Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
There really are like absolute zero informations anywhere on that site. that might be why nobody plays it, because nobody even knows about it? | ||
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makmeatt
2024 Posts
On June 24 2014 04:34 Yoshi- wrote: Are there even any inhouses games happening? There really are like absolute zero informations anywhere on that site. that might be why nobody plays it, because nobody even knows about it? They aren't now. Whoever tries to assemble one, gets discouraged after failing to do it with a short notice. I'm gonna be trying to get a few games every day starting Saturday, we'll see how it goes and what adjustments we'll need to make to get a lobby full. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
The fact of the matter is that for the better players in TLIH, playing with/against people that aren't very good ranges between a nuisance and irritating. Like, the top tier people that play (Rocketbear, Alurr, Beesa to name a few) often times would literally have to be either holding the hand of the people that they were playing with, or dragging them entirely to victory. I know multiple occasions where the top players would get frustrated at their teammates simply because the fact of the matter is that they couldn't do their job and teach the new players how to do theirs at the same time. And when you have to do that in the middle of a game with new players on key heroes (seriously putting a new player on an initiatior is just painful sometimes) it's a bit discouraging when you can instead play MM and not have half of those issues. This isn't to say that TLIH shouldn't be all inclusive. Hell I literally had never played Dota, LoL, or HoN when I first started hanging around the inhouses, but the fact of the matter is that people have to be able to learn on their own and be able to do their job when playing with these others because of the massive difference in skill that can exist in these. TLIH above all else is a good place to learn how to play proper Dota. But the key to that is that the people have to not only be asking questions to the people around them, but to themselves and figuring out things on their own as well. If we can get newcomers who will do that, I think that would end up easing a lot of the burden that the older players feel when playing and would make it a lot more fun for everyone. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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makmeatt
2024 Posts
On June 24 2014 06:11 Kupon3ss wrote: every time i draft a lineup i have to account for nobody being able to play any of it~ To be perfectly fair, only bravery is required to play your drafts, and it works most of the time. | ||
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Laurens
Belgium4539 Posts
I enjoyed most of the TLIHs I played. There was one particularly bad game where someone on my team started spamming GG nonstop from minute 3, and abandoned shortly afterwards when we kept cancelling. That in itself was fine, but what annoyed me was that the player in question didn't get punished at all. Rodberd talks about this on the previous page, certain people being too famous to get punished. That shouldn't happen. Of course if we're not using the IXDL client there's no system at all to punish people so that's an issue. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 24 2014 05:51 LeLoup wrote: So there is one other issue that a lot of people really aren't taking into account unfortunately, and it is something that needs to be brought up I think so that everyone can see all sides of this. The fact of the matter is that for the better players in TLIH, playing with/against people that aren't very good ranges between a nuisance and irritating. Like, the top tier people that play (Rocketbear, Alurr, Beesa to name a few) often times would literally have to be either holding the hand of the people that they were playing with, or dragging them entirely to victory. I know multiple occasions where the top players would get frustrated at their teammates simply because the fact of the matter is that they couldn't do their job and teach the new players how to do theirs at the same time. And when you have to do that in the middle of a game with new players on key heroes (seriously putting a new player on an initiatior is just painful sometimes) it's a bit discouraging when you can instead play MM and not have half of those issues. This isn't to say that TLIH shouldn't be all inclusive. Hell I literally had never played Dota, LoL, or HoN when I first started hanging around the inhouses, but the fact of the matter is that people have to be able to learn on their own and be able to do their job when playing with these others because of the massive difference in skill that can exist in these. TLIH above all else is a good place to learn how to play proper Dota. But the key to that is that the people have to not only be asking questions to the people around them, but to themselves and figuring out things on their own as well. If we can get newcomers who will do that, I think that would end up easing a lot of the burden that the older players feel when playing and would make it a lot more fun for everyone. On the other side of this, as one of those players dragging the team down, it is almost impossible to learn when the skill gap is that large. The game is so much "faster" and tighter than what most pub players are used to its really hard to come back from a few mistakes. There are also some language barriers as well. Also, people's ability to play dota well does not directly translate into their ability to teach dota to newer players. Teaching is a skill and it requires a lot of patience and practice, both of which are not available during a dota match with highly skilled players on both sides. Telling players to "roam and make shit happen" generally is not sufficient. | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
So I get more frustrated by my own play, because of teammates. And depending on mood I might get pretty bitter. And yes I agree with Plan6, when the skillgap is too big, it's really hard to learn anything from it. It's easier to learn when your opponents are a bit better than you. But when people are a lot better then it doesn't help at all. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I feel TL has not used the coaching feature at all and it could be a good way to help new players improve. The problem with that is that the player who is coaching has to love to teach. I like to teach and I'm good at it, which is why I train all the new hires at my firm, but I am bad at dota. And thus is the problem, good players want the ball all the time and when you are teaching, you don't get the ball. Or the higher level players could just suck up their pride and accept that the are playing with some trench ass players and just accept that mistakes will be made. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
Tldr we need more firebolts. | ||
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makmeatt
2024 Posts
On June 24 2014 08:28 LeLoup wrote: Tldr we need more firebolts. How's that gonna make it any easier? + Show Spoiler + hue | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
