StarCraft came out in 1998, and it would later on be the reason for the existence of TeamLiquid, and an esports scene we love. But I didn't get on it, totally missed the train, because that year I was playing other games.
This takes us quite back in time, but in 1997 I was a huge Warcraft 2 fan. I had been playing the first Warcraft a bit, but the second was the one to really hook me and make me love the Real-time Strategy Genre. It was all about playing the campaign or games against the AI at a time where I didn't have Internet, but it was amazing, and I had spent countless hours on the game and its "Beyond The Dark Portal" expansion. During that year, the hype was strong about Blizzard's upcoming RTS, StarCraft. There were ads in game magazines, we didn't have much information, but it was a Blizzard RTS in a sci-fi setting and I was really excited for it. The only problem was that in 1997, the game was not coming out. Blizzard were having some development hiccups and overhauled the project, delaying the release of this game I was anticipating so much. And when I managed to get my hands on 2 other RTS, I ended up spending an insane amount of time on them and eventually forgot about StarCraft.
War Wind
The first game was War Wind, released in 1996. It featured 4 distinct races with very different gameplays and feelings to them. The art style of the game was also very similar to StarCraft making it the perfect substitute. The things that I liked most about the game were that the races were actually more asymmetric in their gameplay than pretty much any game at the time, and you could upgrade units to enhance their abilities. All in all, that game was good, and I spent a lot of time playing it, but it has been forgotten in the trail of StarCraft (though it got a sequel that I have never played)
Z
While I liked War Wind a lot, I have to admit that my drug at the time was this game : Z
Z was a RTS with a fantastic concept that didn't involve resource collection. The map had zones that you could control by sending an infantry unit to its flag. Controlling a zone allowed you to use its facilities, such as factories that build units. Building a unit takes some time, depending on the number of zones you control. But the most vicious feature to be in this game, which made it the most fun was that a unit construction was not cancelled or reset when a zone is captured. When a player is 3 seconds away from getting a very powerful tank unit, and he sees a simple infantry unit coming in to capture the flag, and then witnesses the tank coming out of the factory with his opponent's color, is one of the most fun things I have experienced as a gamer.
On top of these great game mechanics, the campaign was lengthy enough, and with tons of humor, like in the intro cinematic. Another thing I remember about the game : when you were winning, the music accelerates, your units tell you to attack and finish it, and a woman voice starts telling you : "You are the best" and other nice things. But if you were losing the game, that same woman voice would start to insult you in a very withering manner. This was hilarious, but it actually contributed to a big adrenaline rush when finishing a game, so that every game left a big impression on you.
Z was a hell of a great game, but didn't leave that much of a legacy, and the financial problems suffered by The Bitmap Brothers didn't help I guess. In the end, I missed out on StarCraft because of those 2 games, but had a ton of fun meanwhile. And I came back to Blizzard RTS when they released Warcraft 3 a few years later.
Oh my god ... Warwind... This game was hard as fuck !
Z was a really good RTS too. Warwind was so complex... What's the sequel of that game ? If you like old RTS games try earth 2140,2150,2160 (for me earth 2150 is the best). Or Warzone 2100
If you count Bullfrog games like Dungeon Keeper or Theme hospital as RTS, you can count me as another "I was not playing Starcraft in 98". Though i played Starcraft demo for days. I remember there was 3 missions, i played the shit out of them.
I think i bought original starcraft like few years after.
On October 16 2013 17:59 nttea wrote: Would it be worth playing z today? It looks awesome!
Yes. But it can be trouble to makr it run on new systems. Bit with some google skills its not that big of a problem
I was mostly concerned about ui and if it's actually fun to play, i played dune2 a while ago and it was pretty much a pain in the ass having to click one unit at a time and the sound was awful and gameplay waay worse than i remembered. Would not recommend
On October 16 2013 17:59 nttea wrote: Would it be worth playing z today? It looks awesome!
