On October 25 2013 00:40 Kergy wrote: One less reason to care about SC2.
Yea - because ZerO was like super relevent to the scene.
I wonder how many of the people who claim that SC2 is dying is coming from a BW background, because as someone who didn't follow BW people such as Bisu, Jangbi, ZerO and so on might aswell never have exsisted. I understand that these players have a huge legacy from BW but to be fair, almost none of them added anything to the SC2 scene. Most casual viewers who only watches Premier League and Premier tournaments might not even have seen more than a few games these people. During the eight months Proleague ran Bisu played like 20 games or so.
Obviously Kespa players didn't make quite the impact on the scene that people expected them to do, and i can understand why people who used to be at the top of the food-chain wouldn't want to start all over again.
I never say BW is dieing, but I am someone who came from BW and waited 2 years and watched SC2 consistently anticipating the BW switch of Kespa pros to SC2 because I love them as people themselves and wanted to be able to support them in SC2. I feel like it's just a strong vocal minority of people that ring loud when they says SC2 is dieing and it hurts. The same a**holes did it to BW when times were tough. But years later I'm having tons of fun with BW still. SC2 will do the same thing.
Sooner or later you just have to drown them out. But it's not BW fans that are preaching this. Pure BW fans just don't care to waste their time here and hurt people. It's an infection within the SC2 community itself. The responsibility falls on the abundance of fans the still remain the SC2 world to start being louder than the vocal minority. I left SC2 forums for a while because the SC2 community stopped having pride and being supportive. Instead posters have allowed the vocal minority to walk over them.
Instead of replying to the SC2 dieing preachers take an effort to discuss games in forums. Make jokes with each other. Start rivalry battles in LR thread. Make cheerfuls. For fuck sakes scream as loud as you can at every game about how amazing it was. Then the bug will come back. The one that made everyone want to be a part of Starcraft 2. The one that took the world by storm. Stop blaming people and get your shit together SC2 community.
This isn't just a blog about feelings. This is something I believe everyone knows in their hearts but needs to hear it anyway.
Have you ever read "The Sky is Falling"? The story is about Chicken Little, a small chicken who believes the end of the world is coming when an acorn falls on his head. This leaves Little to the conclusion that the sky is falling. Quickly Little spreads the word and sends panic across the world. Starcraft 2 has it's own Chicken Little. We can't point out where it started and therefore there is no one to blame. But what we do know is the "Sky" is most definitely not falling!
SC2 is dieing has become a popular term in the SC2 esports community. But it is not and it won't. There will always be people shitting on your game no matter what state it is currently in. The same assholes who say it's dieing now were the same ones who said it was dieing in Wings of Liberty, and the same ones who preached it during SC2 beta, and are the same people who said Brood War was outdated and wouldn't exist anymore when SC2 came out. Do you see the trend here?
The hardest part about enjoying SC2 is when we allow the community to become infected. Think about the age range of viewers for the game. A lot of us older users (me being 25), can often forget that the new generation is actually quite young. SC2 gets an age reset in the ESports community. Young players like Maru come about just like Flash in Brood War. And with them flood in 14 and 15 year old kids who want to be Starcraft 2 pros and watch these players like they are Michael Jordan.
We NOT only ruin the moment for these kids who are in love with the Michael Jordans of Starcraft 2, but we ruin it for ourselves. There is a severe need for a positive outlook on the damn game. If you really have issues with blizzard please ravage the bnet forums. They are there to vent anger. If you hate a tournament format or an event then give them feedback on their websites but make it positive and productive feedback please.
I will now address a few infectious things in the current community.
Players Retiring: A lot of KESPA players have retired lately. That's it. KESPA, KESPA players. If you are uninformed, Kespa players are SC1 players who were told to play a completely different game. Almost all of the players said ok and would give it a shot. A year later they had a decision. Is this game something I enjoy? or Should I return to the game I've put 12 hrs a day into for the past 10 years of my life? It's honestly stupid for you to think the SC2 is an easy choice for all of them. Why do something you aren't passionate about? It doesn't mean SC2 is a bad game, they just want to return to the game that they started competitive gaming for. But in the end SC2 still got great players such as Innovation, Dear, Soulkey, Rain, Jaedong and more who seem to embrace the change. So stop freaking out about KESPA players that retire. It makes sense.
Caster Bashing: Casters are honestly the most under appreciated work horses in the industry. They have to watch replays, watch vods of tournaments they are casting, keep up with player results, play the games themselves, and constantly stay current with the metagame. Does that seem easy? Cause then they also have to travel through time zones, constantly reach out for the next job available, not see family or friends for weeks/months at a time. This is just the surface of what we can identify casters are doing for you. Then there are a slew of mid to lower level caster trying to put in the great many hours just to work their way up and also to share with you the abundance of love for the game. All the top casters you see now spent years getting to where they are. It's not like magic and luck brought them there. Not every caster fits your style. Deal with it. Enjoy the fact that you get to watch another game of Starcraft and appreciate that the person talking to you is earning a paycheck so they can get though life like any other hard working man. Anyone who bashes a caster is another cancer cell working its hardest to ruin everyones fun.
ESports and other games: SC2 doesn't need to be #1, it just needs to be. Do you think Marvel vs Capcom gaming fans give a shit if League is doing really well. I doubt they talk about the game ever. Do you really think BW fans sit around hoping SC2 will die because it hurt SC1? The answer is no. The SC1 community just wants to watch good games and encourage each other. There isn't a secret conclave discussing how to kill SC2. My point is, focus on SC2 and stop worrying about the other games. That is the responsibility of their fans to keep those games running. Why am I active in the SC1, SC2, and League forums. Because I just like seeing people passionate about competitive gaming. But you don't have to be like me. Just love SC2.
Blizzard: I touched on this in my opening statement. BNet forums are there for a reason.
LR Threads: The WCS S3 thread was the best LR thread I've seen this year. I felt like everyone has started to come together to push out the trash posters, but a lot of work still has to be done. LR threads are threads are for player trash talking. That's right, you are allowed to insult teams and make fanboys cry. That's part of the fun. The thread is for cheering on what you liked and just saw. Post "Holy Shit that was awesome" when you're really impressed. The thread is for analyzing players when you see them make a mistake. Discuss solutions to the problem not how much they suck because the race is broken. Reignite the rivalry. SC2 teams should mean something. Start becoming a fierce fan for all players on your team in individual and team tournaments. If you don't have a team, pick the one with the cutest player. That's what worked out well for me. Most importantly, ignore all the negative people in threads. Don't quote them, don't reply to them. Just let it be cause in 1 minute a new page is added to the thread with 20 new positive comments drowning out the bad ones.
Conclusion: There's a lot of stuff I just wrote cause I know that SC2 is on the verge of greatness. This community has so much potential to be the best f-ing fans for a game world wide. A medium amount of fans that love the game is better then a massive amount of semifans that don't care about it's community or the players.I couldn't be more proud to be a fan of SC1. Eveyone who knows me knows I've supported SKT T1 and Bisu as much as possible. SC2 fans, it's your responsibility to take this type of passion I have and I know you have, to the next level.
...And no, SC2 doesn't need saving, it is doing just fine. It just needs our love..
