• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:52
CET 18:52
KST 02:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2000 users

Quantum Optics VII: Sky lasers

Blogs > Ideal26
Post a Reply
Ideal26
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
United States185 Posts
June 08 2014 15:12 GMT
#1
Hey everyone!

First off, what a weekend of Starcraft this has been! Writing this post has taken forever because HSC/Shoutcraft/Proleague has been open on the other monitor the entire time. If you haven’t been watching Shoutcraft you are missing the best games ever. Flash vs. Bbyong last night was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. Go find those vods!

Anyway! Here’s your weekly dose of physics for when you get a break from all of this SC2 action.
If you haven’t caught on to my schedule yet, I post a new entry every Sunday morning (US time, that is). If you miss one week and want to ask questions on old topics, I keep an eye on the old posts and will still be happy to answer questions, even weeks after they were posted. So far we've covered:

1. Lasers
2. Quantum mechanics intro
3. Raman spectroscopy
4. Lasing without inversion
5. Entanglement
6. Laser cooling


Today’s topic is something you almost certainly have not heard of, unless you frequently read the optics-related papers published in PNAS/PRL/PRA. The idea was developed by the professor I work for and a few of his colleagues several years ago, and it’s still something the lab is focusing on realizing experimentally. We still have quite a way to go, but it’s a cool concept and deserves some attention.


Lesson 7: Sky Lasers
+ Show Spoiler +

People are interested in measuring the varying chemical content of the atmosphere for many reasons. We’re interested in pollution emitted from power plants and the potential release of toxic gases into the atmosphere by terrorists, for example. These situations often involve very small amounts of the undesirable chemicals and are difficult to detect. If we’re worried about the release of toxic gases, we don’t want to send an airplane through the cloud of interest to collect information on what’s in it, and we want to know long before the cloud drifts toward us that we’re dealing with something dangerous.


In my Raman spectroscopy blog, I talked about our lab’s success at detecting trace quantities of anthrax using a variation of Raman spectroscopy. This inspired the idea of using Raman to detect atmospheric pollutants, since the sensitivity of Raman is unmatched when it comes to detecting tiny amounts of chemicals.


There are a few problems, though. Most obviously, clouds are really far away. Beyond that, even if we could shine a really high powered, well collimated laser up into the cloud, only a fraction of the laser photons will make it to the desired destination. On top of that, the scattered Raman signal is so weak, there’s no way enough photons would make it back to our detector on the ground to tell us what we’re looking at. They would get absorbed, scattered, or travel out of the solid angle of our detector. So you get loss both ways. No good.


What if we could put the laser on the other side of the experiment? Put the laser up inside the cloud and collect the photons on the ground to see what travels toward the detector (this is another spectroscopic technique; sometimes you look at what comes back at you, sometimes you look at what doesn't come back). Then we’d only have to fight loss in one direction. Better, but that loss is still too significant for us to detect just a few molecules. What we really need is some way to enhance this signal as it travels through the atmosphere.


This sounds like something that just isn't possible, but as you have gathered from the previous topics we've touched, quantum physics allows us to do a lot of seemingly impossible things.
Before I get into the idea of the “sky laser”, let me cover my references. This work is the brilliant idea of the professor I work for and several members of his group, and I’m going to keep my explanation here limited to the information included in the following paper (check it out if you want the details, it isn't too hard to follow):
http://acms.arizona.edu/MURI/Publications/37_standoff.pdf

So now on to the physics...

The goal: detect a few molecules of some toxin in a cloud somewhere in the sky.
How we propose to do it:

Getting a Raman signal is easy enough; shine a laser at a sample, it absorbs light, emits light, and you collect the emitted light and identify the molecule (see the Raman post linked above). The issue is getting this signal to be large enough, by the time it travels from the cloud back to the ground, to be detectable.

Aside:
+ Show Spoiler +
Let me define dispersion for those who don’t have a strong physics background:
Dispersion is the dependence of the group velocity on the wavelength of light as it travels through a medium. The group velocity is the speed of light divided by the refractive index of the material; the index of refraction contains the wavelength dependence. The atmosphere has a complicated dispersion relation because of its non-homogeneity. The important fact from all of this is not all colors of light travel through the atmosphere with the same group velocity.



