• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:48
CEST 18:48
KST 01:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Mile High15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up2PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition245.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)108$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 151Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada11
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) WoL: how does "advanced construction" work? Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition ZvT - Army Composition - Slow Lings + Fast Banes
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Tenacious Turtle Tussle Stellar Fest $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Proposed Glossary of Strategic Uncertainty Current Meta TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art 9 hatch vs 10 hatch vs 12 hatch
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread What is the Bunty Club game, and what makes. Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts The Automated Ban List BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final
Blogs
[AI] From Comfort Women to …
Peanutsc
Mental Health In Esports: Wo…
TrAiDoS
Try to reverse getting fired …
Garnet
[ASL20] Players bad at pi…
pullarius1
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1676 users

Winning through Thinking

Blogs > 4rChon
Post a Reply
4rChon
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
150 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-29 19:19:42
April 29 2014 19:14 GMT
#1
This is just gonna be a quick write up of some thoughts I've been having. I wasn't sure if what I was thinking actually made sense so I decided to write it down and see if I find the right words to describe it. Hopefully it makes sense. I'd love to hear any opinions on this.

When I'm working on a math problem for homework, I have a list of tools that I can use to solve the problem. Each tool is an algorithm which crunches the numbers and outputs an answer. When the answer is incorrect then it is due to either one of two things:
  • I am using the wrong tool
  • I am using the algorithm incorrectly

To correct my answer I go through the working again and check the numbers. If the numbers seem to be correct then I choose another tool.

How do I maximise the probability of choosing the correct tool?


Mostly through pattern recognition. Some tools require the question to be in a certain pattern. Some tools don't really care about the pattern but approach the problem from a more fundamental point thus increasing the complexity of the solution. The solution not only has to be correct, but also as elegant and as simple as possible. I can find the area of a square in a grid by counting each grid box and adding them all up, but I can also measure the length of one side of the square and square it. The latter solution is obviously the superior one since it makes better use of the information we have to optimise the working.

What does this have to do with winning?


When applying formulas, one doesn't always think of why that formula works. When a problem is encountered, searching for another tool isn't always the answer. Sometimes you have to analyse the separate parts of your tool to really understand why the answer is incorrect.

In StarCraft II, build orders are your tools. Each applies to a range of situations for which you choose a build order to your liking that is applicable to your current situation and your game plan. Speaking from personal experience, I have unfortunately resorted to jumping from build order to build order to solve a whole match up. As if there is a single build order to rule them all. A perfect build order that will lead me by the hand all the way through the mid-game.

I slowly started to realise that this game is called a real time strategy game for a reason. I was so used to sticking to build orders, not thinking. It's almost like I've been using a calculator for arithmetic all my life that I've destroyed my own arithmetic calculating abilities. Like I forgot how to count. I just input the numbers in the machine and when the answer is not to my liking I just get mad that the machine isn't adding well enough when I myself barely know what adding is.

This epiphany led me to a more fluid play style where I actually think during the game. Now I've read a lot about how instincts dominate over thinking, but some instincts need to be developed through thinking to the point where coming up with a solution on the spot is instinctive. Thinking during the game means that I don't need to load myself with all the knowledge I need before the game. I just need a very loose guide of what the state of the game should be like after every significant action.

Day[9] has mentioned multiple times that your game plan is more important than the build order. In one of his dailies he pulls up notepad and writes down the set of objects you should be aiming to have during different phases of the game, regardless of their order.

This mentality has helped me the most in PvZ and less so, but still noticeable, in PvT, but has really thrown me back in PvP. I'd chalk this down to the possibility that PvP is much more focused upon the early game where the efficiency of the build matters so much more than in the other match ups. Information is more restricted. Thinking about a situation does not help as much because there are less concrete solutions to the problem The answer requires 'guesses' and 'estimations' until enough information is revealed, by which point it might already be too late.

It's very interesting to see how a different mentality is required for each match up. PvZ used to be my worst match up until I took to analysing the builds of my opponents, writing down their build orders to be able to conduct timing attacks on the fly rather than predetermined by my build order.

I'd love to read different opinions about this. I know different players take different approaches to solving different situations. Please keep in mind that this is just an opinion piece, nothing scientific. It's not meant to come to any specific conclusion, but to spur discussion on something that is perhaps subjective.

***
sluggaslamoo
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Australia4494 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-04-30 02:37:31
April 30 2014 02:36 GMT
#2
The issue is not the build order. The build order should you use should be the most reliable because you don't know who your opponent is and you will be wasting time learning unreliable build orders which reduce your winrate down to variance, not skill.

The problem is the players ability to adapt to what they scout. While you would open with the same build order, this build order may have to take a detour if you are trying to defend against cheese or spot a really greedy opening. The problem is most players do not adapt to what they scout, they follow the build order like their life depends on it. Having to build lots of defenses or make more units does not really mean you are using a different build order though, nor is it necessary to completely change your build order.
Come play Android Netrunner - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=409008
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Map Test Tournament
11:00
TLMC #15: Group A
WardiTV1099
ComeBackTV 648
IndyStarCraft 255
Rex98
3DClanTV 82
EnkiAlexander 49
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 303
IndyStarCraft 248
Rex 114
ProTech75
Livibee 73
Dewaltoss 49
Codebar 2
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31715
Bisu 6544
Shuttle 4951
Larva 1448
Soma 1042
hero 862
Light 780
Mini 572
Soulkey 510
Snow 488
[ Show more ]
firebathero 323
Rush 246
sorry 107
Sea.KH 76
Mind 64
Backho 62
scan(afreeca) 16
Terrorterran 12
Dota 2
Gorgc10041
Cr1tdota2928
qojqva2883
Dendi1096
BananaSlamJamma250
PGG 164
Counter-Strike
fl0m2168
olofmeister1459
Other Games
FrodaN1378
B2W.Neo848
Beastyqt458
crisheroes383
Lowko269
C9.Mang094
ToD65
Trikslyr64
Mew2King55
QueenE46
UpATreeSC31
JuggernautJason6
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV62
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 12
• FirePhoenix9
• blackmanpl 5
• Michael_bg 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3099
• WagamamaTV594
League of Legends
• Nemesis3437
• Jankos1996
• TFBlade893
Other Games
• Shiphtur246
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
7h 13m
Map Test Tournament
18h 13m
OSC
23h 13m
MaNa vs Harstem
ByuN vs TBD
HiGhDrA vs NightPhoenix
Iba vs Ziomek
TriGGeR vs MindelVK
Lemon vs TBD
YoungYakov vs PAPI
ArT vs sebesdes
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 6h
The PondCast
1d 17h
Map Test Tournament
1d 18h
OSC
1d 23h
Map Test Tournament
2 days
OSC
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Map Test Tournament
3 days
OSC
3 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
Safe House 2
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Map Test Tournament
4 days
OSC
4 days
IPSL
5 days
dxtr13 vs Napoleon
Doodle vs OldBoy
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Team Wars
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
Acropolis #4 - TS2
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
WardiTV TLMC #15
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
Frag Blocktober 2025
Urban Riga Open #1
FERJEE Rush 2025
Birch Cup 2025
DraculaN #2
LanDaLan #3
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.