Well said BisuDagger. I'm the one who put your post on reddit to get it more exposure because I felt it spoke so much truth and its something the community needed to hear. This is a great follow up! Thanks for the insight, I agree we need teams to be supported more as well, and player trash talk is lots of fun
On October 29 2013 09:54 ZeromuS wrote: Well said BisuDagger. I'm the one who put your post on reddit to get it more exposure because I felt it spoke so much truth and its something the community needed to hear. This is a great follow up! Thanks for the insight, I agree we need teams to be supported more as well, and player trash talk is lots of fun
You're right, that there is no secret Plan to kill SC2 in the BW community. I mean why would we? As a BW fan, i'm looking forward to the devlopment of my game, do help it grow to support it and to be a part of it's community. I dont even think about Sc2 a lot. I think your attitude is very healthy. We all should just start to support our game and stop worrying about the rest.
To be fair, some casters (not gonna name anyone for the sake of avoiding flamewars, and because it's partially personal opinion) really do give the impression they just can't be bothered to study the game. I've posted several times in lr threads correcting something wrong said by a caster, and it's not like im an sc2 genius, i just happen to have learnt the game very well over the years. Some casters just...don't know it despite it being their job, which baffles me.
It's still not a good excuse for shitposting and caster bashing in lr threads of course.
Also hell of a post, 5/5. The community would be appear to be so much better if that freaking vocal minority crying doom and desperation just shut up.
This reminds me of people saying wc3 was dying. It wasn't until last year that I actually switched to sc2, because there were just weaker players left where I live and I had like 300-400 ping to good players from other countries. I just had as much fun as I could until it wasn't worth staying around anymore.
It's ridiculous to see people talk about sc2 dying when there's still an expansion to come.
Almost every top gamer in SC2 played for a Kespa team at one point. SC2 fans always pretend like Kespa never made an impact on the SC2 scene, and quietly act like Bogus never existed. In fact, every top 10 player list is all players who played either BroodWar or WarCraft 3. There is no consistent champion in SC2, because unlike BW or WC3, SC2 is constantly changing drastically, so that the changes affect very fundamental elements of gameplay. That, in my opinion, is one of the main problems with SC2.
On October 29 2013 10:38 ninazerg wrote: Almost every top gamer in SC2 played for a Kespa team at one point. SC2 fans always pretend like Kespa never made an impact on the SC2 scene, and quietly act like Bogus never existed. In fact, every top 10 player list is all players who played either BroodWar or WarCraft 3. There is no consistent champion in SC2, because unlike BW or WC3, SC2 is constantly changing drastically, so that the changes affect very fundamental elements of gameplay. That, in my opinion, is one of the main problems with SC2.
What does you're post accomplish Nina? We are friends, but you officially added a wall of nothing to contribute here. SC2 fans aren't in some state of disarray that can only be solved by the realization that a lot of the current players played SC1. SC2 has started it's own branch of history. If they care where the players came from before then that's great. Then someone like you can inform them of the players roots. But right now the focus should be on SC2 fans embracing what is in front of them. Anyone who learns from what I read should just ignore what you wrote. I guess you just meta-ed the thread so everyone could practice talking about things worth discussing instead of topics the lead to terrible threads. And in no way do I mean to disrespect your opinion, but the place for your post isn't here.
People said BW was dying since like a few months after it came out. It's just a quirk of human egocentricity that makes us think because we are losing interest in something, everyone else must be too.
Just worry about yourself :O Not everyone has to be exactly like you—that's what these people need to realise.
There is room for speculation about the prospects of X thing, but you kinda have to separate your personal experience from it. Anecdotal evidence is never really valid, and that's what 'me and all my friends have gotten bored' is. Saying you think X is dying is disrespectful to people who still like it, so maybe consider why your insight is so valuable to other people that you have to be jerk (it probably isn't).
Maybe it's an instinct that we want people to move on with us, do what we're doing etc, but I think the rational part of our brain has to step in and say 'that doesn't apply to total strangers, and probably friends can do both old things and new.'
Coming from someone who detests SC2 as a game and Blizzard as the company it currently is. There is merit in discussing the values of the company and the successes and failures of the game and sustainability of the new ESPORTS model, but there is no merit in expecting people to care about your boredom with something.
So basically I agree, but I think the root of this problem is a little deeper the SC2 community. It think it's a maturity thing and there will always be people who have some growing up to do.
As one of the most prolific supporters of SC2 on the forums, I support BisusDagger in every way. It was such a bummer to watch the SC2 community become infected with these people who just want tear the game down hiding behind the veil of "criticism". The worst part was that some of these people truly thought they were the majority. The endless, pointless threads complaining about nothing at all just got old and slowly smothered things we enjoyed, like State of the Game.
However, it has been uplifting in the last month to see people trying to take the community and discussion back. More and more people are pushing back against the stupid fucking "design" and deathball threads that litter for forums after every event. Its also nice to see the mods flat out banning useless comments like "SC2 is dying". I love SC2 and the people who play it and I am beyond tired of the endless discussions about region locking, BM and other sudo-ethical bullshit like Naniwa's $500 bounty and if its ok or bad mannered. Why can't we just be pumped about them playing and leave it at that?
But in the end, I think cooler heads and people who love the game will win out. BW is BW and needs to be that. SC2 is its own game with its own heroes, styles and players. I will be happy when the last Kespa player who wants to retire does and everyone who wants to play is all-in on SC2.
5/5 would spotlight and tell all my friends to read twice.
Edit: On a side, but related top, people should also listen to Giant Bomb's Patrick Klepek Tedx talk about negativity on the internet and how people and communities should deal with it. Also, his stuff about Phil Phis leaving gaming.
It is amazing how close it comes to a lot of the stuff we saw in SC2 and how there is a destructive undercurrent to the internet at times. It really puts the whole "SC2 is dying" trend in context.
Well said Patrick about the maturity issue since Starcaft 2 seem to be like a age reset on who playing at the highest level ect.. Starcraft 2 also lack a consistent Champion because Starcraft 2 is still evolving since the game itself is only about 4 years old and Starcraft Brood War is about 15 years old. 5/5 blog for you Patrick.
I love the irony that it seems to be the Brood War fans who are the most reasonable about this whole "SC2 is dying" thing.
For the most part I agree with you, and I think everyone needs to just stop being so damn insecure and enjoy the game. We had a great event last weekend, one of the best in months, let's just enjoy it for once. And BlizzCon of all things is in two weeks! The home of the best memory I *have* of SC2 (MMA vs Mvp). I'm pretty hype.
I don't agree that casters are underappreciated though, the great ones get plenty of love (hell, Day9 was serenaded on stage at WCS) and I think it's fair that some are getting a bit more criticism these days.
On October 29 2013 12:04 Plansix wrote: As one of the most prolific supporters of SC2 on the forums, I support BisusDagger in every way. It was such a bummer to watch the SC2 community become infected with these people who just want tear the game down hiding behind the veil of "criticism". The worst part was that some of these people truly thought they were the majority. The endless, pointless threads complaining about nothing at all just got old and slowly smothered things we enjoyed, like State of the Game.
However, it has been uplifting in the last month to see people trying to take the community and discussion back. More and more people are pushing back against the stupid fucking "design" and deathball threads that litter for forums after every event. Its also nice to see the mods flat out banning useless comments like "SC2 is dying". I love SC2 and the people who play it and I am beyond tired of the endless discussions about region locking, BM and other sudo-ethical bullshit like Naniwa's $500 bounty and if its ok or bad mannered. Why can't we just be pumped about them playing and leave it at that?