Yes. But it can be trouble to makr it run on new systems. Bit with some google skills its not that big of a problem
I was mostly concerned about ui and if it's actually fun to play, i played dune2 a while ago and it was pretty much a pain in the ass having to click one unit at a time and the sound was awful and gameplay waay worse than i remembered. Would not recommend
Imo you should give Z sequel a chance, few years ago i wanted to make it work on W7 but failed but i guess nowadays it should be figured out. It was pretty awesome and challanging. Definitely different from Starcraft from what i remember.
It's in 3d and shouldnt be too clunky.
Total Annihilation is a no-brainer. But honestly the most fun SINGLE-PLAYER RTS for me was original C&C and RA 1995/1996 respectively. I played the shit out of them. And i loved the movies inbetween missions, and the whole story and Klepacki's music. Everyone should play the originals, sequels were much worse. Though RA2 and Tiberian Sun was ok, a specially Tiberian Sun because it had this weird "Mech" spin.
Original C&C was my first originally bought game, i remember dragging my dad to buy it. I remember making saves before finishing mission just to rewatch certain movies lol.
I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
On October 16 2013 17:59 nttea wrote: Would it be worth playing z today? It looks awesome!
I think it is really worth it, it still looks good like you say because it was a bit cartoony so it aged very well, and the gameplay is very easy to get into, while being hard to master.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
It came out in 2000...
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
On October 16 2013 17:59 nttea wrote: Would it be worth playing z today? It looks awesome!
I think it is really worth it, it still looks good like you say because it was a bit cartoony so it aged very well, and the gameplay is very easy to get into, while being hard to master.
It is an open-source remake of Z, I have not tried it yet, but it adds multiplayer, and should work without any setup pain on modern systems
Oh that is really cool !
Also i wanted to pointed out for TA fans that there was a project a long time ago with TA in 3D (it's called : Total annihilation spring) and it's REALLY good (and free) and you could even play FPS because you could enter and control units. FPS in a Krogoth was something !
On October 16 2013 17:59 nttea wrote: Would it be worth playing z today? It looks awesome!
I think it is really worth it, it still looks good like you say because it was a bit cartoony so it aged very well, and the gameplay is very easy to get into, while being hard to master.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
Oh that's sick!! I remember playing this game!!! I was only 8 or 9 at the time, but the sounds and the style take me straight back as if it were yesterday.
I wonder if it's made by the same devs as "MDK" (anyone remember those games??). The ricochet sounds, some of the animations and the music are very similar or the same.
Other classics I was playing then and still play occasionally now, are the Jedi Knight games, Caesar III, and Commandos. Caesar III is so hard and intricate that Caesar IV was an epic disappointment when it took 1 day to complete. I feel like there was a tendency to make games harder then. I play single player titles from 10 years ago and find myself thinking that's how it should be.
1 other classic I played then and still play now every day- BroodWar. A massive achievement.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
Oh that's sick!! I remember playing this game!!! I was only 8 or 9 at the time, but the sounds and the style take me straight back as if it were yesterday.
I wonder if it's made by the same devs as "MDK" (anyone remember those games??). The ricochet sounds, some of the animations and the music are very similar or the same.
Other classics I was playing then and still play occasionally now, are the Jedi Knight games, Caesar III, and Commandos. Caesar III is so hard and intricate that Caesar IV was an epic disappointment when it took 1 day to complete. I feel like there was a tendency to make games harder then. I play single player titles from 10 years ago and find myself thinking that's how it should be.
1 other classic I played then and still play now every day- BroodWar. A massive achievement.
One of my favorite games, while not RTS, also consumed my time when SC came out. Deadlock 2: Shrine Wars was one of the coolest games I had ever played. I only had the demo for the longest time, which capped a game at 15 turns or something like that, and I remember playing it so much that I would always try and find the most efficient way to blitz to high tech and make super units.
Another semi-RTS/RTT that I loved was the Close Combat series. The A Bridge Too Far demo was probably my most played game for a year before my Dad bought the entire series that Christmas.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
Oh that's sick!! I remember playing this game!!! I was only 8 or 9 at the time, but the sounds and the style take me straight back as if it were yesterday.
I wonder if it's made by the same devs as "MDK" (anyone remember those games??). The ricochet sounds, some of the animations and the music are very similar or the same.