Okay, pictures speak louder than words, so here we go:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


We first send out two femtosecond pulses separated by a time ∆t1,2. They have slightly different wavelengths and therefore travel at slightly different group velocities; we pick the wavelengths such that the second pulse travels faster than the first. Then, the second pulse will eventually catch up to the first and they will overlap; we choose ∆t1,2 so they overlap toward the back of the cloud of interest. These pulses excite the molecules of interest into a particular state, and in turn they will de-excite by emitting a photon corresponding to the excitation energy.

This light will be emitted in all directions, since at this point it is mostly spontaneous emission occurring (we just drew one dimension in the image). We care about the stuff emitted in the backward direction, because we’re sending out another set of pulses separated by a smaller ∆t3,4; these will overlap a little to the left of the first set of pulses.
So we have a group of excited atoms right next to this group of spontaneously emitted photons that have the exact energy needed to stimulate emission in these atoms. (sound familiar?) And stimulate emission they do! These emitted photons are going to travel in the same direction as the photons that stimulated the process: back toward the detector on the ground!

We keep sending these sets of 2 pulses and keep decreasing the value of ∆t so that we’re constantly preparing increasingly closer sections of the cloud for stimulated emission. This produces what they call “swept gain”; we’re getting continuous gain but instead of using a cavity like in a laser, we’re preparing the gain medium (the atmosphere) by sweeping the preparation pulses across the medium.
The result is that this light emitted from the particular molecule of interest travels back toward the detector on the ground, and the signal gets increasingly larger as it travels. This allows us to detect very small quantities of toxins because we only need a tiny signal to get this stimulated emission process started. We were able to do this by sending out laser pulses from the ground, too. We didn't have to put the laser on a plane and risk the pilot’s health to do the experiment.


Unsurprisingly this is very difficult to carry out experimentally. A femtosecond is really tiny, and those are the time scales we’re working with. Selecting the ∆t’s, the wavelengths, knowing very well the dispersion of air as a function of position in the atmosphere… all of these things are really difficult and have to be controlled to a very high accuracy or we won’t get the gain we want. So rather than going outside and trying these experiments in the real atmosphere, our researchers have been working with pure oxygen and pure nitrogen in the lab, and are simply trying to generate this amplified backward propagating pulse. They’re having some luck, too. It turns out that this is actually probably going to be demonstrated successfully at some point within the next few years, so that’s kind of exciting. Once we get a better idea of what is possible in an “idealized” situation, we can begin tweaking the technology to make the method more robust and suitable for mainstream implementation.


Thanks again for reading everyone! I hope you learned something new!
As always, questions/feedback/suggestions for future topics are encouraged!

****
airen
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden82 Posts
June 08 2014 20:59 GMT
#2
Cool!

So if I understand it correctly, having two photons in the same spot with the same phase can make them behave like a single photon (with the combined energy) for absorption? This wouldn't surprise me, but it would be nice with a confirmation on it. Rereading what you wrote I realize this might not have been exactly what you said, but I'll let the question stand as it asks what I'm interested in.

So, let's assume that is the case. Would you fear microwave ovens if they had no protective casing? Microwaves, AFAIK, release lots of photons of energies below what is considered harmful for us (by a factor somewhere around 10.000 I think). Is there any reasonable chance that these photons could add up and act like a dangerous photon? I realize this might be incredibly hard to calculate, I don't expect you to do that.

As a side note: I know most of current wireless communications are in the same frequency range.
Ideal26
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
United States185 Posts
June 08 2014 23:40 GMT
#3
On June 09 2014 05:59 airen wrote:
Cool!

So if I understand it correctly, having two photons in the same spot with the same phase can make them behave like a single photon (with the combined energy) for absorption? This wouldn't surprise me, but it would be nice with a confirmation on it. Rereading what you wrote I realize this might not have been exactly what you said, but I'll let the question stand as it asks what I'm interested in.

So, let's assume that is the case. Would you fear microwave ovens if they had no protective casing? Microwaves, AFAIK, release lots of photons of energies below what is considered harmful for us (by a factor somewhere around 10.000 I think). Is there any reasonable chance that these photons could add up and act like a dangerous photon? I realize this might be incredibly hard to calculate, I don't expect you to do that.