But in the end, I think cooler heads and people who love the game will win out. BW is BW and needs to be that. SC2 is its own game with its own heroes, styles and players. I will be happy when the last Kespa player who wants to retire does and everyone who wants to play is all-in on SC2.
5/5 would spotlight and tell all my friends to read twice.
I vehemently disagree with you, though. Your optimism and stuff is great, but you're just advocating the polar opposite.
The discussion and design threads are hella important. SC2 is great, yes. But to stick your head in the sand and say it's perfect is just unproductive. If we'd been more open and realized the problems with SC2 back in 2010 and 2011, we might not've landed in Broodlord-Infestorville in 2012 and we might've corrected some of the problems we're still feeling today. Especially since LotV will likely be announced at BlizzCon, it's so dumb to just say that we should take what we're given and not talk about how it could be better.
Because it's still true. The deathball problem still exists, maps are still samey and lack variety, and the economic layout of mining across multiple bases is still flawed. Denying that problems exist is worse than complaining about them. If we don't complain, how will Blizz know where to focus their efforts when they might be willing to do drastic changes for the last expansion?
Well said Bisudagger. I liked your part about the casters...I've had my share of disliked casters (and I know a great deal dislike me) but I'm not a gigantic douche and call the casters out repeatedly. Saying 'hm...I think they got this wrong' or 'I just don't like their tone/voice/game knowledge etc' when asked is a lot different than going into every thread and bashing a caster. And sometimes people do it in threads that aren't even ABOUT casters or games they casted. D:
Also I know you said Nina's post was unnecessary, but I've always questioned the reasons people have for that...aren't there a lot more SC2 tournaments than BW? And a lot of the tournaments are also three-day style, where preparing for an opponent is impossible and your jetlag/stamina is taxed. AND, the availability of replays is so huge compared to BW. And even if it wasn't, thanks to all the tabs we have and the amount of sheer information we get in each casted game, it's real easy to learn a build order just through watching a VOD. idk, just seems like so much more than 'SC2 is patched too often/too volatile of a game' (regardless if you think it's a good or bad thing).
Anyway yeah...enjoy this boom of SC2 love, because after Blizzcon there will be all the pessimism again. T_T
On October 29 2013 12:22 ShiroKaisen wrote: I love the irony that it seems to be the Brood War fans who are the most reasonable about this whole "SC2 is dying" thing.
For the most part I agree with you, and I think everyone needs to just stop being so damn insecure and enjoy the game. We had a great event last weekend, one of the best in months, let's just enjoy it for once. And BlizzCon of all things is in two weeks! The home of the best memory I *have* of SC2 (MMA vs Mvp). I'm pretty hype.
I don't agree that casters are underappreciated though, the great ones get plenty of love (hell, Day9 was serenaded on stage at WCS) and I think it's fair that some are getting a bit more criticism these days.
On October 29 2013 12:04 Plansix wrote: As one of the most prolific supporters of SC2 on the forums, I support BisusDagger in every way. It was such a bummer to watch the SC2 community become infected with these people who just want tear the game down hiding behind the veil of "criticism". The worst part was that some of these people truly thought they were the majority. The endless, pointless threads complaining about nothing at all just got old and slowly smothered things we enjoyed, like State of the Game.
However, it has been uplifting in the last month to see people trying to take the community and discussion back. More and more people are pushing back against the stupid fucking "design" and deathball threads that litter for forums after every event. Its also nice to see the mods flat out banning useless comments like "SC2 is dying". I love SC2 and the people who play it and I am beyond tired of the endless discussions about region locking, BM and other sudo-ethical bullshit like Naniwa's $500 bounty and if its ok or bad mannered. Why can't we just be pumped about them playing and leave it at that?
But in the end, I think cooler heads and people who love the game will win out. BW is BW and needs to be that. SC2 is its own game with its own heroes, styles and players. I will be happy when the last Kespa player who wants to retire does and everyone who wants to play is all-in on SC2.
5/5 would spotlight and tell all my friends to read twice.
I vehemently disagree with you, though. Your optimism and stuff is great, but you're just advocating the polar opposite.
The discussion and design threads are hella important. SC2 is great, yes. But to stick your head in the sand and say it's perfect is just unproductive. If we'd been more open and realized the problems with SC2 back in 2010 and 2011, we might not've landed in Broodlord-Infestorville in 2012 and we might've corrected some of the problems we're still feeling today. Especially since LotV will likely be announced at BlizzCon, it's so dumb to just say that we should take what we're given and not talk about how it could be better.
Because it's still true. The deathball problem still exists, maps are still samey and lack variety, and the economic layout of mining across multiple bases is still flawed. Denying that problems exist is worse than complaining about them. If we don't complain, how will Blizz know where to focus their efforts when they might be willing to do drastic changes for the last expansion?
Beat me to this. I like this blog, but some of the game design threads and such do deserve to be discussed to make the game better. The game can be better and discussing it will help. I have argued a lot about SC2's flaws but its not because I am one of the doomsday guys saying DIE SC2 DIEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I argue and try get my opinion across because I am sad as to where the game is at as I know the potential is there. I think some people mistake this for just pure negativity when really it is more along the lines of a positive debate for change.
I still think the key to helping SC 2 is region lock WCS and let NA get excited for a champion that actually lives in NA. Also I really miss IPL. There nightly team league broadcasts were a lot of fun, not to mention Team Taeja was founded in them. I am sorry to say this, but I don't care if random Korean player X wins. If you want a truly global finals at blizzcon than you need region lock. Because Blizzcon is simply looking like Naniwa vs Korea, and well that is just GSL, not a global finals.
On October 29 2013 09:58 BisuDagger wrote: Sweet, thanks! I didn't know it was on reddit
I must also say that I appreciate your post on caster-bashing. Because the alternative really isn't that much better: Shutting off the stream and providing absolutely no stream for a tournament.
I'm obviously not the best caster, but at the same time, I have to be realistic and quote Nathanias in saying that even he couldn't find a way to do this as a full-time job. And adding to that realism, OSL has been very quiet about who they will be hiring as next season's English casters for SC2. And something else that bothers me is that the regions I am accommodating / specializing in. I won't give any names, but bigger name casters for SC2 in China told me that if I want to be a caster on this side of the planet, then I will have to switch to other games. There hasn't been a single offline event in China for Starcraft 2 since IEM Shanghai and CPL Shenyang (happened about one week after IEM Shanghai, no English stream was available).
LR thread was a lot of fun this weekend except a few times where people got a little mad but that's pretty much expected. Hopefully Blizzcon can be even better, especially when Prime gets a higher placing than anyone from Startale.
On October 29 2013 09:42 BisuDagger wrote: Do you really think BW fans sit around hoping SC2 will die because it hurt SC1? The answer is no. The SC1 community just wants to watch good games and encourage each other. There isn't a secret conclave discussing how to kill SC2.
What's mostly really going on..