Other classics I was playing then and still play occasionally now, are the Jedi Knight games, Caesar III, and Commandos. Caesar III is so hard and intricate that Caesar IV was an epic disappointment when it took 1 day to complete. I feel like there was a tendency to make games harder then. I play single player titles from 10 years ago and find myself thinking that's how it should be.
1 other classic I played then and still play now every day- BroodWar. A massive achievement.
I might have an original MDK disc somewhere...
Commandos... lol... the unfinishable game.
I recently bought commandos and it was awesome. I did finish it, but somehow didn't bother with the xp.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
Oh that's sick!! I remember playing this game!!! I was only 8 or 9 at the time, but the sounds and the style take me straight back as if it were yesterday.
I wonder if it's made by the same devs as "MDK" (anyone remember those games??). The ricochet sounds, some of the animations and the music are very similar or the same.
Other classics I was playing then and still play occasionally now, are the Jedi Knight games, Caesar III, and Commandos. Caesar III is so hard and intricate that Caesar IV was an epic disappointment when it took 1 day to complete. I feel like there was a tendency to make games harder then. I play single player titles from 10 years ago and find myself thinking that's how it should be.
1 other classic I played then and still play now every day- BroodWar. A massive achievement.
I might have an original MDK disc somewhere...
Commandos... lol... the unfinishable game.
I recently bought commandos and it was awesome. I did finish it, but somehow didn't bother with the xp.
I'm quite impressed. I did half the game and it was soooo hard.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
Oh that's sick!! I remember playing this game!!! I was only 8 or 9 at the time, but the sounds and the style take me straight back as if it were yesterday.
I wonder if it's made by the same devs as "MDK" (anyone remember those games??). The ricochet sounds, some of the animations and the music are very similar or the same.
Other classics I was playing then and still play occasionally now, are the Jedi Knight games, Caesar III, and Commandos. Caesar III is so hard and intricate that Caesar IV was an epic disappointment when it took 1 day to complete. I feel like there was a tendency to make games harder then. I play single player titles from 10 years ago and find myself thinking that's how it should be.
1 other classic I played then and still play now every day- BroodWar. A massive achievement.
I might have an original MDK disc somewhere...
Commandos... lol... the unfinishable game.
I recently bought commandos and it was awesome. I did finish it, but somehow didn't bother with the xp.
I'm quite impressed. I did half the game and it was soooo hard.
Well to be honest, half the time I didn't "play" the game but stared at the screen to find out which of the guards was the weak link in the chain. the other half was reloading b/c I got it wrong It's quite a test of patience.
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
Oh that's sick!! I remember playing this game!!! I was only 8 or 9 at the time, but the sounds and the style take me straight back as if it were yesterday.
I wonder if it's made by the same devs as "MDK" (anyone remember those games??). The ricochet sounds, some of the animations and the music are very similar or the same.
Other classics I was playing then and still play occasionally now, are the Jedi Knight games, Caesar III, and Commandos. Caesar III is so hard and intricate that Caesar IV was an epic disappointment when it took 1 day to complete. I feel like there was a tendency to make games harder then. I play single player titles from 10 years ago and find myself thinking that's how it should be.
1 other classic I played then and still play now every day- BroodWar. A massive achievement.
I might have an original MDK disc somewhere...
Commandos... lol... the unfinishable game.
I recently bought commandos and it was awesome. I did finish it, but somehow didn't bother with the xp.
I'm quite impressed. I did half the game and it was soooo hard.
Well to be honest, half the time I didn't "play" the game but stared at the screen to find out which of the guards was the weak link in the chain. the other half was reloading b/c I got it wrong It's quite a test of patience.
I have the patience to.. try to get into a ventilation grid in Deus ex like 2 times, fail 2 time. Hit reload. Start shooting with rocket launcher... So that's surely why i find commando impossible :p
On October 16 2013 18:21 Gowerly wrote: I skipped SC to play Total Annihilation. However, Z was one of my favourite games of the time, as well. Telling a unit with low health/low tech to attack one of higher status was cleverly done, too, with the units suggesting "You're Joking?!" The multiple ways to win (entering the castle or just blowing it up from outside range) was great. The way the units were generated, the way you could set up static defenses as well as blow up/repair the factories to hinder your opponent, it was all really well done and, as far as I'm aware, the best non-resource collecting RTS there has been.
