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Hello TL,
Finding this pick
+ Show Spoiler +
made me want to try to learn korean. Now i'm french so maybe learning Korean with english tutorial is not the best thing, but this image looked a better place to start than a lot a free french site that i found (meaning it was too complicated to understand).
Now i'm already have difficulty doing this so i'm looking for help to understand.
Also i'm really looking for good websites in French if possible. I found an old thread with english one but i would really like to have one that is explain for the little children (meaning something i could understand easily).
Now i was trying to write the names of the character but some don't make sense and i don't understand what i do wrong. I did this in .. roughly 20 minutes so don't judge too much  (i hope i'm not being trolled and that this picture is legit).
So far i have : (top to bottom)
- B A T MA NO
- TO TO RO
- MO
- MA RI NOO (is that WO ?)
- NI MO
- H A RI PO TA
- NOER MO (no idea)
- MI KI
- GOR REM (I think it's golum) but i don't get why
Edit : i don't understand how NO become H (it's written in the pick) i was at the start writting CHO A RI PO TA
I wanted to try to write name of progamer too but i just can't find how to do "L"
Also looking to a french/korean site i found this in an exercize
김태호
But i don't get how the first symbol is not GIM but KIM
I know the answer is KIM TAE HO
but i just find GIM TA HO. What am i doing wrong ?
I think i need to know how to read the thing before learning real sentence. Am i right ?
 
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On December 16 2013 22:52 krndandaman wrote:
the pronunciations are more like
- bet men BATMAN
- to to ro TO TO RO
- mo MOE
- ma ri oh MARIO
- knee(ni) mo NEMO
- heh ri po tuh HARRY POTTER
- el mo ELMO
- me key MICKEY
- gol (l/r)um GOLLUM
Thank you 
I don't get how you have BET and not BAT. When i look at the pictures the thing that ressemble a H is A. How do you find E ? what did i do wrong ?
Or are you talking about pronounciation ? Because i'm not there at all lol. It's my first try at matching the letters.
IS R and L the same thing ?
EDIT : i'm editing because i have a lot of questions
김 is romanized as "kim" but is pronounced with the softer "gim"
the pronunciation would be "gim tae ho"
I don't understand how you get TAE when i just romanize to just TA
- ma ri oh MARIO
How do you get "OH" ?
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ㄴ is "N"
ㅇ at the beginning of a word is silent.
So "NOER MO" is actually Elmo (엘모)
마리오 is Mario... there's no N there. 오 is Oh. 노 would be Noh
골럼
goh with an r sound...
gohl for the first part
r and "eo" (uh sound) with m...
gohl r-uh-m. gollum
김태호.
g and k make similar sounds, that's why it's "Gim" and "Kim". They are very similar. The sound is more "in between" those two sounds.
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You romanize 태 to tae because it's not "ta" which would sound like "tah" phonetically. It's like "tay". ㅐ makes a kind of "ay" sound phonetically, but it's romanized ae.
타 would be "tah".
edit:
It's "Oh" look at the picture... it says ㅗ is like "over" which is the sound "Oh". I don't think that picture is very good... There's many many other websites that can teach you Hangeul probably more efficiently.
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For example, Lee JaeDong is actually 이재동 which is "ee jae dong" not "lee". People whose names have "Lee" in them are actually "ee" 이.
When you have the ㅇ in front, it makes the first sound that comes from the "word" is silent, so it begins with the vowel and it may or may not have a consonant at the end. Like 안. Is "Ah-n". So as you can see the first part of "Ah" doesn't have a consonant, so we just go right into the ㅏ part, and finish with the "n".
And yes, the L sound is at the end of '럼' so it's more of an "L" sound than an "R" sound.
I would google how to enable a Korean keyboard for your specific keyboard set up (not sure how Europeans might do it).
For Mario...
마 = "m-ah"
리 = "ree"
오 = "oh"
Mah ree oh. Mario. There's no "h" or "N" sound in those consonants.
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That's really helpfull. Thank you to both of you. I'm gonna get back to work. I'm really pump for this because i always thought it would be as difficult as japenese.
Thank you again !
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Oh. Would you happen to know where to buy an AZERTY, Korean keyboard ? I found some in QWERTY (well i could change the keys). It would be easier for me i think.
EDIT : Found this
http://www.lexilogos.com/clavier/hangeul.htm
How do you spell the name of Flash ? Because of Young. Is it : 이융오 ? or 이용오 ? Or neither ?
EDIT 2 : ohhhh it's yeong so => 이영호 ?
