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It should be noted that the requirements for this game are absolutely brutal. I loved Natural Selection (1), but I don't have a chance of running this on the laptop for college.
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This game is really really good.
probably the best example there is of good asymmetrical gameplay.
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I just wish the player base was bigger.
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love this game, but nobody plays it in my servers xD
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On November 01 2013 00:57 PassiveAce wrote:
probably the best example there is of good asymmetrical gameplay.
Completely false. Tribes 2 to this day is the gold standard for asymmetrical gameplay in an fps (and has sublime team-based design in general).
NS2 has a LOT of problems. The skill curve is enormous, so unless you like getting shat on by good fps players or have a competitive background, you'll probably run into some problems where you die constantly without doing much.
Optimization is still a problem, despite it having improved drastically. If you don't have a very powerful cpu, you will probably average 60 or less fps (a huge deal in an aim-dependent fps game).
Aliens and marines are poorly balanced, and the game snowballs way too quickly. Once you get a feel for the game, it's easy to predict the winner of the game based on just the first few engagements, yet the game will drag out for 20-30 minutes. The dark visuals are awful, and you'll find yourself straining your eyes to spot and track skulks (another big game design no-no for low ttk/aim-dependent fps games). Punishments on aliens are really severe, meaning you play as the shitty skulk life form unless you're already competent with the other life forms (which requires, you guessed it, grinding out play time on those life forms). A competitive friend of mine joked that the entire point of playing aliens in ns2 was to "not be the skulk." The strategy in the game is almost non-existent. There are a very small number of build orders that are just plain better than the rest. Most of the game is won through fps skills, not commanding skills. However, an incompetent commander is easily capable of ruining the game for his team. In addition, if you come from a reasonable rts background, commanding is extremely easy, has a low skill ceiling, and is simultaneously frustrating because of the poor commanding UI. Basically, the commander is a terrible idea that ruins pub games and doesn't really add much to the game.
Despite all this, it's still a better game than most of the crap released nowadays. This says more about the state of the modern fps market than it does for the game itself, though.
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I have 256 hours into this game, no idea how many for NS1.
I highly recommend it if you are looking for a twitch shooter with tactics, teamwork, and a pretty deep skill curve.
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On October 31 2013 23:23 FFGenerations wrote:
NS2 is an amazing spectator sport and I hope I have introduced some people to it, in the way that I was randomly introduced to it in the past!
The rest is subjective, I guess, but I have to say that NS2 has a long, long way to go before you can call it an actual spectator sport, not to speak of an amazing one. It's nowhere on the same solar system as the modern esport games like SC2, Dota 2 or LoL. NS2 doesn't have any kind of functional replay system, no actual way to spectate commanders and even the first person spectating is quite inaccurate compared to mainstream engines.
There are shoutcasters casting some matches, but quite frankly they mostly do very casual play-by-plays without any kind of actual insight to the game. Basically you can maybe have a HD/Husky styled lightweight casual viewing experience, but that's already a bit of a stretch and even then the feature set puts big limitations on when and what you can find for viewing.
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On November 01 2013 02:38 Bacillus wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2013 23:23 FFGenerations wrote:
NS2 is an amazing spectator sport and I hope I have introduced some people to it, in the way that I was randomly introduced to it in the past!
The rest is subjective, I guess, but I have to say that NS2 has a long, long way to go before you can call it an actual spectator sport, not to speak of an amazing one. It's nowhere on the same solar system as the modern esport games like SC2, Dota 2 or LoL. NS2 doesn't have any kind of functional replay system, no actual way to spectate commanders and even the first person spectating is quite inaccurate compared to mainstream engines. There are shoutcasters casting some matches, but quite frankly they mostly do very casual play-by-plays without any kind of actual insight to the game. Basically you can maybe have a HD/Husky styled lightweight casual viewing experience, but that's already a bit of a stretch and even then the feature set puts big limitations on when and what you can find for viewing.
The game itself isn't build for a spectator friendly esport.
The asthetics are entirely geared for the first person shooter view.
It is kinda why I feel like CS, even though I love playing it, is awfully boring to watch.
Compare this to street fighter where I don't even know how to play but man is it amazing to see pro's go at it in that game.
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wow, i will never say anything is good ever again o_O
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On November 01 2013 02:42 decemberscalm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 02:38 Bacillus wrote:On October 31 2013 23:23 FFGenerations wrote:
NS2 is an amazing spectator sport and I hope I have introduced some people to it, in the way that I was randomly introduced to it in the past!