those leagues only work if everyone vaguely knows each other but TL is so big that chances are the players in the game might as well be random pubs especially with an open system where everyone can join theres basically no incentive to play such games since without matchmaking the game quality will likely be much worse than ur average matchmade pub game so the only option i really see working for community of tls size would be a ladder inhouse system with rankings and a semi competitive environment, like ixdl but with stricter rules for flaming and such given tl's culture but given the toxicity of the general dota community i doubt anyone on tl would want to mod or admin that | ||
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makmeatt
2024 Posts
On June 24 2014 08:33 Kraznaya wrote: i think TL is too large a community for a casual pickup league to make sense those leagues only work if everyone vaguely knows each other but TL is so big that chances are the players in the game might as well be random pubs especially with an open system where everyone can join theres basically no incentive to play such games since without matchmaking the game quality will likely be much worse than ur average matchmade pub game so the only option i really see working for community of tls size would be a ladder inhouse system with rankings and a semi competitive environment, like ixdl but with stricter rules for flaming and such given tl's culture but given the toxicity of the general dota community i doubt anyone on tl would want to mod or admin that We've been through this and I hope everyone has learned their lesson in that regard; although since we will have to somehow set up a stable influx of players in order to make it a sustainable endeavor, we will have to think of a way to bring new people closer or something. And toxicity around here will be dealt with harshly - if no one else will, I will (somehow) take care of it. I know all this might sound like wishful thinking, but that's where a lot of good things start. | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
Leloup wrote a pretty accurate post up there ^. We don't have much pride. I play with anyone who wants to play with me, pm me and you get my steam ID etc. I play with a lot of lower rated people who I find it fun to play with. Seeing mistakes doesn't bother me that much. It's when it gets to the point, where people expect me to help them with literally everything. Which makes me unfocused, and then I make mistakes which I know wouldn't happen. So I don't mind seeing other peoples mistakes, it's my own I get frustrated over. And only when it happens because of lack of focus. Maybe it's selfish, I just prioritize my own enjoyment. I have helped a lot of people, and I don't mind doing so at all. My "teaching style" is pretty casual and just focus on fundamental mistakes. E.G. If a player wasn't at a fight he should have been, I will point that out. But if he was at that fight, but missed his spells and died. Then it's whatever, shit happens. The idea was right. Which also mean I don't point out 1000 mistakes every game, which some people seem to expect from me. The players who has played with me for a longer time has significantly improved. I just want to have fun as well, not put all my effort into teaching. Hope this post make sense On June 24 2014 08:33 Kraznaya wrote: i think TL is too large a community for a casual pickup league to make sense TL community =! TLIH community though. The TLIH community is pretty small. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 24 2014 08:28 LeLoup wrote: The thing is not how wide the skill gap is but the idea that there aren't enough of the mid level players around anymore. I'm still pretty terrible so when I'm considered one of the mid skill people there is probably an issue. Less mid skill people = harder games for the top tier people. Tldr we need more firebolts. I think also part of the problem is the high level players assume that is a blast for the low level folks. Getting jumped over and over and dying to people who are just better than you is no fun. I think also part of the problem is the high level players assume that is a blast for the low level folks. Getting jumped over and over and dying to people who are just better than you is no fun. I learned stuff from those games, but it was a harsh price for my team to pay for me to gain a little knowledge on when to tell when something is warded. Its like playing 1v1 with a division one college basket ball player. You won't even get a lay-up in there. And you will learn very little. That is how wide the skill gap is between a lot of the players on TL. If folks are serious about an inhouse league and people playing, there needs to be structure beyond just "everyone sign up and play". That format is doomed to fail and already has before. People need to be realistic. If there are 4-5 high level players and the rest of everyone else is super trench, then maybe those high level players need to accept there is nothing for them to learn in a TL inhouse league. Or there needs to be some level of "not-that-trench" that folks need to obtain before they can play in the inhouse league. Or a tier system between the "trench" and "not trench". P.S. I didn't use specific MMRs because I didn't want people to get caught up on that. The point is that there are a lot of folks that want to play in an organized league. The key is making the league in a fashion that they can learn and become better. | ||
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aboxcar
United States447 Posts
The main thing is there is no #hardwork and #dedication from anyone. It takes people who are serious about hosting (and are popular enough to gather others) to show up and sit and play for awhile, and ain't nobody got time for that. When that is in place, then the casuals like me who want to just show up and play 1 or 2 will do so. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
On June 24 2014 09:00 aboxcar wrote: I don't think skill or toxicity has anything to do with it, the times we do play it is completely fine. The main thing is there is no #hardwork and #dedication from anyone. It takes people who are serious about hosting (and are popular enough to gather others) to show up and sit and play for awhile, and ain't nobody got time for that. When that is in place, then the casuals like me who want to just show up and play 1 or 2 will do so. this is why we need #fireboltgamer | ||
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pahndah
1193 Posts
The hero we need that can make everyone else feel good about their plays. | ||
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Jinxed
United States6450 Posts
On June 24 2014 11:34 pahndah wrote: The hero we need that can make everyone else feel good about their plays. This is bothering me. CHANGE TO TIMBERSAW. YOU SHOULD NOT BE A TINKER. Thank you, carry on now. | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
On June 24 2014 05:51 LeLoup wrote: Like, the top tier people that play (Rocketbear, Alurr, Beesa to name a few) Yo LeLoup... | ||
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