EDIT 3 : i'm reading trough wikis and i can't find the translation for
I AM
YOU ARE
HE IS
WE ARE
THEY ARE
i wanted to learn the "conjugaison ?" (sorry i don't know how you say that in english) of a simple verb such as BE (and later HAVE).
I found that to be is : 이다 ( i da ?) but i don't know how to phrase i, you and he with the verb.
Like : "i" 이다 안퇀
EDIT 4 (yeah i know) : Is there a Z sound ?
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No Z,W,F in Korea (W=V because I'm Polish ) That's I guess how "Hwaiting" was born.
Yes, Flash is 이영호 (I Yeong Ho)
The "i da" is a verb ending, a suffix, and verbs are at the end of a sentence, that's why their sentences often seem to end the same. I do not speak Korean so I don't want to play a know-it-all but I believe for such short phrases the Google translate should suffice so try there.
Edit: Spelling
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The 다 at the end is typically the infinitive form (though also used as a conjugation if you will).
EDIT 3 : i'm reading trough wikis and i can't find the translation for
I AM
YOU ARE
HE IS
WE ARE
THEY ARE
Regarding the different personal pronouns, they are all conjugated the same:
Whether it's "I am Only" "You are Only" "He is Only" doesn't matter, you would always say "Only 입니다" with "ㅂ니다" being the conjugation for all of them. That's why the context in which it is used is extremely important.
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On December 16 2013 23:52 FFW_Rude wrote:
EDIT 3 : i'm reading trough wikis and i can't find the translation for
I AM
YOU ARE
HE IS
WE ARE
THEY ARE
i wanted to learn the "conjugaison ?" (sorry i don't know how you say that in english) of a simple verb such as BE (and later HAVE).
I found that to be is : 이다 ( i da ?) but i don't know how to phrase i, you and he with the verb.
Like : "i" 이다 안퇀
EDIT 4 (yeah i know) : Is there a Z sound ?
To conjugate 이다 in the normal, polite speech you put it at the end of the sentence and change it to either 이에요, or 예요. 이에요 if it follows a a syllable ending in a consonant, and 예요 after vowels. The polite word for "I" is 저, so in the example you posted it becomes 저는 안퇀이에요. The '는' indicates that '저' is the topic of the sentence. 이다 has a different conjugation rule than other verbs, but for all the other verbs you will only have to know a couple of simple rules and there are only a small number of exceptions. Pronouns like you, he, she, they, etc are a bit different in Korean and most of the time you will just use the context to understand what the sentence means
For the verb HAVE, 있다, you drop the 다 and add '어요'. This rule applies to all verbs whose final vowel is NOT ㅏ or ㅗ. So 있다 becomes 있어요. Example: 컴퓨터 있어요 = (I) have (a) computer.
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Thanks to all of you. So it's normal that i didn't found anything.
So basicly from what i've read korean is written as a ... hum... really simple form of english ? (i don't know how to phrase that).
For exemple :
i have a computer and i am happy that it works so well.
it would be something like :
have computer. Works well. Happy
Something like that ?
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On December 17 2013 03:39 FFW_Rude wrote:
Thanks to all of you. So it's normal that i didn't found anything.
So basicly from what i've read korean is written as a ... hum... really simple form of english ? (i don't know how to phrase that).
For exemple :
i have a computer and i am happy that it works so well.
it would be something like :
have computer. Works well. Happy
Something like that ?
Not really. Korean can be shorter because just like Japanese, they don't mind dropping useless pronouns. If you're holding a cookie and say "have cookie", it's obvious you mean that you have a cookie. In many western languages, skipping the pronoun is not an option though, we have to be overly clear.
It's not simple though. Skipping pronouns is just a shorter way to speak, you still have politeness, a ton of conjugations etc.
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If you're serious about learning Korean (or really any language with a different grammar structure), you should stop trying to 'translate' sentences as soon as possible and learn how sentences are formed in said language instead. Sentence order and structure in Korean is completely different from English or French, as is the way they conjugate their verbs, form (and use) other parts of speech such as adjectives or adverbs; the words you might use in nearly every passage of English (or French) such as 'I' or 'to be' are hardly ever used in colloquial Korean, etc.
Once you get through the basics, Korean is a fairly straightforward language to learn; it's just that these basics are completely different from any European language, so it can be a little difficult to drop the old habits.
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Okay there is stuff that i don't understand. I wrote down sentences and tried to match them to ideagrams. Like :
an nyeong hi ju mu se yo => 안 녕 히 주 무 세 요
Like that. I succeeded almost minus a few errors but they are "sounds" that i don't know how to write (and so... how to read)
- syeoss => I assume it's composed with S YEO SS => ᄉ 여 ᄊ but i don't know how to match them.