As a side note: I know most of current wireless communications are in the same frequency range.


Thanks for asking about this, I was going to include it but didn't know if it would be too small of a detail to include or not.

The process often goes like this:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


This is a typical energy level diagram. The left-most up arrow is the absorption of the first photon, the molecule the emits a photon with less energy and goes down to a low energy level, where it absorbs another photon (the second up arrow) and then it'll finally emit the photon that will be sent back toward the detector.
This is a pretty common scheme; wavelengths vary molecule to molecule, but the idea will be the same.
There are also cases in which the first decay is by-passed and you have true two-photon absorption. So like you said, two photons kind of act like one with a higher energy.

As far as the microwave question goes... any given atom/molecule can only absorb photons are very particular energies. (There are things in quantum mechanics called selection rules that determine which energies can be absorbed). So for something like what you suggested to happen, your molecule would have to have an energy level diagram that had almost very equal spacing since you only have photons in the GHz frequency range present in your microwave. In other words, the molecule would want to absorb photon after photon of the exact same energy to make its way up into a very excited state.
I'm pretty sure this isn't even theoretically possible based on how energy level diagrams are typically structured (they usually absorb very different energy photons based on what state they're in) and you'd also be fighting spontaneous and stimulated emission... remember that nature does not like excess energy. That molecule is going to try its hardest to get back to a low energy level after absorbing just one photon. This is why multi-photon excitation only happen in select atoms/molecules.
airen
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden82 Posts
June 09 2014 20:47 GMT
#4
Ok, thank you for your answer .

I'm sorry everyone else seems to have dropped off, I find your blog enlightening (pun idk) . If you feel like it's not worth the effort at the moment, that's fine with me. I'm in the joyful situation of moving from a large to a small apartment a.t.m, and while we are really happy about this (really!), it's eating up most of my time. So basically I don't have the time to dig deeper into stuff right now, but in a month or two I'll probably be back on track.

Still, sky lasers, wow. Makes it feel like humanity is only tapping on the potential of what we can do with lasers.
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
June 09 2014 22:26 GMT
#5
These blogs are fucking awesome
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
Ideal26
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
United States185 Posts
June 18 2014 01:59 GMT
#6
Hey guys.
My last couple of entries have gotten quite a few views over the past few days, so I thought I'd drop in and explain the lack of post this week. Things are super busy right now and I've been spending every weekend driving several hours to look at apartments in the city I'm moving to in less than 2 months. So I'm a little panicked trying not to be homeless and finishing up my research at my current job while training my replacement. When things settle down a little I will try to pick back up on these.

I really, really appreciate how successful you guys made many of the blog entries though! It's been so much fun and I hope to continue the physics discussions soon!
<33
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
June 18 2014 02:27 GMT
#7
These blogs have been pretty cool. I'm sure most people want to comment but don't want to look dumb xD
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:00
#30
RotterdaM779
TKL 302
IndyStarCraft 127
SteadfastSC86
BRAT_OK 75
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 726
TKL 302
Reynor 233
IndyStarCraft 127
ProTech122
BRAT_OK 92
SteadfastSC 82
UpATreeSC 56
JuggernautJason44
MindelVK 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 28398
Calm 3486
Horang2 1376
firebathero 237
Dewaltoss 65
Killer 59
Rock 44
scan(afreeca) 30
yabsab 12
Dota 2
Gorgc6937
qojqva3130
resolut1ontv 140
BananaSlamJamma114
Counter-Strike
adren_tv43
Other Games
Beastyqt609
ceh9360
Lowko316
Happy276
Hui .158
Liquid`VortiX150
QueenE54
Trikslyr54
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream6098
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 13
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 44
• Azhi_Dahaki33
• HerbMon 7
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV495
• lizZardDota233
League of Legends
• Nemesis5542
Other Games
• imaqtpie273
• Shiphtur213
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 8m
ChoboTeamLeague
7h 8m
WardiTV Korean Royale
18h 8m
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 3h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 7h
The PondCast
1d 16h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
IPSL
6 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.