Gogobisu: imagine missle turrets can lift off Shinrei123: lol » yeah you should be able to lift turrets » ^_^ Horangnabi: you shouold be able to burrow Horangnabi: hatchery » and ultras Gogobisu: lol Shinrei123: burrow sunkens » and spores Stratosj: burrow turrets, lure in muta, unburrrooooooooooooooow Horangnabi: burrow overlords Gogobisu: turret should be also able to attack groupd unit Shinrei123: burrow mutas Gogobisu: haha Horangnabi: you burrow overlord Gogobisu: lawl Horangnabi: then when marine walks over » you unborrow » and they get tossed into the air Jilju: lol Stratosj: rofl Shinrei123: perfect idea Horangnabi: marine is like "wheeee" Stratosj: that's what sc2 should've been all about Horangnabi: tossing marines in the air?? Gogobisu: should have.... » T_T + Show Spoiler +
Horangnabi: they kinda have that i guess » the bubble corsairs + Show Spoiler +
I love esports and being russian i wanna see my comrads win. There is a lack of representation in sc2 so i seem to drift away from the sc2 scene. I think country or region qualifiers are the simplest answerr but we all know what happened to that.
I cant force myself to like something because i feel sorry for it, its harsh but its the truth. Now i dont say that the game is becoming less popular but i dont seem to watch as much as i used to. ( i have every monthly season of gsl on gom tv bought and i watched every matchand interview and loved it. )
I feel usually too many occurrences of threads with overblown words about passion, verge of greatness. amazing potential and all that are the things that signal the downward spiral of a game more than any whine thread.
Real boats rock and nothing runs perfect, but it's no big deal as long as people genuinely care about the game. A healthy community has people who whine and debate about stuff and they still love the game despite the flaws. Yesterday in an interview Loda listed a dozen things he doesn't like in the new Dota 2 patch and yet the interview still left an impression he was quite happy and optimistic with the patch and how games were going.
A healthy community usually goes "Ok, that had some really nice stuff in it, some other stuff I didn't like. How are we going to make the good stuff better and work around the bad stuff next time?" It doesn't feel forced or need anyone asking for passion with promises of future glory.
What I like about the OP is that there's actually some parts looking for ways to make to make SC2 an actually more interesting place. Have your already passionate people analyse the games and have them point out the good AND the bad stuff and the stuff they're unsure. Help people to actually understand the awesome stuff rather than just blurting out "OMG SO GOOD, PERFECT THIS PERFECT THAT!".
On October 29 2013 14:32 Shellshock wrote: LR thread was a lot of fun this weekend except a few times where people got a little mad but that's pretty much expected. Hopefully Blizzcon can be even better, especially when Prime gets a higher placing than anyone from Startale.
This is what a healthy community sounds to me. Obviously it takes more than a paragraph to do considerable contributions, but the tone is right and doesn't feel awfully forced.
I guess the long story short is that you can't tell people to love a game or community. Meanwhile you can help them to learn to love it by highlighting, explaining and generating more of the things you love in it. I don't care about Bisu retiring half as much if you can somehow make me love Dear or Maru or something.
I think we are upset about the fact that SC2 used to be number 1 across e-sport title and now we are number 3. I think SC2 is moving away from personal streaming (I see sc2 pros with 2000 viewers max most of the time) and focusing more on tournament streams.
To me, watching BW was fuel for my inner fire. I tried to substitute it with SC2 but it just wouldn't satisfy the hunger... the desire, in me. I'm talking about how I would speed home from work to catch a proleague game, or ordering take out before a quarterfinal OSL match (that eehan timing).
But believe me, I enjoyed playing SC2 during WoL days simply because it was much easier to play mechanically (I barely played actual BW).
I ask myself, do I enjoy watching e-sports because of the mechanical factor? What was the actual fuel that fed my inner fire?
The answer lied in one simple word: Micro. I just love watching epic micro, that was it.
I hate that everyone has to leave positive comments, be constructive, support this or that or else.. else what? I don't see football, basketball or whatnot doing that. This kind of crap gets annoying, very fast. IF something is good, people will talk positively about it. If not, they won't. Stop enforcing something, that goes out to casters, too.
As for casters, their job may be hard but it's a lot more stable than that of a progamer. Progamers work hard and might get kicked out of a tournament when they have a shitty day or get unlucky, casters have it a bit easier there. Again, your last sentence in that part if pretentious.
The whole SC2 community takes itself too serious. ESPORTS 4 LAIF yo! Do this, do that, like this, do all kinds of crap for us so that a few "pillars" can earn shitloads of money. Yeah.. um.. thanks but no thanks. Somehow the Dota2 community is more relaxed and weirdly also growing rapidly.. how come? Could that have anything to do with what I said before?
In the whole SC2 community I have the utmost respect for very few people. The likes of TB or 2GD (though he isn't that much involved with SC2 anymore) because they don't just keep taking from the community or act like we should be thankful to them all the time for them doing their job. They give back. TB is running a team and 2GD is giving much of his money away to support others.
Those are the people who deserve respect. Not the Day9s or Tastosis.
I've just lost interested since this whole wcs thing. I was a huge sc2 supporter and I watched every gsl up until wcs season 2 and now I can't get back into it I think apart of this is the negativity on sc2 forums when I do check in from time to time.
On October 30 2013 00:08 zdfgucker wrote: I hate that everyone has to leave positive comments, be constructive, support this or that or else.. else what? I don't see football, basketball or whatnot doing that. This kind of crap gets annoying, very fast. IF something is good, people will talk positively about it. If not, they won't. Stop enforcing something, that goes out to casters, too.
As for casters, their job may be hard but it's a lot more stable than that of a progamer. Progamers work hard and might get kicked out of a tournament when they have a shitty day or get unlucky, casters have it a bit easier there. Again, your last sentence in that part if pretentious.
The whole SC2 community takes itself too serious. ESPORTS 4 LAIF yo! Do this, do that, like this, do all kinds of crap for us so that a few "pillars" can earn shitloads of money. Yeah.. um.. thanks but no thanks. Somehow the Dota2 community is more relaxed and weirdly also growing rapidly.. how come? Could that have anything to do with what I said before?
In the whole SC2 community I have the utmost respect for very few people. The likes of TB or 2GD (though he isn't that much involved with SC2 anymore) because they don't just keep taking from the community or act like we should be thankful to them all the time for them doing their job. They give back. TB is running a team and 2GD is giving much of his money away to support others.
Those are the people who deserve respect. Not the Day9s or Tastosis.
TB has a professional team, how much more involved does he need to be? He has not stepped away at all. And sorry that people want to encourage positive support of SC2. But this is a site for fans of SC2, you can't expect everyone to be really pumped that you don't want to respect community figures or are just negative because you want to be.
On October 30 2013 00:08 zdfgucker wrote: I hate that everyone has to leave positive comments, be constructive, support this or that or else.. else what? I don't see football, basketball or whatnot doing that. This kind of crap gets annoying, very fast. IF something is good, people will talk positively about it. If not, they won't. Stop enforcing something, that goes out to casters, too.
As for casters, their job may be hard but it's a lot more stable than that of a progamer. Progamers work hard and might get kicked out of a tournament when they have a shitty day or get unlucky, casters have it a bit easier there. Again, your last sentence in that part if pretentious.
The whole SC2 community takes itself too serious. ESPORTS 4 LAIF yo! Do this, do that, like this, do all kinds of crap for us so that a few "pillars" can earn shitloads of money. Yeah.. um.. thanks but no thanks. Somehow the Dota2 community is more relaxed and weirdly also growing rapidly.. how come? Could that have anything to do with what I said before?
In the whole SC2 community I have the utmost respect for very few people. The likes of TB or 2GD (though he isn't that much involved with SC2 anymore) because they don't just keep taking from the community or act like we should be thankful to them all the time for them doing their job. They give back. TB is running a team and 2GD is giving much of his money away to support others.