- Naess => I assume it's composed with N AE SS => 내ᄊ But i don't know how to match them either.
Also. Why "EO" => 어 not "E" ? like A => 아
Thanks
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syeoss = 셨
naess = 냈
As for 어, It might be better to think of it like 'uh' instead of 'eo'.
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On December 18 2013 06:37 ZeroChrome wrote:
syeoss = 셨
naess = 냈
As for 어, It might be better to think of it like 'uh' instead of 'eo'.
Oh ok. That's what i thought but i use a korean simulator keyboard to check my alphabet exercice and it didn't want to put the ^^ at the bottom...
i use this : http://www.lexilogos.com/clavier/hangeul.htm
When i will have less difficulty "translating" the alphabet i'm going to learn how to pronouce the "letters". Then i'll start to learn the structures and sentences.
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Mm, I have no trouble reading and pronouncing (not super quickly but reasonably so) the characters but I've yet to learn grammar and vocabulary. I'm getting afraid of failure before I've even started putting real effort into it. :Þ
Looks like I have some reading (of replies here) to do.
Oh and on the topic of things like 김=Kim, I read and watched youtube videos suggesting that those characters are usually pronounced closer to the more "snappy/clicky" (my wording) but similar sound when they are the first part of a word, so the "G" character there does actually sound more like a "K".
If you think about it, those characters come from the same areas of the mouth and usually just involve creating slightly more "lighter"/"poppy" (again, my wording) sounds from the tongue or lips.
So the idea was that at the start of a word:
ㅂ(B)->"(P)" ㅍ
ㅈ(J)->"(C)" ㅊ
ㄷ(D)->"(T)" ㅌ
ㄱ(G)->"(K)"ㅋ
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I'm yet to the pronouciation as i haven't properly learn the alphabet.
That's a good thing to know though. Thank you
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I am also learning Korean at the moment, and so far it's working out quite well for me.
You really need to learn Hangeul, because the romanization only causes unnecessary trouble. it's also easier to remember the pronounciation rules when you see a word in hangeul, because a lot of rules apply to sounds happening either at the beginning or the end of a syllable. You can't really "translate" the alphabet without butchering the language. The whole Korean alphabet is very logical and even confusing stuff like the diphtongs is really easy to understand once you "get" the way the alphabet works.
As to the pronounciation of certain consonants: Basically, there are three groups of them: The "basic" ones, the aspirated ones and the tense ones ("double consonants"). There are tons of good learning material on the internet, just look for stuff on youtube or, for example, on talktomeinkorean.com.
The basic syntax is kinda strange for us europeans, because it's subject - object - verb.
In my beginners course, we're working with the "Beautiful Korean" books, and I really like them, because they force you to study hard. First, you get bombarded with tons of words to memorize the alphabet and syllable construction rules. Then you'll learn some basic expressions, before you're finally entering the stage of learning the actual language. (conjugation, syntax, particles, etc.)
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I sure am writing something wrong in this thread because you are not the first person that tells me to learn hangeul which is exactly what i'm doing (Or maybe i don't know what hangeul means ?)
I'm just at the start, figuring out what the symbol means
Basicly i write sentences like this : an yeong something. and i write under it how it is spelled in ideaograms just to understand/remember how the vowels and "consonnes ?" works.
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Unless I'm missing something, Hangul (Anglicised form of the romanisation "Hangeul", I suppose) is the Korean Alphabet you are learning, this stuff:
ㅁㄴ혀야무ㅉ따ㅗ야아ㅣ (though that certainly was just spam rather than a sentence just then).
I think they're just pointing out the importance of learning it over trying to base everything on romanised forms such as
ㅋ=K
ㄱ=G
ㅎ=H etc.
Aside from trying to get used to reading it as quickly as possible, another concern with learning romanisations is that that there are different methods people use to represent the characters.
If you look at the Wkipedia pages fofr say Seouland Pusan, you'll see "Revised Romanization" and "McCune–Reischauer" romanisations listed.
Simply put, the revised method seems to represent each Korean character (Hangeul/한글) to Roman letters with a strict method.
Some people don't like this as much because some characters are not represented in a way that is intuitive for people to pronounce if English or even another Roman letter-based language is their first language.
Examples are ㅓ,ㅕ&ㅡ, which are written as eo, yeo & eu.
Those are pronounced more like "uh"*, "yuh" & "uuh", assuming the last is somewhat similar to the U in "pull".
*These can be a bit like a short "o' sound though, based on accent and maybe the exact word, I believe.