Ground Control was quite a good non-ressource collecting RTS too. But you needed a Fin powerfull computer that costed so much at this time.
OMG Ground control, i remember spending all my money on it and i never, ever regretted it. It had the MOST amazing graphics of any RTS. Only Homeworld would compare. You could zoom in so close that you could see bullet SHELLS coming out of marine guns and tanks.
I would also say that Sacriface and Battlezone were amazing hybrid FPS/TPP/RTS games. But yea saying they were RTS would be quite a stretch regardless one of the best games ever.
Oh that's sick!! I remember playing this game!!! I was only 8 or 9 at the time, but the sounds and the style take me straight back as if it were yesterday.
I wonder if it's made by the same devs as "MDK" (anyone remember those games??). The ricochet sounds, some of the animations and the music are very similar or the same.
Other classics I was playing then and still play occasionally now, are the Jedi Knight games, Caesar III, and Commandos. Caesar III is so hard and intricate that Caesar IV was an epic disappointment when it took 1 day to complete. I feel like there was a tendency to make games harder then. I play single player titles from 10 years ago and find myself thinking that's how it should be.
1 other classic I played then and still play now every day- BroodWar. A massive achievement.
I might have an original MDK disc somewhere...
Commandos... lol... the unfinishable game.
I recently bought commandos and it was awesome. I did finish it, but somehow didn't bother with the xp.
I'm quite impressed. I did half the game and it was soooo hard.
Well to be honest, half the time I didn't "play" the game but stared at the screen to find out which of the guards was the weak link in the chain. the other half was reloading b/c I got it wrong It's quite a test of patience.
I have the patience to.. try to get into a ventilation grid in Deus ex like 2 times, fail 2 time. Hit reload. Start shooting with rocket launcher... So that's surely why i find commando impossible :p
Deus Ex. oh my. . . I didn't have the patience for that. I'm stuck in a ventilation shaft in that headquarter you see in the intro. A friend told me I'm just halfway through. unfortunately I threw away the rocket launcher b/c I'm so stealthy . . . big mistake. it's a really looooooong game.
On October 17 2013 04:03 Velr wrote: There was also KKND (1!) .
Z and Battlezone were pure awesome.
Also an often forgotten classic is Homeworld (thanks to being space/3d this aged really well).
Ah, Homeworld, the first 3-axes RTS. Game fucking blew my mind when I was 10. The fact you could position yourself BELOW or ABOVE your enemies and see lance batteries and missile impacts made it the coolest fucking game. Sadly, I didn't think Homeworld 2 lived up to the legacy.
Another rarely spoken of RTS, while not so old, was the game Perimeter. Seriously had one of the dopest mechanics of any game I've played. Terraforming, unit morphing, nanotech - shit was cray.
You could set a group of units to automatically find enemies to harass and come back for repairs when damaged. Waypoints for patrolling, units that could turn into doodads for scouting, artillery with half-map range, a unit that shoots an infantry unit to turn it invincible for a short while (it just falls apart later), the fast-moving infantry shredder, mechanics to repair vehicles, so many fun and innovative things.
I played Z too...that was an awesome game! You could also snipe enemy players out of their tanks using sniper infantry, then take command of them. And what was great about snipers was their intelligence meant they controlled tanks really effectively and dodged enemy tank shots, making light tanks really long-lasting.
I loved the cinematics too. I'm not sure if I ever actually beat that game...I vaguely recall finishing it, but having major major problems on one level called parking lot or something. Back when I was a kid of course.
And then there was Battlezone. Man those were the golden years of PC gaming, so many great memories, only a select few of the games today come close to recreating the joy I felt back then.
Haha Z. Great game indeed. It had a lot of luck factor involved too - like simple solders blasting a driver of tank wtf? why did you open the vault, lol. If I remember correctly a soldier could have been eaten by a crocodile when swimming in water. Nice gimmicks. Multiplayer could be nice, always wanted to try that out... Also I find the cartoonish graphics strangely appealing, even today.
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