Those are the people who deserve respect. Not the Day9s or Tastosis.
TB has a professional team, how much more involved does he need to be? He has not stepped away at all.
The spoiled entertainment goes into incredible details of what I'm about to write. So if you don't have much time, read this post. If you want to be enlightened to a greater magnitude, y'know what to do. + Show Spoiler +
I hope I'm not the only guy saying this but you can't have a constructive discussion regarding the SC2 scene while being positive. If the game is good enough, then there would be hardly any complaint from anyone except for newbies as people would be too busy enjoying playing the game instead.
The community, instead of forcing being positive regarding the scene should be more realistic in their posts. If you don't like what you are seeing, don't be like "Oh welp, I guess I have to close my eyes and be positive about it!" No you should actually go out there and write a cogent and constructive criticism on the subject. However, you can't avoid being negative in a critics so being negative is absolutely necessary for the growth any industry.
You should never "be positive" for the sake positivity. That's how major mistakes occurs in real life such as not taking exigent action toward wrongdoings. Call things the way you see it. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion because it will "hurt" the scene. Personally even though Sonic is the messiah for BW scene atm, I'm not afraid to judge his team dynamics in the next upcoming SPL.
Its tough love and that's the reality. Think about it like this, this electronic sport scene is like a child and the driving force behind the child is the community and developer. Now there will be some child who are willing hard to admit their mistakes and work hard toward improvement while others would spend the majority of their time enjoying their leisure time while being spoiled with rainbows and compliments. Eventually the former one would become incredible successful while the latter end up underachieving. Same thing applied in SC2 as the community/developer should be HARSH toward the game so that it may succeed in LONG run. If you see your kid smoking/drinking incessantly, it is your DUTY to chastise it so that it may grow up healthy.
Fake positivism is the absolutely worst one can perform in attempt to improve.
On October 30 2013 00:08 zdfgucker wrote: I hate that everyone has to leave positive comments, be constructive, support this or that or else.. else what? I don't see football, basketball or whatnot doing that. This kind of crap gets annoying, very fast. IF something is good, people will talk positively about it. If not, they won't. Stop enforcing something, that goes out to casters, too.
As for casters, their job may be hard but it's a lot more stable than that of a progamer. Progamers work hard and might get kicked out of a tournament when they have a shitty day or get unlucky, casters have it a bit easier there. Again, your last sentence in that part if pretentious.
The whole SC2 community takes itself too serious. ESPORTS 4 LAIF yo! Do this, do that, like this, do all kinds of crap for us so that a few "pillars" can earn shitloads of money. Yeah.. um.. thanks but no thanks. Somehow the Dota2 community is more relaxed and weirdly also growing rapidly.. how come? Could that have anything to do with what I said before?
In the whole SC2 community I have the utmost respect for very few people. The likes of TB or 2GD (though he isn't that much involved with SC2 anymore) because they don't just keep taking from the community or act like we should be thankful to them all the time for them doing their job. They give back. TB is running a team and 2GD is giving much of his money away to support others.
Those are the people who deserve respect. Not the Day9s or Tastosis.
No one here can convince you to change your attitude and nor should we try. The point is, if you are angry about something SC2 related try being proactive about it. Using the example that people are negatively elsewhere as an excuse to act negatively yourself isn’t something that I live by. I believe our actions are our own and should be influenced from within and what we believe is right. I don’t believe everyone is required to be angels in the forums. But I believe we are capable of eliminating a lot of the unnecessary anger that rubs off on everyone else. I enjoy watching soccer. But if my friend came over to watch with me every day and talked about how miserable the game was while I was watching it, I would not want to watch it all together because he is making how I experience the game worse. So in this time more and more friends start to come over and watch the games. But I still have this one guy in the room saying how awful soccer is to watch. Now he’s bothering everyone at once and no one wants to come over because someone keeps telling them that they shouldn’t be enjoying what they watch. Let me re-emphasize this is what I believe. I respect your opinion even if I disagree with it. But I won’t waste energy trying to change your mind. My only hope is that you took the time to understand my feelings too.
On October 30 2013 00:39 Xiphos wrote: The spoiled entertainment goes into incredible details of what I'm about to write. So if you don't have much time, read this post. If you want to be enlightened to a greater magnitude, y'know what to do. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U60dUB1oRt8
I hope I'm not the only guy saying this but you can't have a constructive discussion regarding the SC2 scene while being positive. If the game is good enough, then there would be hardly any complaint from anyone except for newbies as people would be too busy enjoying playing the game instead.
The community, instead of forcing being positive regarding the scene should be more realistic in their posts. If you don't like what you are seeing, don't be like "Oh welp, I guess I have to close my eyes and be positive about it!" No you should actually go out there and write a cogent and constructive criticism on the subject. However, you can't avoid being negative in a critics so being negative is absolutely necessary for the growth any industry.
You should never "be positive" for the sake positivity. That's how major mistakes occurs in real life such as not taking exigent action toward wrongdoings. Call things the way you see it. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion because it will "hurt" the scene. Personally even though Sonic is the messiah for BW scene atm, I'm not afraid to judge his team dynamics in the next upcoming SPL.
Its tough love and that's the reality. Think about it like this, this electronic sport scene is like a child and the driving force behind the child is the community and developer. Now there will be some child who are willing hard to admit their mistakes and work hard toward improvement while others would spend the majority of their time enjoying their leisure time while being spoiled with rainbows and compliments. Eventually the former one would become incredible successful while the latter end up underachieving. Same thing applied in SC2 as the community/developer should be HARSH toward the game so that it may succeed in LONG run. If you see your kid smoking/drinking incessantly, it is your DUTY to chastise it so that it may grow up healthy.
Fake positivism is the absolutely worst one can perform in attempt to improve.
Taking BW Elitism mask off for a second (because this is what I actually believe in, not 'bury sc2' personality that I usually put on in irc/livestreams),
Calling things the way people see it isn't the problem. The problem is what people do with this information.
Someone can post why X is not good, and list out the reasons. The community then can either learn to accept that why something's not good and improve upon it, or just continue saying 'oh it's dead'.
It's fine pointing out things that need improvement and things that need to be fixed. People can choose to think positively and improve upon those subjects, or choose to say 'it's dead' which actually leads to its death because people did not choose to fix those mistakes.
That being said, a game is dead when nobody watches it. SC2 is far away from that.
He isn't talking about fake positivism at all or saying that constructive criticism is bad. He is talking about mindless negativism and trolls that have dominated the discussion for the last few months.
On October 30 2013 00:39 Xiphos wrote: The spoiled entertainment goes into incredible details of what I'm about to write. So if you don't have much time, read this post. If you want to be enlightened to a greater magnitude, y'know what to do. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U60dUB1oRt8
I hope I'm not the only guy saying this but you can't have a constructive discussion regarding the SC2 scene while being positive. If the game is good enough, then there would be hardly any complaint from anyone except for newbies as people would be too busy enjoying playing the game instead.
The community, instead of forcing being positive regarding the scene should be more realistic in their posts. If you don't like what you are seeing, don't be like "Oh welp, I guess I have to close my eyes and be positive about it!" No you should actually go out there and write a cogent and constructive criticism on the subject. However, you can't avoid being negative in a critics so being negative is absolutely necessary for the growth any industry.