So if you have trouble getting used to that, it could really confuse you and getting used to recognising the actual Korean characters is always going to be important in the long run, but personally I think understanding how they get romanised is still useful, at least for understanding some fellow TL users.
The other methods for romanisation (which are the source of all other confusion on the matter >_<) attempt to represent based on the pronunciation English-speakers expect, such as 영 becoming "Young" instead of "Yeong" yet 정 becoming "Jung" instead of "Jeong" or "Joung" (last being odd but consistent with their previous "Young).
The very arbitrary yet simultaneously inconsistent interpretation of how people should want to write different combinations of sounds in Korean (different representations for the same vowel sounds with different consonants before them) makes me hate this method and I dearly wish TL would convert all romanised player names to the strict code, because it makes trying to figure out BW player names I see on stream much easier, as I can read the Korean and then more easily type it out in Roman letters. Yeah, do it just for me, TL! ^__^"
Anyway, that should tell you why you can see different transliterations and why it's good to focus on the Hangeul.
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Did you look at the link that i provided just a few posts ago ? Is it accurate ? Meaning that this doesn't have the young but the yeong etc... ?
EDIT : => This one => http://www.lexilogos.com/clavier/hangeul.htm
Your explanations are understandable but i'm so at the start that i have trouble understanding it all
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I didn't, sorry, but yes, that's the typical method ("revised romanisation").
One thing to watch out for is that even in that method, they represent some characters with Ws (wa, wan, wal, wang, wo, won etc.) which use the ㅗ ("o") followed by another vowel.
In the case of the "w-o-" ones (wo, won, wol), the "O" in there is actually ㅓ, which you'd normally write as "eo" but for some reason that inconsistency slipped in, making it "wo" instead of "oeo". "Oeo" probably looks very unnatural though, so it would have been to make it a tad more intuitive. 
There's also that 외 ("oe") which actually uses the "o" and "i" characters and from what I can hear in songs, it seems to sound more like "weh", as if written 오ㅔ or something like that. Presently, I don't understand why!
One final note I can think of: it might have been pointed out but the last character in each word is often quite softly pronounced and might be more short or nasal when you hear it in speech or songs. It might be the ㄷ&ㅌ characters especially.
If you do what I do and try to pronounce some k-pop lyrics, don't be surprised if something like (analysing accents excessively? ㅋㅋㅋ) sijakdoeneun kkeutnaganeun seems to sound closer to "shee-ja-DWAY-nuhn koo-nah-gah-nuhn".
This is me trying to be very precise though, which isn't really important for us at this stage compared to just learning and recalling vocabulary!
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congratz FFW_Rude
undertaking this (living your dream awake) is inspiring/cool and we are all proud/happy of/with you
bon courage, tu vas y arriver j'en suis sûr
trans+ Show Spoiler +(good luck, you are going to make it happen)
ps edit: thank you to all helping him 
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Thanks to all of you.
I'll be taking the lessons and i need to learn pronounciation now that i can barely read short korean names or wtv (did this on SKT vs KT last night). Tried to read or translate in my head the names. Got it ... almost right (like 80%) but without the pronounciation... it's gonna be hard.
Thanks to all of you
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Hey guys.
After failing finding a teacher, getting ton of work and occupations that didn't motivate me i'm back learning some korean.
I bought 3 books which are basicly
- Korean for dummy
- A vocabulary/exercice book named Kimchi (it's really a nice one)
- An exercice book with almost no French in it (yeah i didn't bought english books).
I try to memorize alphabet and some expression from the first exercice of Kimchi but there's some subtility i don't get (and it's not explained in the book).
For exemple the formal "hello".
it's written in the book as :
안녕하십니까
Which i read :
안 = An
녕 = nyeong
하 = ha
십 = sip
니 = ni
까 = kka
Apparently this is not correct as 십 is translated as SHIM and not SIp
So are all S and a voyel behind it SH ? Or only with the I ?
Why this sound as a M and is not 심 is something i don't get either.
I have other instance of this in : Nice to meet you formal.
In the book :
반갑습니다
I read that as :
반 = ban
갑 = gam
습 = seup
니 = ni
다 = da
But apparently it's ban gap sseum ni da
There's no SS which would be for sseup => 씁 and there's no M which for sseum if i am right would be : 씀
The rest is alrght but that's some of the thing i dont get 
I have audio files with the books but not for everything and my two questions aren't in the audio
But i have faith since i think i improve my reading speed. And i start to memorize things
Annyeonghi gyeseyo !
(sorry it's a pain in this ass to type korean with a virtual keyboard :p)
EDIT : looked again at misu's blog and apparently ^I is SHI. But is it always ?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/3968335_700b.jpg)