The rest is subjective, I guess, but I have to say that NS2 has a long, long way to go before you can call it an actual spectator sport, not to speak of an amazing one. It's nowhere on the same solar system as the modern esport games like SC2, Dota 2 or LoL. NS2 doesn't have any kind of functional replay system, no actual way to spectate commanders and even the first person spectating is quite inaccurate compared to mainstream engines. There are shoutcasters casting some matches, but quite frankly they mostly do very casual play-by-plays without any kind of actual insight to the game. Basically you can maybe have a HD/Husky styled lightweight casual viewing experience, but that's already a bit of a stretch and even then the feature set puts big limitations on when and what you can find for viewing. The game itself isn't build for a spectator friendly esport. The asthetics are entirely geared for the first person shooter view. It is kinda why I feel like CS, even though I love playing it, is awfully boring to watch. Compare this to street fighter where I don't even know how to play but man is it amazing to see pro's go at it in that game.
I think the concept itself has quite a lot of potential. NS1 was very enjoyable to spectate when you knew how to do it and with some slick broadcasting system it probably could've been turned into a exciting spectating experience. The RTS elements also gave the matches a certain kind of progression and focus, just like full blooded RTS games have. Despite the somewhat predictable round progression, the game also allowed very recognizeable play styles and finesse both on RTS and FPS layers, a little like BW has for example.
I'm not sure about NS2 thought, the new resoucre model and such seem make the game play out less focused and less detailful than the predecessor. My understanding on the finer aspects is pretty limited though as there's practically no way to get a highly detailed look at any games.
On November 01 2013 02:46 FFGenerations wrote:
wow, i will never say anything is good ever again o_O
You have to understand that most of TL consists of Dota 2, BW and SC2 players. The games set the bar pretty high when it comes to spectating and such.
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On November 01 2013 03:20 Bacillus wrote:
You have to understand that most of TL consists of Dota 2, BW and SC2 players. The games set the bar pretty high when it comes to spectating and such.
not really. Starcraft 2 has a lot of visual design problems and clutter when spectating, and mobas are pretty much unwatchable unless you're familiar with the genre.
I'd say the only relatively spectator-friendly gaming experiences are fighting games and quake duels
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The only game that I've seen that really integrates the commander/player-unit concept well is Allegiance. Where the commander actually matters and requires skill, not only through tech tree gameplay, but leadership abilities as well.
Unfortunately its pretty much dead these days though there still is a community around it over at www.freeallegiance.org .
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On November 01 2013 03:26 seequeue wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 03:20 Bacillus wrote:
You have to understand that most of TL consists of Dota 2, BW and SC2 players. The games set the bar pretty high when it comes to spectating and such. not really. Starcraft 2 has a lot of visual design problems and clutter when spectating, and mobas are pretty much unwatchable unless you're familiar with the genre. I'd say the only relatively spectator-friendly gaming experiences are fighting games and quake duels
Obviously you're going to have hard time appreciating any game (including fighting games and Quake) if you're not familiar with the context.
Nevertheless, the gripes you mentioned (I'm not even completely sure which SC2 visual desing issues and clutter you're refferring to) are almost inexistant compared to missing core features of NS2 spectating. All major esports are still more than capable in delivering the broadcast properly whereas NS2 doesn't all the way have the tools needed for that.
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Bought 2x 4 packs so I can play with my friends. Haven't played it yet but hoping it has good replay-ability.
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This concept is what I've always thought would make a cool "ultimate game" (term I just made up)! One player oversees the whole operation like in starcraft, the fps players act like the units (maybe more in the style of moba heroes...or maybe not), and the puzzle players would gather the resources or design the simcity or something (like some stuff outta Starjeweled, or maybe with more advanced/complex puzzles). The possibilities are endless when it's all in your head, lol.
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is there PVP in this game, or is it just players versus AI?
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On November 01 2013 07:17 DW-Unrec wrote:
is there PVP in this game, or is it just players versus AI?
Did ya watch the videos mate?
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the marines in ns2 definitely require good leadership, the aliens not so much, more sticking in groups and then transitioning into lurk/fade depends on the individuals skills.
anyway, i hope they've worked out all the kinks they had early on, but imo until technology advances, games that require fps pings but a large community for team play like this will always struggle.
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EPT