You should never "be positive" for the sake positivity. That's how major mistakes occurs in real life such as not taking exigent action toward wrongdoings. Call things the way you see it. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion because it will "hurt" the scene. Personally even though Sonic is the messiah for BW scene atm, I'm not afraid to judge his team dynamics in the next upcoming SPL.
Its tough love and that's the reality. Think about it like this, this electronic sport scene is like a child and the driving force behind the child is the community and developer. Now there will be some child who are willing hard to admit their mistakes and work hard toward improvement while others would spend the majority of their time enjoying their leisure time while being spoiled with rainbows and compliments. Eventually the former one would become incredible successful while the latter end up underachieving. Same thing applied in SC2 as the community/developer should be HARSH toward the game so that it may succeed in LONG run. If you see your kid smoking/drinking incessantly, it is your DUTY to chastise it so that it may grow up healthy.
Fake positivism is the absolutely worst one can perform in attempt to improve.
I don’t feel like a gave off the idea we should have false positivity. There is blatant negativity and then there is constructive criticism. The first one is what I was addressing. I think there is a great need for discussing the flaws in SC2. However LR threads may not be the best place for that. I’m more exhausted by people trying to ruin the tournament experience. People legit enjoy the game for what it is and have no past experience with competitive gaming. Why do we have to use every tournament thread as an opportunity to convert more happy viewers into people who should be fighting for a cause to make blizzard better. Here’s the deal. The casual viewer experience is horrible right now because of the proactive negativity posters in all the LRs. This needs to be removed so that way the casual fans can be really hooked in on what is on screen. This allows the fans to become more hooked and those that become the hardcore fans can start getting involved and venture to other threads. There they can find a realm of criticism and discussion on how to improve their experience more. I think you have the right mentality but it is misplaced by the message I’m trying to send to everyone.
Blizzard is still injecting money in to the scene sc2 is not really that dead yet in my opinion other than that I agree most of the post that Bisu Dagger posted about mostly about the bw pros returning back naturally to where they have come from. It's like a home beacon that is calling the pros to move on with their life if the game isn't what their passion really is and play the game that really ignited their spirit and their passion.
The one thing that is decreasing my enjoyment of sc2 the most (by a wide margin) is people that is shitting all over the game, the players, the casters, the formats, the tournaments, EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE.
That said, I don't mind constructive discussion etc, but keep it in its place, please, so that I can ignore it when I want to.
If you are not/can not be critical about the game, both the game and its community will never further itself for the better. Indeed, the truly worse situation was if everyone was a yes-man and just accepted whatever Blizzard shoved down our throats. Think about what the game, and the community, would be like if we never spoke up about 5rax reaper, chat channels, various dumb hots units like warhounds, shredders, medivac superheal, and of course community things like the papa johns, esports documentary "scandals", and even the current discussions about the failures of the WCS system. These have all spawned highly negative debates, but they all are trying to lead to positive outcomes.
Yes, "SC2 dying" is hyperbole, there are obvious posters who are just trolling with the statement, but I would argue that the majority of these posts (here on TL) do actually care about the game, but are not quite as eloquent with their words. Its only more prevalent now because all of these pros leaving the scene because they don't like the game anymore for whatever reasons. That is a fact you cannot ignore. And we'd be worse off as a community and for the game if people choose to ignore these facts.
On October 30 2013 01:59 a176 wrote: If you are not/can not be critical about the game, both the game and its community will never further itself for the better. Indeed, the truly worse situation was if everyone was a yes-man and just accepted whatever Blizzard shoved down our throats. Think about what the game, and the community, would be like if we never spoke up about 5rax reaper, chat channels, various dumb hots units like warhounds, shredders, medivac superheal, and of course community things like the papa johns, esports documentary "scandals", and even the current discussions about the failures of the WCS system. These have all spawned highly negative debates, but they all are trying to lead to positive outcomes.
I feel like this portion of your statement got off topic from the message I was try send. It is your opinion that not having 5 rax reaper is a good thing or that warhounds were dumb units. I know plenty of people who disagree with you and feel like blizzard made mistakes on how they handled correcting these issues. But this blog is not to debate your opinions on balance issues and scandals which is all it really is.
Yes, "SC2 dying" is hyperbole, there are obvious posters who are just trolling with the statement, but I would argue that the majority of these posts (here on TL) do actually care about the game, but are not quite as eloquent with their words. Its only more prevalent now because all of these pros leaving the scene because they don't like the game anymore for whatever reasons. That is a fact you cannot ignore. And we'd be worse off as a community and for the game if people choose to ignore these facts.
How is “SC2 is dying” a fact that we cannot ignore? You do not give any examples of facts worth paying attention too. The inability for someone to make a complete thought therefore they write some form of “Sc2 is dying” is not an excuse. The human body is capable of composing itself long enough for a complete thought and then translating it into a readable sentence online. I don’t believe in cutting people slack for being lazy posters.
Also, I already addressed the pros that are leaving in the OP. It isn't "for whatever reason", we know why many of them left.
Host more premium events in Toronto, Canada Me and the Toronto crowd for season 3 finals single handedly saved eSports this weekend
On a more serious note, great blog, will recommend to friends and family. I honest dislike LoL, but spend no time b*tching about its popularity and how it's going to kill sc2. There's so much b*tching and moaning about every little issue, yet no one seems willing to actually do something about it, it's nice you're taking the initiative. SC2 has a bright future ahead of it imo.
On October 30 2013 01:59 a176 wrote: If you are not/can not be critical about the game, both the game and its community will never further itself for the better. Indeed, the truly worse situation was if everyone was a yes-man and just accepted whatever Blizzard shoved down our throats. Think about what the game, and the community, would be like if we never spoke up about 5rax reaper, chat channels, various dumb hots units like warhounds, shredders, medivac superheal, and of course community things like the papa johns, esports documentary "scandals", and even the current discussions about the failures of the WCS system. These have all spawned highly negative debates, but they all are trying to lead to positive outcomes.
I feel like this portion of your statement got off topic from the message I was try send. It is your opinion that not having 5 rax reaper is a good thing or that warhounds were dumb units. I know plenty of people who disagree with you and feel like blizzard made mistakes on how they handled correcting these issues. But this blog is not to debate your opinions on balance issues and scandals which is all it really is.
Yes, "SC2 dying" is hyperbole, there are obvious posters who are just trolling with the statement, but I would argue that the majority of these posts (here on TL) do actually care about the game, but are not quite as eloquent with their words. Its only more prevalent now because all of these pros leaving the scene because they don't like the game anymore for whatever reasons. That is a fact you cannot ignore. And we'd be worse off as a community and for the game if people choose to ignore these facts.
How is “SC2 is dying” a fact that we cannot ignore? You do not give any examples of facts worth paying attention too. The inability for someone to make a complete thought therefore they write some form of “Sc2 is dying” is not an excuse. The human body is capable of composing itself long enough for a complete thought and then translating it into a readable sentence online. I don’t believe in cutting people slack for being lazy posters.
Also, I already addressed the pros that are leaving in the OP. It isn't "for whatever reason", we know why many of them left.
The point is people talking about the state of the game, whether you choose to talk about units and balance, or the overall appeal, longevity, life of the game, is not a bad thing and that you shouldn't discourage it. People saying how the game is "dying" are showing concern for the game. Both you and I have been around long enough to know its exactly what happened with a spate of retirements, sponsorship issues, and match fixing scandal during the last little bit of professional BW; people being concerned about BW "dying". SC2 is just going through its own similar set of misgivings.
On October 30 2013 00:39 Xiphos wrote: The spoiled entertainment goes into incredible details of what I'm about to write. So if you don't have much time, read this post. If you want to be enlightened to a greater magnitude, y'know what to do. + Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U60dUB1oRt8
I hope I'm not the only guy saying this but you can't have a constructive discussion regarding the SC2 scene while being positive. If the game is good enough, then there would be hardly any complaint from anyone except for newbies as people would be too busy enjoying playing the game instead.
The community, instead of forcing being positive regarding the scene should be more realistic in their posts. If you don't like what you are seeing, don't be like "Oh welp, I guess I have to close my eyes and be positive about it!" No you should actually go out there and write a cogent and constructive criticism on the subject. However, you can't avoid being negative in a critics so being negative is absolutely necessary for the growth any industry.
You should never "be positive" for the sake positivity. That's how major mistakes occurs in real life such as not taking exigent action toward wrongdoings. Call things the way you see it. Don't be afraid to voice your opinion because it will "hurt" the scene. Personally even though Sonic is the messiah for BW scene atm, I'm not afraid to judge his team dynamics in the next upcoming SPL.
Its tough love and that's the reality. Think about it like this, this electronic sport scene is like a child and the driving force behind the child is the community and developer. Now there will be some child who are willing hard to admit their mistakes and work hard toward improvement while others would spend the majority of their time enjoying their leisure time while being spoiled with rainbows and compliments. Eventually the former one would become incredible successful while the latter end up underachieving. Same thing applied in SC2 as the community/developer should be HARSH toward the game so that it may succeed in LONG run. If you see your kid smoking/drinking incessantly, it is your DUTY to chastise it so that it may grow up healthy.
Fake positivism is the absolutely worst one can perform in attempt to improve.
I don’t feel like a gave off the idea we should have false positivity. There is blatant negativity and then there is constructive criticism. The first one is what I was addressing. I think there is a great need for discussing the flaws in SC2. However LR threads may not be the best place for that. I’m more exhausted by people trying to ruin the tournament experience. People legit enjoy the game for what it is and have no past experience with competitive gaming. Why do we have to use every tournament thread as an opportunity to convert more happy viewers into people who should be fighting for a cause to make blizzard better. Here’s the deal. The casual viewer experience is horrible right now because of the proactive negativity posters in all the LRs. This needs to be removed so that way the casual fans can be really hooked in on what is on screen. This allows the fans to become more hooked and those that become the hardcore fans can start getting involved and venture to other threads. There they can find a realm of criticism and discussion on how to improve their experience more. I think you have the right mentality but it is misplaced by the message I’m trying to send to everyone.
Then you are running the risk of generalization. In every single community, there will be ones posting similar one-liner troll message like "dead game", "u mad bro?" to troll bait, then it is up for the mod to cleanse it. So no matter how hard you tried to make it positive, this case will always prevalent among us. Most newcomers come from an internet forum background so they will most definitely have experience in phasing out those trolls.
And here is something that is not particularly agreeable with. In LR thread, yes they should be relevant to the tournament of it but however if casters/commentators make mistake in their job, then you should absolutely criticize them. It is even MORE detrimental to newcomers to hear wrong play calls by professional castors as they will go laddering and utilize those wrong strategical insight in their own games.
In terms of LR positivity, there should actually be more "trashtalking" between fans in order to cement the "sport" image of the game. All the physical sport grew because of that passion between fans. Newcomers will come in and think "Wow these guys are really passionate about their favorites, this reminds me of NHL rivalry between X and Y.". You said it yourself of having rivalries. This will captivate them. You shouldn't exactly force people to have their face glued on screen. Now THAT is off putting the mood of newcomers for you to dictate. Instead what you should be encouraging newcomers to express as much passion as possible. Don't hold back on anything.
the esports scene in sc2 isnt dying, its on a decline but i dont see it dying. the competitive levels going on in sc2 and the players and casters make sc2 esports great.
the game itself is dying, you dont see many people on the chats and the custom game/arcade area is really dead and have no new innovations compared to the past. back then in war3 you had those silly bots and you could chat with people for hours on end, nobody does that on sc2 anymore, theres no sense of community in the sc2 game area itself.
Sure you can argue you go there to play but thats not what people do. i dont even log in much to sc2 anymore and after 1 or 2 ladder games i immediately log out. it wasnt like this in the past.
ignoring the issue will not make it go away. you cant clap your hands and believe away cancer
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
Hey there, I'm pretty pleased with sc2 and not making up weird anectodal evidence that's SC2 is dying.
On October 30 2013 08:08 Kingsky wrote: ignoring the issue will not make it go away. you cant clap your hands and believe away cancer
Well, if SC2 is "dying", it would be through entropy, not a terminal illness. But that's the way everything dies eventually anyhow. I think going "SC2 IS DYING OF AIDS AND CANCER" is just way too extreme and pointless to actually make any sort of difference. But let's say SC2 has cancer and is going to die. What good is it going to do to point this out? Sure, it happens in the retirement threads and if there any problems with the tournaments, it's like a lighting strike scattering a herd. They'll all lose their minds and say the game is dying. So. Yeah.
On October 29 2013 10:38 ninazerg wrote: Almost every top gamer in SC2 played for a Kespa team at one point. SC2 fans always pretend like Kespa never made an impact on the SC2 scene, and quietly act like Bogus never existed. In fact, every top 10 player list is all players who played either BroodWar or WarCraft 3. There is no consistent champion in SC2, because unlike BW or WC3, SC2 is constantly changing drastically, so that the changes affect very fundamental elements of gameplay. That, in my opinion, is one of the main problems with SC2.
What does you're post accomplish Nina? We are friends, but you officially added a wall of nothing to contribute here. SC2 fans aren't in some state of disarray that can only be solved by the realization that a lot of the current players played SC1. SC2 has started it's own branch of history. If they care where the players came from before then that's great. Then someone like you can inform them of the players roots. But right now the focus should be on SC2 fans embracing what is in front of them. Anyone who learns from what I read should just ignore what you wrote. I guess you just meta-ed the thread so everyone could practice talking about things worth discussing instead of topics the lead to terrible threads. And in no way do I mean to disrespect your opinion, but the place for your post isn't here.
You wanna fight me, bro? Come to my city if you've got the balls and we can settle this in the streets. You will be limited to one blade weapon, no firearms are allowed. Additionally, no kicks, knees, or elbows. No pepperspray, tasers, or blunt-object weapons will be allowed. The blade of your weapon cannot exceed six inches in length, and must be made of metal; no glass. You may not coat your weapon in poison. You may not stab someone if they are not looking at you while you are stabbing them, except if they are on the ground and you use the stab as your finishing move. No stabbing or slashing to the genitals is allowed. The duel will only begin once both participants have squared off and have presented their weapon.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
I'm happy with sc2. or do you think I'm some sort of masochist?
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
I'm happy with sc2. or do you think I'm some sort of masochist?
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
I'm happy with sc2. or do you think I'm some sort of masochist?
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
there have been really really good productive threads stating about design changes in regards to social interaction in the game itself. we cant change or mod the freaking sc2 because blizzard.
so yeah, we tried and failed so you want us to just ignore it and pretend its all fine?
kinda like the QE in japan right? If something doesnt work do we try harder or do we try something else.
Now your just advocating trying something else. (Which is pretend it doesnt exist? that is dumb)
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
Yet that quote was the spark that fueled it all. Guessing that some people just never truly grasp the causality of events. You just have to be careful with the sensitive ones.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
Yet that quote was the spark that fueled it all. Guessing that some people just never truly grasp the causality of events. You just have to be careful with the sensitive ones.
My post started it all though so all you noobs are just subject to my genius
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
Yet that quote was the spark that fueled it all. Guessing that some people just never truly grasp the causality of events. You just have to be careful with the sensitive ones.
My post started it all though so all you noobs are just subject to my genius
Or the one that philosophically contradicted your post and thus flip the position of the keyword "noobs" and "genius" from the above statement.
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
Yet that quote was the spark that fueled it all. Guessing that some people just never truly grasp the causality of events. You just have to be careful with the sensitive ones.
My post started it all though so all you noobs are just subject to my genius
Or the one that philosophically contradicted your post and thus flip the position of the keyword "noobs" and "genius" from the above statement.
Naw, I am pretty sure we are noobs and Lictor is the genius. Best to learn you place in the world quickly.
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
Yet that quote was the spark that fueled it all. Guessing that some people just never truly grasp the causality of events. You just have to be careful with the sensitive ones.
My post started it all though so all you noobs are just subject to my genius
Or the one that philosophically contradicted your post and thus flip the position of the keyword "noobs" and "genius" from the above statement.
Naw, I am pretty sure we are noobs and Lictor is the genius. Best to learn you place in the world quickly.
If being a noob is all you aspire to be, then carry on.
On October 30 2013 22:44 Plansix wrote: [quote] And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
Yet that quote was the spark that fueled it all. Guessing that some people just never truly grasp the causality of events. You just have to be careful with the sensitive ones.
My post started it all though so all you noobs are just subject to my genius
Or the one that philosophically contradicted your post and thus flip the position of the keyword "noobs" and "genius" from the above statement.
Naw, I am pretty sure we are noobs and Lictor is the genius. Best to learn you place in the world quickly.
If being a noob is all you aspire to be, then carry on.
Look son, you just need to accept Lictor's greatness and move on. Acceptance is the first part of learning.
On October 30 2013 08:51 lichter wrote: I don't think people really understand the OP
There is a big difference between mindless positivism and what he espouses. There is also a big difference between constructive criticism and unproductive negativism.
Sometimes I feel like NovstOrm and I are the only people almost entirely happy with SC2
True, there is also flogging the skeleton of a dead horse over and over again - see design threads. How often do we really need to know about deathballs and warpgate and protoss etc? Ad infinitum ad nauseum about begins to describe it.
There is also the mistake of confusing SC2 positivity with mindless positivity. I don't believe this is often the case. It is quite possible to recognise the faults of the game and either accept them and/or not believe these to be crippling faults while still appreciative of the game. It is also possible to believe that SC2 is just a fantastic game, and that is fine too.
Great OP, BisuDagger!
"Some aspires greatness, other are merely satisfied with being decent enough."
And some people cite meaningless quotes to be negatitive for the sake of doing so.
To quit Naz'Gul: If you don't like SC2, just leave. No one is forcing you to be here.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
The main problem with so many design threads is that they are often a personal vision for the game that sets an implausibly high standard (a near utopian vision of SC2) and then projects it on to everybody else (by this last I mean that agreement is assumed as to where "the problems" lie, and after that agreement as to the solution to these problems). If people do not agree, it is because they need to be "saved" or are misguided. Neither are necessarily true.
When it comes to purported design changes, the key factor to keep in mind is that generally no-one really knows the effect of many design changes to the game. This is because SC2 is a complex and intricate game where even minor changes have far reaching impact. Therefore, caution is advised when it comes to substantive design changes as is often proposed. This is not even to factor in the implementation of said ideas and if these are even possible either in terms of the root capabilities of SC2 or the resources that may need to be expended even if the changes are possible.
(When you also take into account the public face of SC2 as an E-sport and where people's livelihoods are at stake, you become aware of the fact that caution is the better part of valour when it comes to substantive changes to the game.)
The issue then is what changes are possible given the sunk costs of SC2, not just in terms of its status as a game, but in terms of its path development in terms of design. Given these constraints, innumerable design threads that paint a picture of SC2 as achieving its "true" potential only if just these suggestions were taken on board bore me to tears. I am far more interested in ideas that are realistically possible and implementable. These are usually minor design tweaks that are possible while also probably having a deep effect on the game, and cosmetic/UI changes.
I think SC2 is a very good game. Players may make the game even better if left alone to develop the game as far as it can be developed. As someone who has been part of the community since late 2010/early 2011, I think that point is still quite a way away. The game has grown so much since the early days (despite its limitations and despite the mistakes Blizzard made along the way) Will it be a great game? I don't know. I hope so. But, I do believe that should this happen, it is more likely to be a matter of time and from within the embedded framework of SC2 as it is, rather than the implementation of sweeping design changes as proposed by random members of a contradictory community all chasing their own personal vision of the "perfect" game. As the saying goes, the perfect is the enemy of the good.
TL still covers BW yo. And blogs is supposed to be a neutral place.
Anyway my turn for useless quotes!
"I like lemons you like oranges"
I know Lictor and I wasn't addressing BW fans. I think they are great and it's awesome thy still love the game. It's the people taking cheap shots like "some people are happy with substandard games". It's weak shit and just made to troll.
Although that was not the point of the quote...
Some people are happy with SC2 as it is now, but some people want more from the game. Either because they don't like some aspects of it, or because they see potential in it - or both for that matter.
There are a lot of things about SC2 that I don't like. There are also a lot of things I like a lot. If I focus solely on the things I like and ignore the things I don't like, I may enjoy the game more, but I also wont bring anything worthwile to discussions. If I focus solely on the things I don't like, I will have a lot to discuss, and possibly good suggestions for change, but I will also be overly negative towards the things that are actually good. You need to see both sides of the game to be constructive and contribute to a good discussion.
Example: I think SC2 works really well as a competetive game, but its not very interesting to spectate. I would like it if the game rewarded different playstyles that I would like to see more. This is a topic for another thread, but the point is that I need to not ignore the things I think are good - the competetive and skill rewarding aspects - nor the things I think should change - skill and strategy being obscured from spectating by game mechanics.
That is great l, but you notice that you took two to three paragraphs to flesh out your ideas and did so in a thoughtful manner. That is far superior to a passive aggressive one sentence quote.
Yet that quote was the spark that fueled it all. Guessing that some people just never truly grasp the causality of events. You just have to be careful with the sensitive ones.
My post started it all though so all you noobs are just subject to my genius
Or the one that philosophically contradicted your post and thus flip the position of the keyword "noobs" and "genius" from the above statement.
Naw, I am pretty sure we are noobs and Lictor is the genius. Best to learn you place in the world quickly.
If being a noob is all you aspire to be, then carry on.
Look son, you just need to accept Lictor's greatness and move on. Acceptance is the first part of learning.
First part of learning is yearning to improve yourself not accepting complacency. No wonder "mum" left ya for that lawyer, "dad".
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/q7GlQcT.png)
I think apart of this is the negativity on sc2 forums when I do check in from time to time. 
